We also have Black Sun Ace as an existing precedent for a non-unique ace

• "Red Ace"
• "Blue Ace"
I was talking about established unique Aces that have the unique pilot dot (no name equals generic to me in this context), and I had to give examples because you took what I said out of context, and then after I gave those examples you still had to mock them, and continued on your rant about other generic ships in the contest.

When I said the Ace should have a unique pilot dot I had those two in mind, not any other generic that you might have spotted in the contest.

Also I haven't blamed anyone else that I wasn't looking out for all the missing dots, so you can stop saying it's only my own fault like you've got to wave a flag highlighting it as an error, over and over. I could easily do that to you since you've admitted above you were wrong, but I'm not that petty.

You can say "I wasn't talking in any way shape or form about them" the Red Ace & Blue Ace, but you did make fun of my posting the links, with your "Good for them. Don't they feel special" remark so that isn't true. They have dots, that's why I brought them up, so I don't think you read clearly what you quoted and I had to assume were responding to because you quoted it. Why quote what I said if you're not going to read it, but rather pontificate on something else.

My original point could have been expressed using more words to make it clearer: I could make a squad full of generic Rogue Aces and that wouldn't seem right to me given the unique Aces that exist officially already. That's all, I don't need a list of generic y-wings that may not be Aces, generic Starvipers that may not be Aces, or whatever else as examples of contest entries that are may or may not be Aces. That's you ignoring what I said, or making up something else, so you can try to contradict my point. As if you are trying to undo have admitted you were wrong.

Not to mention you're get to say at me that I should get over it ("deal with it") because you decided not to bother to understand what I was really saying.

Not to mention on top of that, after all that, you're contradicting yourself saying: "The Rogue Squadron Ace isn't generic."

• "Red Ace"

• "Blue Ace"

I was talking about established unique Aces that have the unique pilot dot (no name equals generic to me in this context), and I had to give examples because you took what I said out of context, and then after I gave those examples you still had to mock them, and continued on your rant about other generic ships in the contest.

When I said the Ace should have a unique pilot dot I had those two in mind, not any other generic that you might have spotted in the contest.

You're still ignoring what I've said. Pointing out other generics was with regards to your complaints bout there being a generic finalist. I was just pointing out that whatever was said about unique vs generic for submissions, multiple generics were submitted and allowed into the voting process. I was never talking about whether he should be unique, and in no way at the time referenced any other aces.

I understand perfectly well what you're saying about the rogue squadron ace being unique compared to red and blue aces. But it isn't, and I already pointed out an existing "ace" in the game that's not unique, And RSA wasn't designed to be unique in the first place, hence the lack of an ability.

Also I haven't blamed anyone else that I wasn't looking out for all the missing dots, so you can stop saying it's only my own fault like you've got to wave a flag highlighting it as an error, over and over. I could easily do that to you since you've admitted above you were wrong, but I'm not that petty.

I said it twice. Once in the original post, and once in the second post rewording what I said originally when you misunderstood it.

You can say "I wasn't talking in any way shape or form about them" the Red Ace & Blue Ace, but you did make fun of my posting the links, with your "Good for them. Don't they feel special" remark so that isn't true. They have dots, that's why I brought them up, so I don't think you read clearly what you quoted and I had to assume were responding to because you quoted it. Why quote what I said if you're not going to read it, but rather pontificate on something else.

Once again, the post in question never refered to red or blue ace. A completely separate response to your post about them did (in a post that was, again, out of context in response to mine, because you were responding to something I didn't actually say. Hence the later post clarifying what I meant).

My original point could have been expressed using more words to make it clearer: I could make a squad full of generic Rogue Aces and that wouldn't seem right to me given the unique Aces that exist officially already. That's all, I don't need a list of generic y-wings that may not be Aces, generic Starvipers that may not be Aces, or whatever else as examples of contest entries that are may or may not be Aces. That's you ignoring what I said, or making up something else, so you can try to contradict my point.

