Can you play as any other races in this game ?
Human Race only or others ?
Nope, there are only rules for humans, since they make up the vast majority of Inquisitorial acolytes and Rogue Trader crews.
That said, between the various homeworlds and the possibility of playing a mutant, the range and diversity of "human" is as wide as the range of races you find in many fantasy or sci-fi games. Let's face it, most non-human races in rpgs are essentially humans with exaggerated personality traits and an odd physical appearance.
LuciusT said:
That said, between the various homeworlds and the possibility of playing a mutant, the range and diversity of "human" is as wide as the range of races you find in many fantasy or sci-fi games. Let's face it, most non-human races in rpgs are essentially humans with exaggerated personality traits and an odd physical appearance.
Pretty much There's plenty of choice with "just humans".
Keep in mind that in one of the interviews before the release of RT Ross Watson said that he plans for Xenos to be available by first quarter of 2010. Make of it what you wish, though probably the schedule will slip a bit, as it always does.
Well, he said a book of Xenos. Never mentioned them being rules for "player character" xenos. *was the interviewer in this instance*
LuciusT said:
Let's face it, most non-human races in rpgs are essentially humans with exaggerated personality traits and an odd physical appearance.
Yup.
On a personal note though, I have to say that I really hate that in RPG's. Which is why elves and orks (and their sci-fi derivatives) in my games can't really be considered as "races" but rather their own species.
Elves are way cooler if they look and seem truly alien, rather than when they are basically humans but with prettier looks and pointy ears. Which in turn explains why I hate elves in most fantasy settings, but find them to be very interesting in WH40K. Because in 40K, they aren't "basically humans but with pointy ears" they are really alien. They even look alien in some of the artwork which I really like. They have inhumanly elongated heads and faces, their eyes are slanted in the extreme and oddly coloured, their ways of thinking and reasoning are often completely incomperhensible to human minds, all of them are basically psykers and so on.
That's my kind of elf. Mainly because I'd never try to roleplay one as a player character, because it would just be way too hard to portray such an alien species.
The more strange and inhuman they are, the better I like them. The humanesque kinds that even possess the ability to interbreed with humans can burn on a stake for all I care. One of the suckier ideas of fantasy fiction in my not so humble opinion...
Would anyone here allow players to choose any of the other Human sub-species?
Squats: +5 WS, +5 Tough, +5 Will; -10 Agility, -5 Fell
Ratlings: +5 Agility, +5 Perc; -5 Strength, -5 Tough; (Scrawny)
Ogryn: ...no chance.
Col. Orange said:
Would anyone here allow players to choose any of the other Human sub-species?
Squats: +5 WS, +5 Tough, +5 Will; -10 Agility, -5 Fell
Ratlings: +5 Agility, +5 Perc; -5 Strength, -5 Tough; (Scrawny)
Ogryn: ...no chance.
I would. But not the Squats. Games Workshop wrote them out of the canon for a reason and I don't wanna see them back in my campaigns. Ratlings and Ogryns on the other hand, while they might demand some rules tweaking, will be fine.
I definitely think the squats have a place along with the other abhumans. Though their homeworlds were destroyed by the Tyranids they were common enough on board ships, in military units and in the service of the Adeptus Mechanicus that there's lots of scope for them to still be around, and the unique nature of inquisitorial acolytes or Rogue Trader crews makes them perfect PC material.
Fantastic roleplay potential as well - they've lost their homes, and only a relative few may be scattered throughout the Imperium. They'd make tragic figures with only their cultural stoicism to keep them going.
PGMason said:
I definitely think the squats have a place along with the other abhumans. Though their homeworlds were destroyed by the Tyranids they were common enough on board ships, in military units and in the service of the Adeptus Mechanicus that there's lots of scope for them to still be around, and the unique nature of inquisitorial acolytes or Rogue Trader crews makes them perfect PC material.
That's your opinion and it's perfectly viable. I just disagree with it. And in effect, my games won't have any Squats. They are all dead. In fact, as far as my games go, they never even existed in the first place (and there's only one or two guys in my group who actually know that the Squats used to exist in 40K fiction, and they don't like the concept either so Squats will certainly not be missed by anyone in my group)
PGMason said:
Fantastic roleplay potential as well - they've lost their homes, and only a relative few may be scattered throughout the Imperium. They'd make tragic figures with only their cultural stoicism to keep them going.
That's not very exclusive to Squats in my opinion. The Tanith First and Only (aka Gaunt's Ghosts) also lost their home during their founding, and they are normal humans. If one wanted to roleplay a character that has lost their home in my game then it's easy enough to just pick a human world and a human character. I'll even be gracious enough to let that human character be of a rather short and stocky build if the player wants to. But im not gonna have any mentions of Squats or Demiurg or any of that nonsense.
