I played about 25 battles in Store Tournaments and one Warsaw Regional using triple Imperial Aces list. But people started to field so much anti-ace things that it forced me to look for some other squad build.

I thought that Rebels are dead and buried in current meta but I must admit I changed my mind - given recent results and thinking about possible lists I think Rebel got two "perfect" ships for this meta:

1) Biggs Darklighter

2) Wes Janson

Take those two and complete a rooster with some heavy hitter for around 40 points (Possible picks: VCX-100, Ten Numb, Farlander, Miranda and Corran) and you basically got really competitive list.

What is more awesome is that those two guys fly in iconic X-Wing!

What do you think? Maybe I am too optimistic about it?

Maybe a bit too optimistic. Wes isn't bad against Palpaces, but Biggs kind of is. Pair the two with some anti-ace tech and you are at a risk of losing the damage to constest U-Boats.

I agree that Rebels have more potential than is used right now, but their options are hard to use for a change (even Dash needs to work with all the ace matchups).

It is true that many rebels builds have been pushed out of the meta because of the great number of Palp aces and U-boats out there. While either of those lists are easily countered by rebels, few rebel lists are good against both.

That does not mean, however, that rebels have no tools at all left in their arsenal. The A-Wing swarm is a good example of how rebels have adapted to the new meta. It has won at least two regionals and placed top 8 in Naboo.

Biggs and Wes are great against U-boats, but I am not sure they can handle aces. The third ship in the list will have to specialize in that. Ten or Keyan are not recommended. Miranda could be good, but she would need Advanced slam and a couple of bombs to deal with aces, and then she runs way over 40 points. Corran is also too expensive for that slot.

It is true that many rebels builds have been pushed out of the meta because of the great number of Palp aces and U-boats out there. While either of those lists are easily countered by rebels, few rebel lists are good against both.

That does not mean, however, that rebels have no tools at all left in their arsenal. The A-Wing swarm is a good example of how rebels have adapted to the new meta. It has won at least two regionals and placed top 8 in Naboo.

Biggs and Wes are great against U-boats, but I am not sure they can handle aces. The third ship in the list will have to specialize in that. Ten or Keyan are not recommended. Miranda could be good, but she would need Advanced slam and a couple of bombs to deal with aces, and then she runs way over 40 points. Corran is also too expensive for that slot.

Is he? wasn't one of the Rebel Regional wins Corran/Biggs/Wes?

Two wins, and a very similar list was runner up at a European Regional, I think.

It is true that many rebels builds have been pushed out of the meta because of the great number of Palp aces and U-boats out there. While either of those lists are easily countered by rebels, few rebel lists are good against both.

That does not mean, however, that rebels have no tools at all left in their arsenal. The A-Wing swarm is a good example of how rebels have adapted to the new meta. It has won at least two regionals and placed top 8 in Naboo.

Biggs and Wes are great against U-boats, but I am not sure they can handle aces. The third ship in the list will have to specialize in that. Ten or Keyan are not recommended. Miranda could be good, but she would need Advanced slam and a couple of bombs to deal with aces, and then she runs way over 40 points. Corran is also too expensive for that slot.

Is he? wasn't one of the Rebel Regional wins Corran/Biggs/Wes?

As far as I know, it won two and place second in a third.

It's not even hard to see why. Biggs and Wes shuts down U-boats while Wes and Corran have great anti Ace potential. I don't know how it fares against crack-swarms, But i suspect Biggs helps here as well. The list is entirely a product of the current meta, and it will probably fall apart with the next change, but right now it is doing pretty good. I'm just glad to see that the T-65 still has potential.

What do you think? Maybe I am too optimistic about it?

You're not, its a good list.

It has slight issues with Palp Aces but nothing good flying and sacrifices to the dice gods can't fix

Corran Wes and Biggs came second in Vic regionals

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/222997-victoria-regionals/

didn't get to see the final match but I hear it was a lucky 1 shotting of corran from whisper that stoped it from winning.

It is true that many rebels builds have been pushed out of the meta because of the great number of Palp aces and U-boats out there. While either of those lists are easily countered by rebels, few rebel lists are good against both.

That does not mean, however, that rebels have no tools at all left in their arsenal. The A-Wing swarm is a good example of how rebels have adapted to the new meta. It has won at least two regionals and placed top 8 in Naboo.

Biggs and Wes are great against U-boats, but I am not sure they can handle aces. The third ship in the list will have to specialize in that. Ten or Keyan are not recommended. Miranda could be good, but she would need Advanced slam and a couple of bombs to deal with aces, and then she runs way over 40 points. Corran is also too expensive for that slot.

Is he? wasn't one of the Rebel Regional wins Corran/Biggs/Wes?

As far as I know, it won two and place second in a third.