Given that pretty much every pilot in rogue squadron IS an Ace (or becomes one if they weren't when they starte din the squadron - the definition being that they've shot down 5 enemy pilots in combat), i have no problem with a squadron full of "Rogue Squadron Aces" And you can already do it with Black Sun Aces, so...

I never once talked about other generic "Aces" in my original post. I was talking about generics period since that's what you'd been complaining about earlier with regards to Rogue Squadron Ace (my previous post to the one in question, which you were responding to, said: "rogue ace wasnt the only generic submitted". At the time, you hadn't mentioned that you thought he should be unique because of "Ace" in the name.)

Not to mention on top of that, after all that, you're contradicting yourself saying: "The Rogue Squadron Ace isn't generic."

Congratulations, I wrote the wrong word, I must be completely wrong about everything. Edited my post to fix it to where it was supposed to say "The Rogue Squadron Ace isn't unique

If you don't like Rogue Squadron Ace being a generic, go create your own version to submit to the next round where he's unique with an ability and quit whining about it here. If enough people agree with you, your version will win.

If you don't like Rogue Squadron Ace being a generic, go create your own version to submit to the next round where he's unique with an ability and quit whining about it here. If enough people agree with you, your version will win.

Actually, I can see you still don't know where you are or what you're talking about:

This is where they get submitted for the next round,

I clarified that with BG, so it is also HERE where it would get discussed.

Funny, so is that often your response to people who disagree with you,

call them whining. All I did was clarify my point with examples.

On the other hand you can't get over having to admit you were wrong,

so you keep bringing up something that I've let go of many posts ago, right after

BG clarified that he should not have used the word "Unique" in the original post.

It doesn't matter to me if there are generic Aces, that doesn't make it cool with me.

You can't brush aside real official unique X-wing aces with scum generic aces,

they both exist, but Rogue Squadron X-wing Ace is just a custom made up card.

The X-wing Aces whether they are T-65 or T-70 already have a precedent in Red/Blue.

Well, this custom card league quickly hit the wall.

Thanks for all the hard work Babaganoosh, but if we are gonna have players participating who are going to pout every time things don't fall their way exactly as they like, even when they have numerous cards already selected, I don't think this is worth my time at the moment. I'll keep an eye on things and if it gets a bit better I'll consider participating at a later date.

Just a note- you should follow through on limiting the number of submissions per player for the next time you do this for sure. I think it would help participants not feel cheated when other players submissions win due to having 20+ submissions over the competition.

Have fun you guys!

If you don't like Rogue Squadron Ace being a generic, go create your own version to submit to the next round where he's unique with an ability and quit whining about it here. If enough people agree with you, your version will win.

Actually, I can see you still don't know where you are or what you're talking about:

This is where they get submitted for the next round,

I clarified that with BG, so it is also HERE where it would get discussed.

And we've been discussing it. And we clearly disagree. Hence my suggesting you make a unique version if that's what you want and submit it for round 2 and people can vote for whichever they prefer. However much you argue or discuss it, the generic version will be in the second round of voting since it was the option voted in during the first round.

Funny, so is that often your response to people who disagree with you,

call them whining.

When else have I accused other people of whining? I called you a whiner in this case because I feel like it's exactly what you're doing. It seems like you've complained every step of the way.

You didn't like how votes were counted when the ships were announced.

You didn't like that there was a generic pilot when pilots were announced

Then when you accepted that, you didn't like that THIS specific pilot was generic instead of unique

You didn't like that your mara jade z95 didn't make it (stating that you're disappointed is fine. you did more than that, and more than once).

You didn't like that your jabba crew didn't make it instead of a different one, despite the fact that you had, what, 8 other upgrades selected? To the point that you were asking if you could just submit your version as an alternative to the selected one.

All I did was clarify my point with examples.

On the other hand you can't get over having to admit you were wrong,

so you keep bringing up something that I've let go of many posts ago, right after

BG clarified that he should not have used the word "Unique" in the original post.

