I think if you're a grown up, you shouldn't have to worry about things like how to not stomp newbies.

There's a difference between losing and getting stomped. Getting stomped is seldom going to be enjoyable for anyone and is unlikely to do much to encourage someone to try the game again let alone buy it.

So the goal is to help them become comfortable with the game, and enjoy playing it.

Yes but, we're acting like there is some kind of barrier to that when really there isn't. Any normal adult will recognize the social implications of gaming and act accordingly. If they can't or won't, then there is hardly a discussion since we as the motivators for change will simply move on.

A single Z is not going to help a novice against a standard competitive list

That is sooo true.

But I suggested 12 points for the experience, and another 12 if the vet is taking a competitive list.

With 24 points there's quite a lot you could do. A TLT Y-Wing for example would be a welcome addition as would a royal guard interceptor with auto thrusters.

They don't have to put the points towards ships, they could buy hull upgrades for 4 ships if they wanted.

/shrug it's what works for me when I play newbies.

A single Z is not going to help a novice against a standard competitive list

I agree, giving someone more ships their first few games are not going to help if anything it would hinder them.

If I were to handicap myself in list building it would be by having less than 100 points.

Yes but, we're acting like there is some kind of barrier to that when really there isn't.

No we're not acting like that, we're discussing methods, tricks and tactics to make it easier to ensure the newbie has both an enjoyable experience and learns how to better play the game.

If you don't think this is something that is worth discussing then you should simply avoid the thread.

if they dont have fun they arent going to want to learn more about the game.

Show me 1 person that has fun getting stomped every single game. Marginal losses are still good games, doing 2-5 damage before being tabled is not a good game.

the problem with limiting yourself point-wise, if you're undisciplined , is you can reach over for a pair of aces in like the 66 point range and still make life hell for new players

really, just stick to 100 points and the less complex ships in the same. Rebels are ideal with X-wings and B-wings and even T-70s (apart from, arguably, the talon roll) placing solid emphasis on the dial and basic dice rolling modifications than something like soontir.

Afterwards, you build up to the rest of what the game has to offer.

As long as you avoid anything too steamroll capable (ala Crackswarm) and anything too complex, you will have a new player friendly list that you can try and win with

I would start with a rules manual scenario, so I can show the narrative element of the game, and just be hyped to be spreading the addiction.

I would play to win, but if the person (of any age) was struggling I'd help them out some.

Okay guys, this all sounds great but...

What are we teaching five year old kids here? I mean, these are all noble ideals and great ideas for procedure, but it sounds like you're going to be teaching children with strategies such as these. Gentle reminders? Being considerate of feelings? The last time I taught someone how to play X-Wing they were a grown adult and if I'd had to act like such a milksop as described here, I'd have given up.

I think if you're a grown up, you shouldn't have to worry about things like how to not stomp newbies. If other grown ups can't handle losing while they gain experience then I don't want to bother with them.

You clearly either didn't bother to read or fail to understand the majority of posts on here. It's not about people not being able to handle losing, it's about making sure the other person is able to learn. It's about letting them figure things out without overwhelming them with every single possible trick out there. There will be plenty of time for that, but we must all learn to walk before we can run.

Just as an example, imagine if Obi-Wan, instead of having Luke train on the remote, had pulled out his own lightsaber, told Luke to come at him, and then simply cut him down. Not only would the series have been much shorter, but Luke wouldn't have learned anything and Obi-Wan would come off as somewhat of a sadistic jerk. (Though now I'm picturing him in some weird version of the Monty Python "Defending Yourself Against Fresh Fruit" sketch. XD)

Earlier I did say that I thought the whole idea was a little off the mark. Stomping newbies isn't really a thing. Idiots might try to ruin your day by being poor sports, but if you're playing a game with someone and they beat you badly because of their vastly greater experience just try and remember that right? They won because they're really good at the game, not because they're trying to embarrass you. Unless they are, but then that problem is easy to solve right?

Also, we're playing a dice game, there's a pretty good chance that might influence things.

You know for once FGD might just have this one in the bag. I think he's summed it all up quite nicely. Play by the rules and use generics.

Also... what if Obi Wan had given Han a stick and said 'hit him until he learns'... Hey, then what? Vader would have had a real fight on his hands then!

edit: Okay bad example, Han would have given Chewie the stick. Pick your teachers wisely.

If it's a brand new player, there will be a couple things that I do. First, I'll remind them when they forget to do stuff like pick an action or use Han's reroll ability. Second is I won't penalize them for taking a risk and making a critical mistake, the biggest of which would be if they accidentally fly off the map, I'll let them keep their ship. And the last thing I usually do is take the opportunity to fly a much more experimental list to see how the mechanics of it work out.

Things that I won't do because they prevent you from learning the game is give them any advice about list building, unless they've done something like put Juke on Youngster thinking it would transfer to other TIEs. I won't help them with their maneuvers either, because the only way to learn how not to hit rocks is to hit a bunch of rocks. Same goes with bumping ships in formation.

I was lucky in that I had a group of friends who all started playing at the same time, so we all learned together. After all of our games we still talk it over and have the "Did we screw up any rules?" conversation.

Extreme mistakes like assigning the wrong direction on their dial thus going off the edge i'll let them go the correct way once and remind them that direction is just as important as speed.

Its one thing if they never experienced the issue, its another to let them get away with it every time. If i lose because i did something incredibly stupid like fly off the board (done it....) i know why i lost and i have a very active thought about NOT doing that again.

i also wouldnt let them shoot if they land on a rock. Biggest risk you take if you try to cut a corner around a rock is losing your shot. Often i'll get some of the newer players watching me skirt around rocks by the skin of my teeth and they always wonder how i can pull that off: and i just answer "trial and error, ive lost a LOT of shots trying to figure out when and where i can do this" - which is why i always bring rocks because i rarely hit them (except with a 3bank.. F THAT 3 BANK!! lol) and alot of the "pro players" bring debris so they can not care about it. Caught them so many times completely ignoring that its a rock, land on it intentionally for a range1 shot, and try to roll dice to attack only to flip out when i remind them "thats a rock ... cant attack... also he isnt stressed so no wired" lol.

Flying straight is one of the biggest strengths you can develop in this game. You learn how to do that by seeing how close you can cut the corners without denting your ship, and you figure that out by denting it a few times.