This illustrates my issue with there being 3 "different" games. Everything you're looking for is laid out perfectly... in AoR. But you'd have to drop an extra $60 to get it.

The structure of the game(s) isn't the problem.

A "James Bond" character (a spy for military intelligence ) is just a poor fit for an EotE campaign, therefore there's no reason to expect there to be a good class in EotE to represent the archetype.

Gripe all you want about having to drop extra money, but this complaint is as valid as being upset because you're not able to play a space marine in a D&D campaign.

Not if he's a spy who has been burned.

Then the character concept fits handily.

It's just going to be a really uncommon character next to the kinds laid out in EotE.

This illustrates my issue with there being 3 "different" games. Everything you're looking for is laid out perfectly... in AoR. But you'd have to drop an extra $60 to get it.

The structure of the game(s) isn't the problem.

A "James Bond" character (a spy for military intelligence ) is just a poor fit for an EotE campaign, therefore there's no reason to expect there to be a good class in EotE to represent the archetype.

Gripe all you want about having to drop extra money, but this complaint is as valid as being upset because you're not able to play a space marine in a D&D campaign.

Not if he's a spy who has been burned.

Then the character concept fits handily.

It's just going to be a really uncommon character next to the kinds laid out in EotE.

I think the point where the character is burnt is the point they become an EotE PC. Up until then, which is to say during character creation, they are without doubt an AoR character. If on the other hand they had dropped out of Spy School on day 3 then gone on to find their own life a Fringer Scoundrel or many other Edge characters would fit well.

This illustrates my issue with there being 3 "different" games. Everything you're looking for is laid out perfectly... in AoR. But you'd have to drop an extra $60 to get it.

The structure of the game(s) isn't the problem.

A "James Bond" character (a spy for military intelligence ) is just a poor fit for an EotE campaign, therefore there's no reason to expect there to be a good class in EotE to represent the archetype.

Gripe all you want about having to drop extra money, but this complaint is as valid as being upset because you're not able to play a space marine in a D&D campaign.

1) Clearly you haven't looked too deep into 5e D&D, b/c there are write-ups for alien laser weapons and power armor. So you ~could~ play a space marine if you wanted. =)

2) You're missing the point. Somebody mentioned not being allowed to use the Talent sheets from a book you don't own yet. Which also illustrates the point, that you have to buy the rights to certain content before you can include it in the game you already own. You can't play a Kel Dor Smuggler who flies an A-Wing unless you paid for the rights to all 3 Cores.

If you wanted to play the classic group of Han, Leia, and Luke... you need all 3 books. Some will argue that you can kinda cross your eyes and squint like a 3D poster, and see how certain Careers ~could~ be made to look playable. But to truly make a Smuggler, a Diplomat, and a Jedi... you need all 3.

In this case, OP could squint and maybe make something that resembles a Spy, or they could get AoR and make a real Spy.

2) You're missing the point. Somebody mentioned not being allowed to use the Talent sheets from a book you don't own yet. Which also illustrates the point, that you have to buy the rights to certain content before you can include it in the game you already own. You can't play a Kel Dor Smuggler who flies an A-Wing unless you paid for the rights to all 3 Cores.

Who says that I can’t play a Kel Dor Smuggler who flies an A-Wing without owning all three CRBs?

I can easily get the species attributes. I can easily get the ship specifications. I can easily get the details for the career and specialization.

Of course, if no one in the group has any of the books in question, then that makes things harder, because there’s only so much detail that can go into a downloadable character sheet or specialization sheet, etc….

But there’s no law that says I can’t do it.

A lot of groups I know of have split the 3 lines amongst 3 members of the group, one collects a line each. This way down the track anyone involved has a full line themselves even if the group moves apart. This is obviously not always possible, and there's always the chance of a completionist in a group who's gotta catch them all.

One thing to also consider is that in most DnD groups the Players pick up the Players Handbook while the GM gets theirs. This usually results in multiple copies of the same book at the table. In this system I would definitely recommend is that if multiple members of a group want a core book then each get different ones, they give the most variety for the cost and since the rules are identical it's just extra reference and PC choice essentially for free.

IMO there are multiple ways of going about this.Many spies are recruited from the military so a raw recruit could be done with mercenary soldier or bodyguard. One that specialises in using compuuters to get what they want could use slicer. Thieves specialise in breaking and entering. Fringer could be used to be the non combative type. Humans and the talent well rounded get you access to 2 non career skills so they can be used to get you access to skills extra. James Bond in particular, from the books and Daniel Craig's portrayal could quite easily take asssassin, however my favourite for a James bond type would be outside of the core book but still in product line , a human enforcer.

This illustrates my issue with there being 3 "different" games. Everything you're looking for is laid out perfectly... in AoR. But you'd have to drop an extra $60 to get it.

The structure of the game(s) isn't the problem.

A "James Bond" character (a spy for military intelligence ) is just a poor fit for an EotE campaign, therefore there's no reason to expect there to be a good class in EotE to represent the archetype.

Gripe all you want about having to drop extra money, but this complaint is as valid as being upset because you're not able to play a space marine in a D&D campaign.

Not if he's a spy who has been burned.

Then the character concept fits handily.

It's just going to be a really uncommon character next to the kinds laid out in EotE.

I think the point where the character is burnt is the point they become an EotE PC. Up until then, which is to say during character creation, they are without doubt an AoR character. If on the other hand they had dropped out of Spy School on day 3 then gone on to find their own life a Fringer Scoundrel or many other Edge characters would fit well.

I disagree with this argument (logical line of reasoning), because you could create a knight level spy who got burnt yesterday (the in universe day before the game started) which would explain why he had a spy career and obligation.