Not even sure what you mean here. If you mean talking about other generics in the submissions, the only time I've "kept bringing it up" is to point to that it's what my original post (when you apparnelty thought I was talkig about something to do with other "aces") that you misinterpreted was talking about. I'm perfectly happy to let that part go since it's irrelevant to the discussion of whether rogue squadron ace should be unique.

It doesn't matter to me if there are generic Aces, that doesn't make it cool with me.

You can't brush aside real official unique X-wing aces with scum generic aces,

they both exist, but Rogue Squadron X-wing Ace is just a custom made up card.

...so...I can't "brush away" the unique x-wing aces but you can brush away the generic scum ace. Gotcha. makes sense. Never mind that i wasn't brushing them away, just pointing out that just because there's existing "Ace" pilots that are unique, there's also an existing "Ace" that isn't unique, and doesn't mean that all NEW "Ace" pilots have to be unique as well.

And the custom made up card thing applies to both sides of the argument. it can be whatever the person who made it wants it to be. Another alternative since you're so hung up on the "Ace" name with it being generic is to just rename it to "Rogue Squadron Pilot".

The X-wing Aces whether they are T-65 or T-70 already have a precedent in Red/Blue.

I'd like to point out that Red and Blue Ace (and, indeed, every unique "Ace" pilot we have) came from either the TFA core set (that came out on force friday) or the T70 and TIE/FO expansoin packs (that released alongside the movie). And I'll remind you that Disney was really tightlipped about TFA, and the only pilots I recall us officially knowing the name for when FFG would have been developing them were Poe and Ello. Who, coincidentally, are the only actual named pilots in any of those 3 sets. Beyond that we have a bunch of generically named unique pilots because they didn't KNOW any names to give them. The developers have said they weren't told much ahead of time - as evidenced by Poe only being given PS8, and having to be updated to PS9 in the heroes of the resistance. I'm would be willing to bet that if they'd been ablet o they'd have much rather been able to make Snaps, Jess and Nien Numb as unique pilots in the core and T70 instead of having to do generic "Red Ace" and "Blue Ace". But they couldn't. We got a bunch of generically named fo pilots as well for presumably the same reason.

Rogue Squadron on the other hand, we have a TON of named pilot options. We don't NEED a generically named ace pilot because we have a whole lot of aces to choose from. So there's no reason it CAN"T be an actual generic instead.

Well, this custom card league quickly hit the wall.

Thanks for all the hard work Babaganoosh, but if we are gonna have players participating who are going to pout every time things don't fall their way exactly as they like, even when they have numerous cards already selected, I don't think this is worth my time at the moment. I'll keep an eye on things and if it gets a bit better I'll consider participating at a later date.

Just a note- you should follow through on limiting the number of submissions per player for the next time you do this for sure. I think it would help participants not feel cheated when other players submissions win due to having 20+ submissions over the competition.

Have fun you guys!

Sorry to hear that Kdubb; you had some great ideas here and I hope we get you back soon.

Let's try to keep things civil on the CCL threads, guys.

Yeah dude, Gabe, i'm sorry, but you need to hurry up and get over it. People didn't like your idea. End of story. None of my custom cards got voted in, but i didnt waste a page of the thread bitching and moaning about it. It's a contest. You lost. I lost, twice, both for the custom cards and custom ships. I'm fine with my losses; are you?

You seem to have this idea that your submissions deserve to win over everyone else's for whatever reason you want, and frankly thats really disgusting, arrogant, and egotistical. It's really bothering me, and it's actively driving people from participating. Please stop.

It's obvious to me that you're the ones that need to get over it.

