I know myself I'd rather deal with Dengar late game, rather than have to deal with him early on.

I know with what I fly I'd out PS his wife, so I'd ignore him.

Let him shoot, better than his possible two attacks anyway and she should drop fast.

After which Dengar with Zuckuss will become a lot less useful

So the list is this...

Dengar (Lone Wolf, Zuckuss, R5-P8, Glitterstim, Countermeasures, Punishing One title)

Manaroo (PTL, Recon Specialist, Unhinged Astromech, Feedback Array, Engine Upgrade)

99 points

... right?

Pretty much. It can vary though. I've seen versions with Gonk on Manaroo do well. Also, I think R5-P8 is much much worse than Overclocked R4. With Overclocked R4, as long as Manaroo is around, Dengar gets unlimited glitterstim.

The idea of the list is to keep Manaroo out of the battle, force the opponent to go for Dengar who, with his insane amount of mods, can tank a tooooon of stuff, and wreck face.

OK, yeah Overclocked R4 would be solid. I forgot Plasma Torpedoes on Dengar to bring it to 99 points.

I know myself I'd rather deal with Dengar late game, rather than have to deal with him early on.

I know with what I fly I'd out PS his wife, so I'd ignore him.

Let him shoot, better than his possible two attacks anyway and she should drop fast.

After which Dengar with Zuckuss will become a lot less useful

Out-PS her, sure, but can you catch her? She's got 3-speed green maneuvers, PtL, and boost and barrel roll. That's a lot of ground covered. Meanwhile, Dengar swoops in and positions himself (another large base) to keep you away from his wife.

This list has to be called Dengaroo, right?

Mangar?

The Love Boats?

You win. This hsould definitely be the name of the list.

you all lose. its W-boats (double-u Boats)

wait hold-up... Dunkaroos, because who doesn't love those **** snacks.

dengar will protect his waifu at all costs

waifuboats

So the list is this...

Dengar (Lone Wolf, Zuckuss, R5-P8, Glitterstim, Countermeasures, Punishing One title)

Manaroo (PTL, Recon Specialist, Unhinged Astromech, Feedback Array, Engine Upgrade)

99 points

... right?

That is a version of the list, and certainly the first, as Jeff has already been doing exceptionally well at Regionals with it. The fundamental backbone is:

(88 points)

Dengar + Punishing One + Lone Wolf + Zuckuss + Counter-Measures + Glitterstim (53)

Manaroo + PtL + Unhinged + Engine Upgrade (35)

From there you can customize it. The first branch is either going with the PainBot on Dengar (as Jeff has), vs Overclocked R4 instead. With Overclocked R4 you don't need Recon Spec on Manaroo, so you can do something different with her crew slot instead. OCR4 has obvious synergy because once you have Zuckuss crew, adding more stress doesn't matter, so it's essentially infinite Glitterstim, and Lone Wolf to reroll 1 blank. I don't really like Gonk on Manaroo, because by the time you want to use it to put shields back, you are better off using your 1 available action to reposition anyway.

I have been messing around with this version:

(100 points)

Dengar + Punishing One + Lone Wolf + Zuckuss + Counter-Measures + Glitterstim + Plasma Torpedoes + OCR4 (57)

Manaroo + PtL + Unhinged + Engine Upgrade + Plasma Torpedoes + K4 Security Droid (43)

Glitterstim is really just insurance if Manaroo bumps. It's almost worth dropping completely to have a 98 point initiative bid, but it can be really nice. K4 security droid to TL, then focus for your action, don't PtL, pass both to Dengar, and have 1 stress to activate Glitterstim.

Dengar's jousting numbers are absolutely bonkers. Assuming he gets infinite focus, and doubles his damage output via his ability, he's worth >100 points just in raw dice relative to a wave 5 meta. That's before considering:

• he's PS9
• he has a turret
• he has a plasma torpedo
• he has Counter-Measures

So the list is this...

Dengar (Lone Wolf, Zuckuss, R5-P8, Glitterstim, Countermeasures, Punishing One title)

Manaroo (PTL, Recon Specialist, Unhinged Astromech, Feedback Array, Engine Upgrade)

99 points

... right?