Exactly. And this list made me think about possible solutions that Rebels can find for a current meta.

In my opinion good alternative in this list for Corran is VCX-100. With Tactical Jammer it can make Biggs bigger pain in the butt, also it is immune to obnoxious Vader crew card.

Of course there are another set of problems to list like this, mainly that it uses awful looking Ghost ship, which I personally hate.

I think Rebels have the tools. You need to practice and develop strategies that work against various lists. If you practice a lot, you will develop strategies and hone the list down. I don't think they are doomed.

I just brought Dhars's Corran/Biggs/Wes to the Kashyyk open and I reached the top 8 with it, after going undefeated during the day 1.

The list is nuts. It has a good matchup against Imperial Aces and Wes is a great asset against almost any kind of list. Jumpmasters are though opponents but they need to play perfectly otherwise Corran is very likely to do his magics.

I don't think rebels have many options in this meta, but this particular build is crazy good

I'm thinking of trying to play 4 Y-Wings with Targeting Astromech and Dorsal turret. 3 Y-Wings will have Title. Against Jumpmaster i might work as a cake walk. Aces however, hard yet not impossible. If all 4 Y-Wings get to shoot I counted somewhere around 16 red dice 4 x 4 = 16.

I'm thinking of trying to play 4 Y-Wings with Targeting Astromech and Dorsal turret. 3 Y-Wings will have Title. Against Jumpmaster i might work as a cake walk. Aces however, hard yet not impossible. If all 4 Y-Wings get to shoot I counted somewhere around 16 red dice 4 x 4 = 16.

You would have to use grays, otherwise it is very likely the the Boats will alpha one before it gets to shoot.

ive been running this list lately and its just brutal if you can fly right. Its also an oddball list so most people arent used to it. Unfamiliar territory is usually a better weapon than a 5die attack...hmm..about that lol

Keyan Farlander (29)

Intimidation (2)

Adv Proton Torps (6)

Extra Muns (2)

Ion Cannon (3)

Adv Sensors (3)

B-wing/E2 (1)

Zeb Orrelios (1)

Lt Blount (17)

Vet Instincts (1)

Ion Pulse Missile (3)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Adaptability (0)

R7-T1 (3)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 100

Keyan is a Bumper-Wing. He cant benefit from his own intimidation sadly due to the wording of Zeb but he WANTS to slam into people because then he can hit them at range1 and make his allies hit harder, particularly wedge. Adv Sensors before reveal, do targetlock, reveal red move that causes bump, get stressed, fire Adv Proton Torps w/ a "focus" it freakin HURTS i absolutely wrecked both Dengar and Chopper doing this. Havnt had a chance against aces yet.

Wedge's build is basically a bareboned ace in the hole type attack. Anything he attacks that Keyan is touching is -2 agility, so even if he didnt sneak range1 from R7-T1 he still hits really **** hard. I purposely keep him trailing behind 2-3 distance before the bump, it usually keeps him from being targetlocked and when its his turn he just boosts forward for range1 w/ a targetlock. Adaptability is twofold: both to go after PS9 guys OR fire after Blount in case i see a Stealth Device user, so i can automatically strip that with Blount's ability before Wedge shoots. Since Adapt goes off when i deploy, i can control that perfectly.

Blount is a total **** in this. He draws a lot of attention because of that missile, people like to try and get him before he shoots it. It guarantees whatever i bumped with Keyan bumps 1 more time. I got it off on Chopper and slammed him with 2 Adv Proton Torps (3-4 hits, rest crits) because of that ion lol. The funnier thing is i gave him literally every anti-mobility crit so he couldnt move other than green bank turns...bump for a 3rd turn lol

Keyan's ion is basically in case i see a small ship at a distance i can setup for a bump, and really nowhere else for the points since i actually need adapt on wedge. Its already won me at least 1 battle because of it lol so im not getting rid of it. Once i found out Keyan can spend his stress even if he rolled no focus, this list got nasty. You simply cannot get away from his adv proton torps unless you can explode him first and ive yet to have him die early on.

Exactly. And this list made me think about possible solutions that Rebels can find for a current meta.

In my opinion good alternative in this list for Corran is VCX-100. With Tactical Jammer it can make Biggs bigger pain in the butt, also it is immune to obnoxious Vader crew card.

Of course there are another set of problems to list like this, mainly that it uses awful looking Ghost ship, which I personally hate.

Hate to disappoint you, but I just flew almost exactly the list you're considering in Krakow regionals last weekend. I had Biggs with R4-D6, Wes with R3-A2 and VI (both with IA ofc) and Lothal Rebel with FCS, Autoblaster turret, Hera, Chopper and Tactical Jammer. In theory the list is crushing vs aces due to Wes' ability to add extra stress and remove tokens before most aces can even open fire. This leaves them very exposed when VCX rolls his 4 red dice. VCX also projects a massive no-go zone for aces thanks to the large base and autoblaster. Wes' ability to remove tokens can also significantly reduce the amount of firepower coming from U-boats.