You keep saying I'm really complaining that more of my cards didn't win, when I haven't said any such thing, as though saying that lie over and over again is going to make it true. I was disappointed about many cards not making it just much as anyone else, not any more so. But my point was a specific generic card and I made that point. And then what I said got twisted and taken out context to suggest something not true, of course I'm going to have to defend that and correct misquote and misuse of my posts. And then on top of that my defending my original point is made to look like something it isn't, made to look like I want more of my cards to have won, which is false that isn't my purpose, it's twisting my words. So I have to continue to clarify what I was saying so the lying and twisting of what said doesn't end up on top looking like the truth, what happens then is that I'm accused of not letting go that not enough of my cards won. Which isn't true, you're attacking me because you are jealous, I don't need more of my cards to have won, that completely false and if you're going to keep repeating that falsehood and then use it as an excuse to leave, then I say good riddance.

The thread is for discussion of ships, and that's what I have been doing; You on the other hand have making yourselves mad because you don't like my using the thread they way it's supposed to be used (talking about ship submission) and you disagree with me so you are looking for other petty tangent reasons to attack me personally rather than deal with the ship issue I have raised. It's smoke screen, you're the ones who need to let go of this ulterior motive you have concocted. When you choose to spin things a certain way, you make yourselves annoyed, you're the one's to blame, you have no business blaming me.

Also just calling a spade a spade, I think any suggestion of limiting submissions is just plain jealously, as though people should be limited in good choices to assuage other people's bruised ego.

Yeah; put any submissions in the thread where the winners for that category were announced, please.

Continuing to make my points on the X-wing, I also believe it's nonsensical for any X-wing pilot considered an "Ace" level pilot to have only a pilot skill of 4.

So have said that, this is the "alternate version" I would submit:

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

^^^^ This is what this thread is for, you're the one's misusing it by making false accusations.

[reserved for other alternate submissions]

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

Wrong deadline, this will be revised when the time comes.

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

So for actual card discussion, I'd probably say this should be at least a point more with making it a unique and giving it an ability.

24 with an EPT was already priced aggressively for a PS5 with an EPT. The PS4 generic (or ps3 unique) without an EPT is 23 points, generlly speaking it's about 1 pt per PS and 1 point for EPT. The two existing PS5 pilots are both 25 points with no EPT. Given that this one has an EPT and a pilot ability, I would say it should probably be at least 25. Maybe even 26 for having the EPT over the existing PS5 uniques, but I could see an argument to keep it the same price, partly due to the fact that the ability relies on an allied ship to trigger it.

I do like that the ability encourages you to actually fly more x-wings. I actually think it would be a good title card for rogue squadron (though as a title might need to be dialed back), though it's obviously too late to do that for the league this time around.

It's obvious to me that you're the ones that need to get over it.

You keep saying I'm really complaining that more of my cards didn't win, when I haven't said any such thing, as though saying that lie over and over again is going to make it true. I was disappointed about many cards not making it just much as anyone else, not any more so. But my point was a specific generic card and I made that point. And then what I said got twisted and taken out context to suggest something not true, of course I'm going to have to defend that and correct misquote and misuse of my posts. And then on top of that my defending my original point is made to look like something it isn't, made to look like I want more of my cards to have won, which is false that isn't my purpose, it's twisting my words. So I have to continue to clarify what I was saying so the lying and twisting of what said doesn't end up on top looking like the truth, what happens then is that I'm accused of not letting go that not enough of my cards won. Which isn't true, you're attacking me because you are jealous, I don't need more of my cards to have won, that completely false and if you're going to keep repeating that falsehood and then use it as an excuse to leave, then I say good riddance.

The thread is for discussion of ships, and that's what I have been doing; You on the other hand have making yourselves mad because you don't like my using the thread they way it's supposed to be used (talking about ship submission) and you disagree with me so you are looking for other petty tangent reasons to attack me personally rather than deal with the ship issue I have raised. It's smoke screen, you're the ones who need to let go of this ulterior motive you have concocted. When you choose to spin things a certain way, you make yourselves annoyed, you're the one's to blame, you have no business blaming me.

Also just calling a spade a spade, I think any suggestion of limiting submissions is just plain jealously, as though people should be limited in good choices to assuage other people's bruised ego.