That is a version of the list, and certainly the first, as Jeff has already been doing exceptionally well at Regionals with it. The fundamental backbone is:

(88 points)

Dengar + Punishing One + Lone Wolf + Zuckuss + Counter-Measures + Glitterstim (53)

Manaroo + PtL + Unhinged + Engine Upgrade (35)

From there you can customize it. The first branch is either going with the PainBot on Dengar (as Jeff has), vs Overclocked R4 instead. With Overclocked R4 you don't need Recon Spec on Manaroo, so you can do something different with her crew slot instead. OCR4 has obvious synergy because once you have Zuckuss crew, adding more stress doesn't matter, so it's essentially infinite Glitterstim, and Lone Wolf to reroll 1 blank. I don't really like Gonk on Manaroo, because by the time you want to use it to put shields back, you are better off using your 1 available action to reposition anyway.

I have been messing around with this version:

(100 points)

Dengar + Punishing One + Lone Wolf + Zuckuss + Counter-Measures + Glitterstim + Plasma Torpedoes + OCR4 (57)

Manaroo + PtL + Unhinged + Engine Upgrade + Plasma Torpedoes + K4 Security Droid (43)

Glitterstim is really just insurance if Manaroo bumps.

Dengar's jousting numbers are absolutely bonkers. Assuming he gets infinite focus, and doubles his damage output via his ability, he's worth >100 points just in raw dice relative to a wave 5 meta. That's before considering:

• he's PS9
• he has a turret
• he has a plasma torpedo
• he has Counter-Measures

I'm curious how the turret vs assuming h doubles his damage output via his ability relate to each other. How much does the turret add to efficiency as you lower the amount he actually gets to use his ability? Since if he's 100% using the ability he gains nothing from the turret, but if he's 100% using the turret out of arc, he doesn't get his ability.

I'm curious how the turret vs assuming h doubles his damage output via his ability relate to each other. How much does the turret add to efficiency as you lower the amount he actually gets to use his ability? Since if he's 100% using the ability he gains nothing from the turret, but if he's 100% using the turret out of arc, he doesn't get his ability.

As far as computing the raw jousting numbers go, the turret doesn't directly affect the numbers unless you can use it to change a ship's firing rate, which I didn't do here. So the turret is an extra freebie that doesn't help his numbers, but it certainly doesn't hurt them either. He's obviously still better off with a turret than without one.

Modeling Dengar's ability is complicated. Some practical results are:

• it doubles his damage (he will attack twice instead of once)
• it doesn't do anything to change his damage (he never has ships in arc)
• it MORE than doubles his damage, as the defender will have less tokens after the 2nd attack, making it even deadlier than the first (especially with Zuckuss)
• The opposing side doesn't attack Dengar occasionally, so as not to trigger his ability -- in this case Dengar's attack power doesn't go up, but his durability does instead.

In reality some combination of all of the above will happen, and there is no trivial way to calculate his jousting numbers as a result. I use the simplistic "simply double Dengar's attack output" as a baseline, knowing that it can and will vary in most games. However the net effect of Dengar's ability (in conjunction with infinite focus) is generally to roughly double his combat effectiveness, through a combination of higher damage output and greater survivability, so it turns out to be a very good baseline. It also says that Dengar can basically solo a 100-point non-alpha strike list and be projected to win, so long as Manaroo is elsewhere on the board feeding the infinite glitterstim. If you have played the list a few times then it should quickly become evident that this is indeed the case.

1. The list is definitely called dengaroo. There's 2 variants flown by the rook squad.

Version 1. Has r5p8 on dengar and recon on manaroo. It absolutely eats other ships for breakfast. This was the one that took 2nd at MI Regionals, won the Ohio regional and 2nd at nationals. It also had a great showing at nationals and Ohio Regionals by other rook squad players like Eric B and Ben F.

The second version has over clocked agro mech on dengar and Gonk on manaroo. This one like was previously stated has infinite glitterstim for dengar.

The second version has over clocked agro mech on dengar and Gonk on manaroo. This one like was previously stated has infinite glitterstim for dengar.