I tested the list in a small local tournament a week earlier and the results seemed encouraging so I decided to give it a shot at the regionals. Big mistake.

I typically get to the top cut in most major tournaments I participate in. This time I ended up 3:3 and miles away from the finals. While admittedly one of the losses was due to a simple maneuvering mistake (I was quite disheartened at that point and played sloppily), I don't believe I'd get very far even if I did win one more game. My list did dominate the aces for the most part, but U-boats were another story altogether. Against a lesser player who simply gets his ships together and goes for a joust, it works fine enough (I even managed to get a 100:0 win vs triple U-boats at some point). Unfortunately at the regionals I drew a much better player and all the weaknesses of my list became all too apparent.

Basically, when you're playing this list, you're on a very strict timer. Neither of your ships (except maybe Biggs during the initial pass) can defend very well. Sooner or later Biggs will either melt away from all the continous fire of the entire enemy list or he will be forced to split away from the rest. At this point you'll be left with a ship with mediocre defense and 6 HPs and a ship with no defence (though admittedly 16 HPs). With every passing round you will be bleeding HPs left and right from even relatively weak fire, such as U-boat basic weapons. You will be racing against time - if you manage to crush the enemy early, you will win but if not...

Long story short in my first match vs U-boats I managed to set up asteroids in such a way that the fight took place near the left border of the map. By turn 3 all the enemy U-boats had a stress token on them and no practical way to clear it without either flying off the map or getting into a very awkward position. They only managed to fire one torpedo early on and the second one at turn 10 or so. For almost all intents and purposes their entire tactic was compromised and my opponent was clearly frustrated... and still managed to beat me without losing a single ship. While poor offensive rolls on my part were certainly a part of it, I don't think the match was truly winnable. The main problem is that chewing through 27 HPs protected by 2 green dice simply takes too much time. And time is what this list doesn't have. Another problem is that VCX is not exactly a graceful ship. Even with Hera on board it's a very cumbersome beast and the fact that it needs to have it's target in arc makes it very predictable. U-boats on the other hand are pretty nimble with their barrel rolls and can either block the VCX's maneuver (if they have initiative) or simply dodge out of arc. They can't do it all the time with every ship but they can do it well enough to ensure that no single U-boat will be shot at continously all the time. At some point a good player will stop trying to set up torpedo shots at all costs (as this list prevents it quite well) and instead will simply start flying his ships the same way you'd fly a Falcon or another turret ship. Even with just 2 red dice, with Agromech they can achieve very decent number of hits per turn. Not something an Interceptor would consider dangerous but definitely good enough to chew through a VCX or an X-wing if the fight lasts long enough. And sadly they do have the HPs, defence and maneuverability to drag it out for quite a while.

In other words, you can try and see if maybe you can fly this list better than I do but I wouldn't recommend it. The list has it's advantages but it's also quite cumbersome, predictable and doesn't have much of a long term lasting power. A good player will exploit these weaknesses to defeat you and you probably won't have the tools to stop it.

You might try the Corran list though. I've also been considering Poe+Biggs+Wes with double regen droids (on Poe and Wes) and Flechette Torps on Wes to preserve at least some of that sweet capacity to deal stress to aces. Such a list should theoretically excel in the long run but I'm afraid that even with Biggs it might be too prone to heavy firepower early on.

ive been running this list lately and its just brutal if you can fly right. Its also an oddball list so most people arent used to it. Unfamiliar territory is usually a better weapon than a 5die attack...hmm..about that lol

Keyan Farlander (29)

Intimidation (2)

Adv Proton Torps (6)

Extra Muns (2)

Ion Cannon (3)

Adv Sensors (3)

B-wing/E2 (1)

Zeb Orrelios (1)

Lt Blount (17)

Vet Instincts (1)

Ion Pulse Missile (3)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Adaptability (0)

R7-T1 (3)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 100

Keyan is a Bumper-Wing.

You have given me food for thought. Nearly every game I have lost with B-Wings is that when the get jammed up the are screwed since that 2-K just doesn't work well. You have turned a weakness into a strength.

Thanks

Wes and Biggs need to have Corran on their side: he provides a late game threat, a durable points "bank" AND another ps10 ace to add weight to your alpha strike. Without him Biggs and Wes are way less effective

I can't really see a better 3 ships rebel list right now. The only thing that might be up to discussion is if you want to go with BB-8 or r3-a2 on Wes.