The Squats were written out of the official fluff for a reason, and I agree with that reason. Of course, it's not gonna stop anyone else from allowing Squats as PC's in their games if they want to, but in my campaigns: Squats just don't exist, Period.
I have the Demiurg floating around in my DH game world and may bring them into RT, however I've taken their BFG ships and technology and attitudes (which is pretty vague) and divorced them entirely from the squats. My Demiurg are high pressure low temperature cephalopods (specifically Vampyromorphida) with a Boron-Ammonia biochemistry. Largely because I wanted to use the ships (as I own the models from BFG), liked the name and got very drunk one night with the people I used to work with (respectively a geneticist, inverterbrate marine biologist, biochemist and an astrophysicist and I was a plant biologist so it got odd).
I use the squats in my background as one of the types of high grav mutation with one paticular area having the squat culture, however they got eaten by tyranids and as the main high grav mutation is ogryns they arn't common enough to crop up yet. I've allowed DH players to play as ogryns and ratlings but they were regarded as being not good enough to play for any length of time (ogryns too stupid, ratlings too weak). My players thought they were well ballanced so I'll dig them out and put them up if people want them, they were for DH though so not sure how well they would work, in RT I wouldn't allow them as PC's as I don't think abhumans would get into those positions.
I was present at the release at GenCon, and talked to Ross about the issue. He expressed a desire to make Xenos playable, but said he would not do so unless he was sure he had enough space in whatever book it was to do the concept justice. I know that's not helpful for timetables, but its all I know.
I really just want Eldar stats for players. That is all.
I'm actually rather glad there are no xenos playable. Every sci-fi and fantasy setting out there uses race/species and maybe alignment to distinguish between characters, and very few do so in a manner which even begins to reflects a perspective distinct from that of a 20th century white Westerner, usually male.
Being a history grad student, I'm very painfully aware of how significant the differences are between how humans in the same culture think about the same thing, using what appear to be the same words, as little as a century apart. And that's with the same fundamental set of environmental needs and miniscule variation in genetic makeup.
Actually having to provide for differences between humans raised on entirely different planets allows for a great deal more actual diversity than just "lol these Klingons are aggressive and talk about honour because they're Klingons." If anything, there is too little acknowledgement in science fiction just how vast the differences between two people who come from the same planet would be. The only book I've read which touches the matter is Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand by Samuel R. Delany, which notes that the main character can't even communicate in person with other people from his own world a few time zones away, because his world has several distinct languages and cultures.
Meanwhile, the 40k universe is rather unique in that it intentionally sets out to be challenging to present-day assumptions. Rogue Trader is more interesting if you can't play an Eldar because that would make enemies of far more potential allies than he is worth and the Eldar actually have their own agenda which legitimately makes them dangerous for humans to trust is far more interesting than "hark ye noble elf, friend of mankind" or "oh no, these evil people are prejudiced because 20th century history is the template for the entire sentient experience and I think re-hashing Dragonlance books is somehow a better meditation on it than actually reading about the real civil rights movement."
tl,dr: I prefer no Xenos because it makes the setting unique and interesting in ways a playable Eldar would not.
Also note: an entire offshoot game devoted to being a crew of Ork Freebootaz would rock. Suggested inspirations: Munckin and Paranoia.
I agree Hodge, the aliens in 40k are designed to have totally alien mindsets, making them essentially impossible for a human to accurately portray in the way the setting demands they be portrayed. I would hate for Eldar to end up being just like humans, but with pointy ears, pretty, and lots of psychic powers. It's one of the reasons I hated the Squats, since they were basically direct ports of dwarfs, which I have never found that interesting.
That's why I like the 40k setting, and I want it to stay that way.
It is a role playing game and you play a role. I like the Eldar, and I do not think it would be difficult for an experienced role-player to play one. I am not considering ever letting a player play a maxed out Eldar psyker; but what harm comes from playing an Eldar Corsair or Exodite wandering the Expanse with a Rogue Trader group? I see no harm in it at all. My opinion is that Eldar would be the only Xeno's race playable.
I have allowed one player to play an Eldar Corsair aiding the group. I used bits and pieces from Creatures and RT to get a general idea of what the character would be capable of. This Eldar, and Exodite, was obsessed with revenge against a Dark Eldar group that raided his settlement and made off with a large number of spirit stones. During conflict, the Eldar player is single minded in his rage, and this has caused problems for the players. I made playing the character in this obsessed manner mandatory, and it has worked super for the plot.
Millandson, dont you have some eldar stats on Dark Reign? How canon are they?
Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:
It is a role playing game and you play a role. I like the Eldar, and I do not think it would be difficult for an experienced role-player to play one. I am not considering ever letting a player play a maxed out Eldar psyker; but what harm comes from playing an Eldar Corsair or Exodite wandering the Expanse with a Rogue Trader group? I see no harm in it at all. My opinion is that Eldar would be the only Xeno's race playable.
Personally, I disagree.
Letting a player play an eldar spoils the illusion of their alien nature for me. If I put a player's human face on the role of an eldar, the eldar stops coming off as "alien" enough in my opinion.
There is no player capable of competently portray an eldar and be convincing enough. It's hard enough as it is for a gamemaster to portray them as NPC's, and that's usually just small passing moments of portrayal in most cases. Having an eldar as a "regular" role in a campaign will ultimately fail to be convincing.
That's the harm I see in letting players play eldar characters. In my campaigns, players have to stick with humans, because with humans I know that the players can easily relate to their fictional counterparts a lot easier than trying to grasp and portray the alien mind of an eldar.
To put it simply, in my games, Eldar aren't a "race", they are an entirely different species. If such a character were to become a regular cast member in the campaign and also portrayed by a player, that illusion would disappear.
EDIT:
Also I'd like to point out that my reasons for this are not because I dislike the eldar, its quite the contrary. The WH40K Eldar are one of the most interesting representation of fantasy elves in my opinion. I dislike the elves in Warhammer Fantasy and in Lord of the Rings as well, but 40K eldar are a different story, mainly becase they aren't portrayed as "basicaly humans but with pointy ears", but actually as an alien species. I like that portrayal a lot, and thus wouldn't want it to be spoiled by letting a player play an eldar character and thus put a too human face on the character in question.
To put it simply, in my games, Eldar aren't a "race", they are an entirely different species. If such a character were to become a regular cast member in the campaign and also portrayed by a player, that illusion would disappear.
I have not had this problem in my game. My Eldar player plays an Eldar very different from a human with pointy ears. He is surrounded by what he considers a lower race, he considers his culture far superior, and is difficult to control. His motives are unfathomable. He has done a good job. He has agendas which a human would not have and plays them out. It is highly unlikely that he will survive the final conflict due to his alien nature.
I only allowed one Eldar, and only for the current campaign, more like a Guest Star. However, I still think he is played well and other people can play them well too.
I play Eldar on the table top and do so well. Perhaps I am an alien.
Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:
I play Eldar on the table top and do so well. Perhaps I am an alien.
Well if you mean the table top strategy game, then im as alien as you. (Im a Necron veteran myself )
Though I really wish that GW could make a new Necron codex that is a little more compatible with 5th ed than the current one. (the tin heads became a little too nerfed for comfort with the 5th ed rules)
However I'd like to see a new codex and some new miniatures for Dark Eldar first. They are currently the oldest army after all and they certainly deserve an update.
I dont see why PC rules and stats for Ogryn, Ratling and other Abhumans have not yet been released. I often use No_1_h3r3's rules for them, but would love to see something official.
What are all the known abhumans? Ogryn, Ratling, Beastman (old school), Squats (old school) any others?
i will be that tiny voice of minority on this thread. i say YES to other species, races - whatever you want to call them.
there are some RTs and Inquisitors that love their xenos companions others that use them to accomplish their task. so i say, why not play them up?
yes yes we can all wax poetic about not being able to understand them, them being too alien, them having 6 eyes so we really don't know how they see. them having 3 brains so we don't know how they think. i don't think anyone playing this game can reasonably tell me how or what a Tech Priest or the rest of the Mechanicus thinks with any degree of accuracy.
ultimately it all becomes a role. whether as GM we attempt to depict the Slaught, or Dark Eldar or a maddened Khornate worshiper. or as player depicting Ogryn, a Ratling, Squat or any other wierd stable mutation/or instable mutation we happen to create.
an Eldar, an Ork, Tau, Ogryn, aquatic human mutations with gills. whatever ...might have alien mindsets but as long as they can still function as normal..i don't see the issue. they can feed. they can fight. they can communicate, they can take damage, they can die..whatever motivations they or their race/species may have, the Inquisitor/RT would all make for very interesting story telling and roleplay potentially.
Nightsiders and (arguably) scavies are abhumans.
the liegekiller said:
i don't think anyone playing this game can reasonably tell me how or what a Tech Priest or the rest of the Mechanicus thinks with any degree of accuracy.
If you know how a computer "thinks" and how a human mind thinks, I don't see the problem with imagining how a Tech Priest thinks. Tech Priests are still humans and not aliens...
Peacekeeper_b said:
What are all the known abhumans? Ogryn, Ratling, Beastman (old school), Squats (old school) any others?
Afriel Strains and Gland War Veterans are considered abhuman. Also I think scavvies could be considered abhuman too.
Here's the lexicanum link for Afriels and Gland War Veterans: