So. . .anyone else see this? I didn't see another thread yet. They changed the measurement rules:

Players may place the maneuver tool and adjust it freely during the Determine Course step of executing a maneuver to assist in determining a course. A ship is not committed to a course until the guides of the maneuver tool are inserted into the ship’s base. Players should not abuse this pre-measurement rule to slow the pace of play or interrupt an opponent’s activation.

I find this odd and irritating for three reasons. One, it's a reversal of the old ruling IIRC. Didn't it used to allow you to measure, place a token or use your finger, and measure from that point? Two, does your finger count as "another component?" And three, now there's nothing stating that you can't pre-measure the movement for another ship, "Players may place the maneuver tool and adjust it freely. . ." Didn't it used to say that you could only pre-measure movement for the activated ship?

Am I mis-remembering the old regulations document?

The One Tool Rule has been in place since the previous tournament FAQs. It was odd that they removed it.

As for pie measuring other ships, I think this is to avoid collisions (or set up ramming opportunities). Wave 3 small ship swarms are now looking at 5-7 ship activations.

And yes, if you place your thumb down to premeasure the board, you are a tool.

"Another component" is something else that came in the box. IMHO, if it's not defined as a tool, your finger doesn't count. You may be a tool if you do it ( at least in cactusman17's eyes) but it isn't against the rules, FAQ or otherwise to use your finger.

You have never been allowed to pre-measure other ships with the Maneuver Tool. Only the ship that is currently moving.

A finger is not "another component" so you are fine there. However, cluttering up the board with tokens to pre-measure, that is a no no.

Didn't the old regulations specifically state that you can't measure for another ship, though? I know that's always been the rule, but I don't see it clearly stated anywhere in the LtP or RR, and not in the new tournament regulations.

Didn't the old regulations specifically state that you can't measure for another ship, though? I know that's always been the rule, but I don't see it clearly stated anywhere in the LtP or RR, and not in the new tournament regulations.

No, that was ruled through an email from FFG. . . I know becuase I was the dunder head that asked

It is in the rules, only 1 ship has a Determine Course step at a time and you can only use the maneuver tool on a ship in the Determine course step.

Here is that email.

Hello, Lyraeus,

"Another component" is something else that came in the box. IMHO, if it's not defined as a tool, your finger doesn't count. You may be a tool if you do it ( at least in cactusman17's eyes) but it isn't against the rules

I mean the table mats all have stars on them..... but nevermind, using your finger makes you a tool.

"Another component" is something else that came in the box. IMHO, if it's not defined as a tool, your finger doesn't count. You may be a tool if you do it ( at least in cactusman17's eyes) but it isn't against the rules

I mean the table mats all have stars on them..... but nevermind, using your finger makes you a tool.

I use the stars as well! It can be annoying to forget which cluster you were using though.

There are those players that for some reason like to have the range ruler down AND the maneuver tool down at the same time to ensure what they are plotting will work. It's like dude .... "use the force, trust in the tool" and if not ... better luck next time.

There are those players that for some reason like to have the range ruler down AND the maneuver tool down at the same time to ensure what they are plotting will work. It's like dude .... "use the force, trust in the tool" and if not ... better luck next time.

Those players are wrong. It is to keep people from taking forever in a move.

"Another component" is something else that came in the box. IMHO, if it's not defined as a tool, your finger doesn't count. You may be a tool if you do it ( at least in cactusman17's eyes) but it isn't against the rules

I mean the table mats all have stars on them..... but nevermind, using your finger makes you a tool.

Honestly, I think it would be awesome to see a player give another player "THE finger" then use that finger to mark their place and measure....But it has been pointed out that I have an unusual sense of humor. I personally don't care what body part you put on the table to measure with. I will yell out "right foot, RED!" though if you start to use your toes....

"Another component" is something else that came in the box. IMHO, if it's not defined as a tool, your finger doesn't count. You may be a tool if you do it ( at least in cactusman17's eyes) but it isn't against the rules

I mean the table mats all have stars on them..... but nevermind, using your finger makes you a tool.

Honestly, I think it would be awesome to see a player give another player "THE finger" then use that finger to mark their place and measure....But it has been pointed out that I have an unusual sense of humor. I personally don't care what body part you put on the table to measure with. I will yell out "right foot, RED!" though if you start to use your toes....

Also, for you young bucks out there, there used to be this game called twister...oh...nevermind...

So, the wording here is exactly why this thread was created: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/218679-squadron-movement-annoyances/?hl=wufame#entry2193564

Wufame and I are both late wave 1 early wave 2 players, so we didn't have all the nuances of every rule sussed out until after that latest tournament update. But, it is easy to see that the new wording definitely seems to imply the reasoning that is in the linked thread, even if that wasn't FFG's intent.

There are those players that for some reason like to have the range ruler down AND the maneuver tool down at the same time to ensure what they are plotting will work. It's like dude .... "use the force, trust in the tool" and if not ... better luck next time.

Those players are wrong. It is to keep people from taking forever in a move.

This is why in our casual games at my table we allow the multitool (although rarely if ever use it). Because none of us slow play due to using tools.

Its the copious amounts of whiskey that does it.

Can you during the determine course step, use the maneuver tool, put it away, use the range ruler, put your finger on the mat, put the range ruler away, use the maneuver tool???

Also, In vassal, can you switch between range and maneuver tool back and forth during the maneuver step... cause people do that all the time

Can you during the determine course step, use the maneuver tool, put it away, use the range ruler, put your finger on the mat, put the range ruler away, use the maneuver tool???

Also, In vassal, can you switch between range and maneuver tool back and forth during the maneuver step... cause people do that all the time

Yes, you just can't have both on the table at the same time.

The etiquette on Vassal is a little less cut and dry. I think that the Vassal analogue to the one-tool rule would be that you never display more than one range band at the same time, nor have any range bands on while the maneuver template is out. However, if you're playing casually, many people have no problem with allowing some fudging on this to expedite the game. Just don't abuse it, and don't do it if your opponent isn't okay with it, and you'll be fine IMO.

There are those players that for some reason like to have the range ruler down AND the maneuver tool down at the same time to ensure what they are plotting will work. It's like dude .... "use the force, trust in the tool" and if not ... better luck next time.

Those players are wrong. It is to keep people from taking forever in a move.

This is why in our casual games at my table we allow the multitool (although rarely if ever use it). Because none of us slow play due to using tools.

Its the copious amounts of whiskey that does it.

True. I dont allow it because it helps players learn and they are ready for a tournament if they wish to attend one.

I'm against multiple tools because I believe that especially after getting to pre-measure everything, players should have to take some small risk in performing their maneuver. If a player can't make a mistake in maneuvering, or judging shots, then it's not really a game is it? We could have ro-sham-bo'd for determining the match and enjoyed lunch.

I asked about this on the rules forum long ago and the consensus we reached was that replacements for tools, typically fingers, are okay. So you can measure, drop your finger, then measure from your finger. Your finger isn't listed as a tool, even if it is effectively acting as a replacement for a tool (it's subbing in for a cardboard token, basically). One could also argue that you could use a laser line pen and a maneuver tool or range ruler at the same time, even though the laser line pen is effectively subbing in for a range ruler turned 90 degrees to function as an arc measurer. The rule is unfortunately not very well-worded.