Continuing to make my points on the X-wing, I also believe it's nonsensical for any X-wing pilot considered an "Ace" level pilot to have only a pilot skill of 4.

So have said that, this is the "alternate version" I would submit:

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

^^^^ This is what this thread is for, you're the one's misusing it by making false accusations.

In my opinion this card is not an alteration of a card that has made the voting. It serves a completely different purpose from the one that's voted in, and is not an alteration but instead a completely new pilot. The card that made the vote had the purpose of being a generic with an EPT, that is not what this is. Babaganoosh stated that allowable alterations are ones that retain the general purpose of the original.

It's obvious to me that you're the ones that need to get over it.

You keep saying I'm really complaining that more of my cards didn't win, when I haven't said any such thing, as though saying that lie over and over again is going to make it true. I was disappointed about many cards not making it just much as anyone else, not any more so. But my point was a specific generic card and I made that point. And then what I said got twisted and taken out context to suggest something not true, of course I'm going to have to defend that and correct misquote and misuse of my posts. And then on top of that my defending my original point is made to look like something it isn't, made to look like I want more of my cards to have won, which is false that isn't my purpose, it's twisting my words. So I have to continue to clarify what I was saying so the lying and twisting of what said doesn't end up on top looking like the truth, what happens then is that I'm accused of not letting go that not enough of my cards won. Which isn't true, you're attacking me because you are jealous, I don't need more of my cards to have won, that completely false and if you're going to keep repeating that falsehood and then use it as an excuse to leave, then I say good riddance.

The thread is for discussion of ships, and that's what I have been doing; You on the other hand have making yourselves mad because you don't like my using the thread they way it's supposed to be used (talking about ship submission) and you disagree with me so you are looking for other petty tangent reasons to attack me personally rather than deal with the ship issue I have raised. It's smoke screen, you're the ones who need to let go of this ulterior motive you have concocted. When you choose to spin things a certain way, you make yourselves annoyed, you're the one's to blame, you have no business blaming me.

Also just calling a spade a spade, I think any suggestion of limiting submissions is just plain jealously, as though people should be limited in good choices to assuage other people's bruised ego.

Continuing to make my points on the X-wing, I also believe it's nonsensical for any X-wing pilot considered an "Ace" level pilot to have only a pilot skill of 4.

So have said that, this is the "alternate version" I would submit:

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

^^^^ This is what this thread is for, you're the one's misusing it by making false accusations.

In my opinion this card is not an alteration of a card that has made the voting. It serves a completely different purpose from the one that's voted in, and is not an alteration but instead a completely new pilot. The card that made the vote had the purpose of being a generic with an EPT, that is not what this is. Babaganoosh stated that allowable alterations are ones that retain the general purpose of the original.

Personally I would agree, but I'm letting babaganoosh make the call on that and just keeping to discussion about the actual card itself.

It's obvious to me that you're the ones that need to get over it.

You keep saying I'm really complaining that more of my cards didn't win, when I haven't said any such thing, as though saying that lie over and over again is going to make it true. I was disappointed about many cards not making it just much as anyone else, not any more so. But my point was a specific generic card and I made that point. And then what I said got twisted and taken out context to suggest something not true, of course I'm going to have to defend that and correct misquote and misuse of my posts. And then on top of that my defending my original point is made to look like something it isn't, made to look like I want more of my cards to have won, which is false that isn't my purpose, it's twisting my words. So I have to continue to clarify what I was saying so the lying and twisting of what said doesn't end up on top looking like the truth, what happens then is that I'm accused of not letting go that not enough of my cards won. Which isn't true, you're attacking me because you are jealous, I don't need more of my cards to have won, that completely false and if you're going to keep repeating that falsehood and then use it as an excuse to leave, then I say good riddance.

