Got a PM from Typo (a very good question) asking this...

1. I think Schmitty's (awesome for the community) Regional Data showed two surprising facts...

a) Quantity-wise... ship activation didn't matter! It's really about quality of ship activation.

b) The majority of winning lists didn't care about going 1st or 2nd... you gotta be ready for both.

2. Given the fragility of my fleet (16 hull), I wanted to go 2nd... could I win vs an Ackbar Gunline (maybe the Mothmition can breakthrough...) or Rieekan Aces with Yavaris (or some kind of carrier build)... honestly, I think it would have been even odds or I would have been an advantage.

As I said, it my other post... Intel Sweep likely puts you up 75. Most Wanted gives you a chance to WHALE. Contested Outpost, gives you a 40 pt lead and forces TEMPO... you know where their ships are going.

Basically, by playing my Objectives, I will win if we don't engage or play each other (unless Most Wanted is chosen).

3. Specifically, in the Finals Match...

Most Wanted - I took down the ISD in about one round. Would you risk taking Most Wanted and me getting double points? If Most Wanted went on the Demolisher, would Demo kill enough to make it's points back? (I would have sacrificed a cheap TRC - 51pts to be able to counterattack the Demolisher... 56 + 28 Most Wanted + Upgrades.)

Intel Sweep - although Troy played it well... if I had gotten 75 points, I could have lost a TRC and still won. He lined his Raider on the right of the board to grab two objectives but had to swing behind his ISD because I could set up last and I put my Mothmition and two TRCs to overload to destroy his Raider after he got one Objective Token. I was likely gonna go 2-1 on Tokens for +75. Troy played it right and I was sweating because he killed my objective ship first. I wish the Finals were on Twitch... maybe Biggs took pictures and peeps can analyze how it all went down.

Contested Outpost - But the ISD has Command 3 and your fleet has Command 5 TOTAL... you're going lose it. I did not shoot at his squadrons... I concentrated on destroying the ISD (did it in one round)... I wanted the ISD or Demo to converge on a spot.

Troy's squadrons were pretty strong... did I want to risk Superior Positions or Precision Strike vs. him? I'm guessing these were his missions... also, he had a Raider (two black AS) and ISD (black, blue AS).

4. Demo is a boss... it has the ability to roll you over and table you! Yup, with 16 Hull (and my experience with the vs 3vs Shrimp + Guppy in Regionals)... getting tabling is very real with my speed/finesse fleet... in a one off game, one ship usually can bounce through the line so I hopefully wouldn't be getting too crushed!

Troy had 3 activations.

He goes - I go - he goes - I go - he goes - I go - I go. (Having more activations... the last two especially... with fast ships, I had the opportunity to move out of range of the 1st Tap against a Demo the following turn... unfortunately, Mon's TRCs hit another Vette... I need to be within Range 1 of Objective Token 2 and Troy made me pay.)

Demolisher can hit from about Range 7? With Engine Techs, can someone confirm this?

With likely getting Intel Sweep (+75), if Mothmition died (-84) to the Demo, I'd be down 9pts and likely have a free round to attack Demo... I think I would have killed Demo with that... so "losing" in this trade was acceptable. I had thought about putting a TRC on the flank of Demo to attack it if he rolled down my main line (in retrospect, this was probably the better setup)... if Demo turns away from the main battle line... sure I lose the TRC, but the Demo can't turn fast enough to get back into the fight... so it'd be ISD/Raider vs 2xTRC and Mothmition. I don't think Troy would have bit on my gambit.

I had a fleet that didn't let the Demo really trade up on anything.

5. Experience with the GenCon Special - I usually went SECOND.

IIRC, Game 1 - I went first with Minefields... in all the other matches, I went 2nd and opponents usually picked Advanced Gunnery (put on my Victory). I think Rounds 2-4, my opponents had 4 ship activations too.

My Demolisher had ACMs had the upgrade.

Tip: Practice playing Gladiators WITHOUT engine techs and/or Demolisher. You will find that Navigate is the key command... you will get better at forcing opponents to get within the Glad when they move first. Once you get this down, you'll be a stronger player. Troy had no choice but to move his ISD into double tap range of my Mothmition.

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Why I'm explaining everything...

1 - Hopefully, my consistent finishes proved that GenCon Special wasn't a fluke win at 300 (an incomplete game)...

2 - the meta will be different with Waves 3/4 at Worlds

3 - I want the game to grow... I think Armada will have a new Worlds champion with some list that we'll say... yeah, we thought about it (but only the winner had the guts to actually run).