BB-8 could help against swarm, but by myself I find hard to play without the option of preventing one enemy ship to perform a koyogran or to double stress some PTL's users

wes isn't the worst against aces, especially at PS 10 with VI + bb-8 integrated playing havoc with defensive tokens and Omega L's target-lock

problem is...he's an X-wing. He will lose in a straight up dice trade to basically anything (even a scout PWT) and everything and he simply cannot maneuver like an ace could

I do wonder how Poe would fit in Corran's shoes in that list. On the face of it he seems better priced and a better all-rounder. He lacks the double-tap but is better priced and can mount Autothrusters. Hmmmm...

ive been running this list lately and its just brutal if you can fly right. Its also an oddball list so most people arent used to it. Unfamiliar territory is usually a better weapon than a 5die attack...hmm..about that lol

Keyan Farlander (29)

Intimidation (2)

Adv Proton Torps (6)

Extra Muns (2)

Ion Cannon (3)

Adv Sensors (3)

B-wing/E2 (1)

Zeb Orrelios (1)

Lt Blount (17)

Vet Instincts (1)

Ion Pulse Missile (3)

Wedge Antilles (29)

Adaptability (0)

R7-T1 (3)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 100

Keyan is a Bumper-Wing.

You have given me food for thought. Nearly every game I have lost with B-Wings is that when the get jammed up the are screwed since that 2-K just doesn't work well. You have turned a weakness into a strength.

Thanks

Pretty much my issue as well. I dont claim to be the guy that came up with the bumper-wing build, just the details in that list. Bumperwing build is actually in the OP of another recent thread regarding bwings revisited. Bunch of odd builds in there but this one stood out since i like bumper-strats so i tried it with wedge and blount - OMG it was awesome lol oneshotting Dengar felt sooooo **** good... (Wedge fired first at PS10, took away shields since 0 agility. Blount fired missile, auto hit for 1 damage and ion. Adv proton torps for 3 crits 2 hits...dead from crit results LOL)

I played about 25 battles in Store Tournaments and one Warsaw Regional using triple Imperial Aces list. But people started to field so much anti-ace things that it forced me to look for some other squad build.

I thought that Rebels are dead and buried in current meta but I must admit I changed my mind - given recent results and thinking about possible lists I think Rebel got two "perfect" ships for this meta:

1) Biggs Darklighter

2) Wes Janson

Take those two and complete a rooster with some heavy hitter for around 40 points (Possible picks: VCX-100, Ten Numb, Farlander, Miranda and Corran) and you basically got really competitive list.

What is more awesome is that those two guys fly in iconic X-Wing!

What do you think? Maybe I am too optimistic about it?

I think this is optimistic, sadly. It could be an aspect of your regional meta. In the Midwestern/NE US meta, there are always some Rebel lists featuring some combination of Biggs, Wes, Kanan, and others, but they never seem to get near the top. In my opinion, the most well-rounded Reb list is Crackswarm A-Wings, and even that gets knocked out. Take the US National Championships at Origins this year, there were lists with Biggs and/or Jansen and plenty of Ghosts and some Rebel Salad, but no Rebel lists made the cut, which was to Top 8 (I'm not even sure any were in the Top 16--if there were there were not many).

wes isn't the worst against aces, especially at PS 10 with VI + bb-8 integrated playing havoc with defensive tokens and Omega L's target-lock

problem is...he's an X-wing. He will lose in a straight up dice trade to basically anything (even a scout PWT) and everything and he simply cannot maneuver like an ace could

Biggs makes Wes more durable and corran is basically 2 ships in the body of one annoying bastard.

I'm also more oriented to r3a2 than bb8 because the stressbot had another element of control

It is true that many rebels builds have been pushed out of the meta because of the great number of Palp aces and U-boats out there. While either of those lists are easily countered by rebels, few rebel lists are good against both.

That does not mean, however, that rebels have no tools at all left in their arsenal. The A-Wing swarm is a good example of how rebels have adapted to the new meta. It has won at least two regionals and placed top 8 in Naboo.

Biggs and Wes are great against U-boats, but I am not sure they can handle aces. The third ship in the list will have to specialize in that. Ten or Keyan are not recommended. Miranda could be good, but she would need Advanced slam and a couple of bombs to deal with aces, and then she runs way over 40 points. Corran is also too expensive for that slot.

Is he? wasn't one of the Rebel Regional wins Corran/Biggs/Wes?

What was the exact list? I was under the impression that a typical Corran is 48 points. And that doesn't leave room for both Wes and Biggs, even if they are naked.

I think his Corran was pretty lean. Just FCS, R2-D2 and VI. Just enough to do his double-tap attack, get the drop on enemy Aces and heal any damage that slips through. Full list was:

Corran w/ VI, R2D2, FCS

Wes w/ VI, R3-2A, IA

Bigs w/ R4-D6, IA