That's the version I fly, and was first after the Swiss rounds at Nationals. Then lost in top 8.

So the list is this...

Dengar (Lone Wolf, Zuckuss, R5-P8, Glitterstim, Countermeasures, Punishing One title)

Manaroo (PTL, Recon Specialist, Unhinged Astromech, Feedback Array, Engine Upgrade)

99 points

... right?

Pretty much. It can vary though. I've seen versions with Gonk on Manaroo do well. Also, I think R5-P8 is much much worse than Overclocked R4. With Overclocked R4, as long as Manaroo is around, Dengar gets unlimited glitterstim.

The idea of the list is to keep Manaroo out of the battle, force the opponent to go for Dengar who, with his insane amount of mods, can tank a tooooon of stuff, and wreck face.

OK, yeah Overclocked R4 would be solid. I forgot Plasma Torpedoes on Dengar to bring it to 99 points.

That's the main division between Jeff B's original version of the list and Serrate's variant (Jeff's friend and fellow Rook Squad member). Jeff prefers R598 on Dengar to help with Palp-Aces, while Serrate prefers Overclocked for infinite Focus which is better against swarms. Both are solid lists, Serrate was Top 8 at Origins and Jeff was Runner-Up, and they both did well at the Ohio Regional (Jeff won the event). A risk of the Overclocked version is that you're more vulnerable to things like Wes Jansen and Palob, who can take Dengar from infinite Focus to zero Focus once Glitterstim is gone. Also, without R5-P8, it can be harder to win the attrition war against Palp Aces since all the Focus in the world don't necessarily speed up damage output against them. The perk, though, is Serrate's version gains Gonk on Manaroo, which can help her survive in the end game better.

They are both good lists, but I prefer the R5P8 original version.

This list has to be called Dengaroo, right?

Mangar?

The Love Boats?

You win. This hsould definitely be the name of the list.

you all lose. its W-boats (double-u Boats)

wait hold-up... Dunkaroos, because who doesn't love those **** snacks.

W-boats is pretty clever. I admit I had to have it explained. Love Boats is pretty good. The reason I went for Dengaroo is because it also sounds like kangaroo and they gave Dengar an Australian-ish accent in The Clone Wars. Probably a bit of a stretch on that one, though.

Is countermeasure so important in the list? Wouldn't an engine upgrade (and a different approach to the match, ie no use of zuckuss) be more helpful agaisnt triple jumps?

Is countermeasure so important in the list? Wouldn't an engine upgrade (and a different approach to the match, ie no use of zuckuss) be more helpful agaisnt triple jumps?

if I had to guess, it's due to being focused out the ass and back

not in my case ofc, 2 or 3 agility still may as well be 0

So the list is this...

Dengar (Lone Wolf, Zuckuss, R5-P8, Glitterstim, Countermeasures, Punishing One title)

Manaroo (PTL, Recon Specialist, Unhinged Astromech, Feedback Array, Engine Upgrade)

99 points

... right?

That is a version of the list, and certainly the first, as Jeff has already been doing exceptionally well at Regionals with it. The fundamental backbone is:

(88 points)

Dengar + Punishing One + Lone Wolf + Zuckuss + Counter-Measures + Glitterstim (53)

Manaroo + PtL + Unhinged + Engine Upgrade (35)

From there you can customize it. The first branch is either going with the PainBot on Dengar (as Jeff has), vs Overclocked R4 instead. With Overclocked R4 you don't need Recon Spec on Manaroo, so you can do something different with her crew slot instead. OCR4 has obvious synergy because once you have Zuckuss crew, adding more stress doesn't matter, so it's essentially infinite Glitterstim, and Lone Wolf to reroll 1 blank. I don't really like Gonk on Manaroo, because by the time you want to use it to put shields back, you are better off using your 1 available action to reposition anyway.