I agree with you that having to buy the EotE core and AoR core to do it is a legitimate requirement (i.e. I only disagree with the argument not the conclusion you are trying to support)

Knowing that knight level means 150 earned xp plus an extra 9000 credits is something that you could read off the forums without having to buy the FaD core (according to my way of thinking)

One way to do a spy/saboteur is to do Hired Gun/Demolitionist. Hired Gun takes care of all your combat needs, plus it adds in Resilience for the heavy amount of James Bond drinking. Demolitionist, gives you both Computers and Mechanics for slicing(hacking) and improvised traps and other such spy like on fly gadgets, and the best part, you get Skulduggery. A lot of people forget(GMs included) that when you are pretending to be someone else, I.E. undercover(disguise) this is the skill that needs to be tested, not Deception. Plus it adds picking locks and pick pocketing and all that good stuff a spy would find useful. Plus, your talent tree lets you blow stuff up with style!

Pretty much the only things missing are Stealth and Deception.

For my Jane Bond type PC I went with Spy Infiltrator/Enforcer (Hired Gun). Lots of brute toughness plus spy stuff.

One way to do a spy/saboteur is to do Hired Gun/Demolitionist. Hired Gun takes care of all your combat needs, plus it adds in Resilience for the heavy amount of James Bond drinking. Demolitionist, gives you both Computers and Mechanics for slicing(hacking) and improvised traps and other such spy like on fly gadgets, and the best part, you get Skulduggery. A lot of people forget(GMs included) that when you are pretending to be someone else, I.E. undercover(disguise) this is the skill that needs to be tested, not Deception. Plus it adds picking locks and pick pocketing and all that good stuff a spy would find useful. Plus, your talent tree lets you blow stuff up with style!

Pretty much the only things missing are Stealth and Deception.

You said it better than my longer post earlier in this same thread, but beyond the first spec, demolitionist pairs well with hired gun:mercenary soldier and bounty hunter:gadgeteer

One way to do a spy/saboteur is to do Hired Gun/Demolitionist. Hired Gun takes care of all your combat needs, plus it adds in Resilience for the heavy amount of James Bond drinking. Demolitionist, gives you both Computers and Mechanics for slicing(hacking) and improvised traps and other such spy like on fly gadgets, and the best part, you get Skulduggery. A lot of people forget(GMs included) that when you are pretending to be someone else, I.E. undercover(disguise) this is the skill that needs to be tested, not Deception. Plus it adds picking locks and pick pocketing and all that good stuff a spy would find useful. Plus, your talent tree lets you blow stuff up with style!

Pretty much the only things missing are Stealth and Deception.

You said it better than my longer post earlier in this same thread, but beyond the first spec, demolitionist pairs well with hired gun:mercenary soldier and bounty hunter:gadgeteer

Thanks for the compliment and I missed your earlier post, but that is pretty awesome that you already mentioned that career/specialization. Good stuff!

This illustrates my issue with there being 3 "different" games. Everything you're looking for is laid out perfectly... in AoR. But you'd have to drop an extra $60 to get it.

2) You're missing the point. Somebody mentioned not being allowed to use the Talent sheets from a book you don't own yet. Which also illustrates the point, that you have to buy the rights to certain content before you can include it in the game you already own. You can't play a Kel Dor Smuggler who flies an A-Wing unless you paid for the rights to all 3 Cores.

I'll admit that I have some illegal PDFs of games that do not sell them or are now out of print, but I have the dead tree versions as well. Hell I bought a special rolley cart just to lug all my FFG Star Wars stuff around (seriously folks grandma carts are the bomb - thats what kids say these days right?). My PDFs are great and useful for when I can't lug around everything, but I know people worked on them and without my money these things wouldn't exist at all so I keep my conscience clear by putting my money where my hobby is. It's a lot of money to get all this stuff, I sacrifice a lot of beer and movie money for my hobby, thats just the way it is. Back when I was a kid and bought my first D&D books I would save my meagre allowance for months to get each one. If there was a new Class or whatever I wanted to play, I'd either look at my friends book (assuming he had one) or I'd wait until I could afford to get that shiny new book. And you know what? I was fine with that because I wasn't a whinny little brat who required instant gratification of every desire to be happy.

In the last decade or so people think they should get sh*t for free because, reasons. Stop b*tching about the cost, seriously each book is one nice dinner out or couple nights of drinks (less if you have a drinking problem), and you get the added benefit of not crapping or pissing it out the next morning. And if you are a poor student or struggling youth, well suck it up because it gets better and you'll be able to treat yourself to these things once and a while soon. It's okay to not have all the things right away.

end rant.

One way to do a spy/saboteur is to do Hired Gun/Demolitionist. Hired Gun takes care of all your combat needs, plus it adds in Resilience for the heavy amount of James Bond drinking. Demolitionist, gives you both Computers and Mechanics for slicing(hacking) and improvised traps and other such spy like on fly gadgets, and the best part, you get Skulduggery. A lot of people forget(GMs included) that when you are pretending to be someone else, I.E. undercover(disguise) this is the skill that needs to be tested, not Deception. Plus it adds picking locks and pick pocketing and all that good stuff a spy would find useful. Plus, your talent tree lets you blow stuff up with style!

Pretty much the only things missing are Stealth and Deception.

You said it better than my longer post earlier in this same thread, but beyond the first spec, demolitionist pairs well with hired gun:mercenary soldier and bounty hunter:gadgeteer

Thanks for the compliment and I missed your earlier post, but that is pretty awesome that you already mentioned that career/specialization. Good stuff!

I wonder whether this is a case of "great minds think alike" or "it takes 2 fools to share 1 thought"

(self deprecating humor is one of my things)