The thread is for discussion of ships, and that's what I have been doing; You on the other hand have making yourselves mad because you don't like my using the thread they way it's supposed to be used (talking about ship submission) and you disagree with me so you are looking for other petty tangent reasons to attack me personally rather than deal with the ship issue I have raised. It's smoke screen, you're the ones who need to let go of this ulterior motive you have concocted. When you choose to spin things a certain way, you make yourselves annoyed, you're the one's to blame, you have no business blaming me.

Also just calling a spade a spade, I think any suggestion of limiting submissions is just plain jealously, as though people should be limited in good choices to assuage other people's bruised ego.

Continuing to make my points on the X-wing, I also believe it's nonsensical for any X-wing pilot considered an "Ace" level pilot to have only a pilot skill of 4.

So have said that, this is the "alternate version" I would submit:

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

^^^^ This is what this thread is for, you're the one's misusing it by making false accusations.

In my opinion this card is not an alteration of a card that has made the voting. It serves a completely different purpose from the one that's voted in, and is not an alteration but instead a completely new pilot. The card that made the vote had the purpose of being a generic with an EPT, that is not what this is. Babaganoosh stated that allowable alterations are ones that retain the general purpose of the original.

Personally I would agree, but I'm letting babaganoosh make the call on that and just keeping to discussion about the actual card itself.

Yeah, I think making the rogue ace unique and giving it an ability changes the basic idea of the pilot too much. It was supposed to be a generic with EPT, but this is a unique pilot with an ability.

Yeah, I think making the rogue ace unique and giving it an ability changes the basic idea of the pilot too much. It was supposed to be a generic with EPT, but this is a unique pilot with an ability.

So finally getting around to beginning to clarify what's too much of a change for an "alternative;" I've only asked what is it now about three times.

Well if you are not allowing that because it's too much then I can scale back,

but definitely no "Aces" PS4 or lower please.

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

If you want quicker answers, you'll have to give me a raise. I want at least 50%.

If you want quicker answers, you'll have to give me a raise. I want at least 50%.

Give yourself 50% more votes then.

I updated the submission above.

Xeal, 5 dice HLC......

I want this to be a real pilot when the Gunboat comes out.

Yeah, I think making the rogue ace unique and giving it an ability changes the basic idea of the pilot too much. It was supposed to be a generic with EPT, but this is a unique pilot with an ability.

So finally getting around to beginning to clarify what's too much of a change for an "alternative;" I've only asked what is it now about three times.

Well if you are not allowing that because it's too much then I can scale back,

but definitely no "Aces" PS4 or lower please.

░▒▓█ FINAL SUBMISSION █▓▒░

Everyone is also invited to submit unique pilot cards and upgrades for these ships - the deadline for unique pilot and upgrade submissions is midnight Wednesday.

I think you meant to link to this thread and you ended up using a link to your original first CCG contest thread.

Am I right that you meant this thread? and since we all live in different time zones, a date and time always helps.

My updated version of "Reach". All that's been done is a change of her pilot skill from 7 to 8, as she is now the upper echelon of the V-Wing in terms of PS, and i wanted her PS to make her more competitive at the higher PS levels.

Updated version of my Yrsa Haru. Although I like to have clear and crisp and as short text as possible I tried to clarify a bit, taking Tycho Celchu's wording as template. Hope now it is OK with all the rules experts (not a native speaker).

You might change the wording to "When you are about to receive a stress token, you may first perform a free barrel roll action."

You might change the wording to "When you are about to receive a stress token, you may first perform a free barrel roll action."

I think this was my suggestion at one point. Though it does change it slightly, since his version will work even if you started out stressed and are getting another one, while this way only works if you start unstressed.

You might change the wording to "When you are about to receive a stress token, you may first perform a free barrel roll action."

I think this was my suggestion at one point. Though it does change it slightly, since his version will work even if you started out stressed and are getting another one, while this way only works if you start unstressed.

Oh yeah, huh. There is a pretty big difference there. You still will only be able to BR once per round, but if you do happen to get another stress token you could still BR, like from R3-A2, Tactician, or Rebel Captive.