I have been messing around with this version:

(100 points)

Dengar + Punishing One + Lone Wolf + Zuckuss + Counter-Measures + Glitterstim + Plasma Torpedoes + OCR4 (57)

Manaroo + PtL + Unhinged + Engine Upgrade + Plasma Torpedoes + K4 Security Droid (43)

Glitterstim is really just insurance if Manaroo bumps. It's almost worth dropping completely to have a 98 point initiative bid, but it can be really nice. K4 security droid to TL, then focus for your action, don't PtL, pass both to Dengar, and have 1 stress to activate Glitterstim.

Dengar's jousting numbers are absolutely bonkers. Assuming he gets infinite focus, and doubles his damage output via his ability, he's worth >100 points just in raw dice relative to a wave 5 meta. That's before considering:

• he's PS9
• he has a turret
• he has a plasma torpedo
• he has Counter-Measures

Its just a small sample size and there are lots of variables but Jeff did better than Bryan with the pain bot than the OCR4.

On an indirectly related note, are we getting to the competitive point that we are taking the MtG approach of "teams" which show to tournaments running the same list/deck which they have put in heavy play testing with? Seems Nova (or at least the Howard brothers), Jeff's crew, Mynock, and so on seem to be taking this approach now.

Not a fan of the game turning that way, but I assume it was inevitable.

Is countermeasure so important in the list? Wouldn't an engine upgrade (and a different approach to the match, ie no use of zuckuss) be more helpful agaisnt triple jumps?

If you're considering dropping Zuckuss, then you're missing the entire point of this list.

Countermeasures isn't just an extra agility, it's probably multiple agility because you're going to be shot at by multiple things. With your double focus tokens/Glitterstim/infinite focus if you're using the Overclocked version that extra evade die is probably going to block an extra damage. Naked green dice have 3 of their 8 sides as evades, if you count focuses as evades that jumps to 5 sides out of 8.

So it's going to save you health, and that's not counting the TL ditch it can do, which helps a little against Omega Leaders, Vaders, TL dependant ordnance carriers, etc. Anything that can TL, even preventing Whisper from being allowed to use her FCS lock for a turn (unless gunner, of course).

Here is the version I have been flying:

Dengar + P1 Title + Lone Wolf + Overclocked R4 + Zuckuss + Plasma + Counter Measures + Glitterstim

Manaroo + Push the Limit + Gonk + R5P8 + Feedback + Engine

Its 98pts for a decent init bid. I prefer to have Overclocked R4 on Dengar because I find myself in many situations I want 3 or 4 focuses for defense and attack. I put revenge bot on Manaroo instead. It is so good it is hard not to play it. Unhinged on Manaroo is awesome but I found that I can usually make due without it.

You always save glitterstim to bail Dengar out for a turn. Ideally save it for when Manaroo goes down. Lone Wolf is still a pseudo action on offense and defense. So he is not completely screwed.

The worst matchup would probably be some form of triple scouts with a proton and boba crew. Dengar losing his title or overclocked would suck. You can lose a match and still win the tourney though .

Can confirm Boba proton torps totally suck and if they hit dengar can completely ruin the game for us.

On an indirectly related note, are we getting to the competitive point that we are taking the MtG approach of "teams" which show to tournaments running the same list/deck which they have put in heavy play testing with? Seems Nova (or at least the Howard brothers), Jeff's crew, Mynock, and so on seem to be taking this approach now.

Not a fan of the game turning that way, but I assume it was inevitable.

How does the OCR4 create infinite focus on Dengar?

How does the OCR4 create infinite focus on Dengar?

Manaroo passes a Focus at start of combat, then Dengar uses the OCR4 every time he spends it.

How does the OCR4 create infinite focus on Dengar?

Overclocked let's you add a stress to regain a focus after spending one. Dengar doesn't care about stress since he is getting his actions from manaroo.

On an indirectly related note, are we getting to the competitive point that we are taking the MtG approach of "teams" which show to tournaments running the same list/deck which they have put in heavy play testing with? Seems Nova (or at least the Howard brothers), Jeff's crew, Mynock, and so on seem to be taking this approach now.

Not a fan of the game turning that way, but I assume it was inevitable.

What's wrong with that?

There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with it. I just prefer players play with lists they have constructed fully on their own. It's not a realistic expectation, but something I like to see.