4 - Armada does have any list that can win on any day... it's like the World Series of Poker where Chris Moneymaker shocked the world by making the field through the PROs... at the end of the day, I'd rather play all different kinds of lists... it's more fun/engaging than going against Power Lists... meeting new folks and their crazy ideas is great!

5 - Arguing about what is the best list... it's fun... because there isn't a best list!

Lastly, I hope I don't start a trend where peeps win Initiative to go 2nd and play turtle/counterattack lists (Come at me, brah...). But someone will figure out a way to break through! :-)

Take care, everyone!

PS We are lucky to have guys like Biggs, Schmitty, Reinholt, McMann, the IFF Guys (to name a few) who do a great job of sharing knowledge to make a better game. It can be intimidating for new players but you can jump in and do alright...

I want to emphasize... PLAY WANT YOU WANT, HOW YOU WANT, AND WHY YOU WANT... anything is possible on any given day!

I think going second can be very much worth it.

In my local regionals (which had an admittedly small field) I picked a fleet using the full 400 points with the intention of always going second so that I could play one of my own missions - and won every game.

In one game against Ackbar my opponent chose Most Wanted - I picked the most expensive ship, focused on it and won the game as a result

In another game I had Dangerous Territory and picked up 75 points alone from the mission

The Demolisher double/triple tap is something to be feared indeed, but by playing the mission you have options other than going head-to-head with the other player.

Demolisher can hit from about Range 7? With Engine Techs, can someone confirm this?

Assuming Demo is just going straight, and that ranges 6 and 7 are the same as 3,4 and 5- Yes, Demo can get to close range with Engine Tech at Range 7.

Q, I just want to say I'm loving all these posts. Lots of good insight.

Great insights! Thanks for sharing them!

Love it! This was my approach when i won a regional. Always counting points for trading pieces. Similar to chess. Also making every objective work FOR you is important.

Those are all really good points.

In my experience, going 2nd is all about making sure there is more than one "good" choice for the first player to activate first. Counter threatening valuable targets is key, as is making sure you don't forget to play the objective. It's all about making your opponent make choices.

Things that makes going second more comfortable is plenty of red dice and squadrons. And having objectives that you know how to play and that benefit your fleet.

@ IceQube: Thank you for sharing this knowledge with all of us. I have much to learn about going second.

Thanks IceQube. Your post has inspired me to really think about an opponent's fleet composition before I choose to go second or first. Previously if I saw Demolisher on the table and I had the choice, I'd automatically go first. Now I'll have a good think before I answer.

Will my objectives give my opponent an ulcer? If so, maybe I'll go second even with Demo on the table.

Thanks Q! Maybe SOMEDAY I'll get to use your own advice against you.

**** boy's dating too much to make our normal Wednesday nights.

I have found that going first only helps when both players charge in and bash each other. I love going 2nd and set my fleet so when one of my opponents ships moves into range he is in range of most of my force and they all attack that first ship and move away at an angle so at the start of the next turn ships are not in range. till he moves a ship after me. Then repeat as he comes after me . Ether way that first ship that moves into range dies when your whole fleet fires on it and runs away. If he sends a small fast ship to cut me off then that becomes my next prime target. That's just how fire before movement works in my mind. Stick and move away. and when you totally out gun him then I charge in and kill the rest of his force.

Thank you, thank you for twice demonstrating, in a large event, outside thinking going against popular opinion. This is the best aspect of Armada. If you are playing against popular archtypes with a brew and you are doing well there is no reason this can't translate to Tournment results. Perhaps this time people will listen.

Hopefully the circlejerks concerning:

• Demo
• High bidding for first
• Net decking and conventionial picks

Will settle down just a bit or least give pause for thought

For months people talked about countering Demo via trades and using Objectives to even out any loss but until someone demonstrates the counter play (just like Worlds in another Demo activation meta) in a large event, they insist the advice is an outlier.

I can't beleive people put the Worlds win down to a lucky deployment. Bro with 8 squadrons thats the ******* point.

Well played again.

but by playing the mission you have options other than going head-to-head with the other player.

This is the biggest thing. I find a lot of people don't pay close enough attention to the mission during both deployment and the game itself. It can be huge. I just won a game yesterday that would have been 11pts, but I won Intel Sweep, which made it a 7-3. I long for the day I field an APT fleet and get Precision Strike.

And I think building a fleet designed to do well with only your objectives and zero bid is short sighted as well. What happens when someone outbids you by one point and makes you go first? If you need to go second, take a decent bid. Not a seriously low "I need my Clonisher to go Last/First or I lose the game lol 40pt bid," but maybe five points or so to outbid most people that don't consider a bid important. Then most of the people who have outbid you are probably banking on going first, which is perfect for you.