When I find myself at stores for a games night I usually have three lists prepared:

One I want to be good at, that I know has potential to kick butt but not 100% with.

One that I think is silly, could have a game where it does amazingly well or a game where it fails completely.

or

One that's an old favourite from Meta's past that is viable but struggles to be 100% viable these days.

I choose one based on how "competitive" my opponent's list seems. I would whip out number three for Palp aces but might see how it does against U-boats, for example.

Funny enough, the only casual players I see most of the time are on here. Locally most people like to play whatever, but tend to be competitive mind set and we like to play the 100/6 as some call it most of the time. To say that is boring though, is surprising. We all are still trying new lists with new ways of flying and I've played since the beginning, with at least 3 games a week (less recently though). If you find that boring, I think you might just not enjoy what the game was built for, which is fine, but there is a lot of variance out there still. Yes the more popular lists tend to crop up, but thats any game, period.

The reason I play tournaments is because it's a day of X-wing, with some notoriety, and if playing at larger events, the chance to play new people with new takes on the game. That to me, is where I enjoy it the most. People will surprise you when you are use to playing Billy Boy tie pilot from around the corner and here comes Steve McGee the scummiest of scum that flew something you never thought would work.

The moment any of the players closes off an avenue of this game cause they deem it not the game though, they are only hurting themselves. And frankly the community. I know for one I was kinda let down when I saw a new group playing and it was a 35 point brawl. I asked when they started playing and if I could join in next game. They told me no cause they didn't wanna get destroyed by some top tier tournament player (I am the area's person to beat, and apparently they heard). Which might of been true, but I had an idea for a scum hwk I really thought would be fun... All I wanted was to get included and have fun with them. Sadly I never saw them again either.

I will never get the whole WAAC argument, or the other. Everyone plays how they want. Some tend to be more strict, but they are doing nothing wrong, and some prefer to be a go with the flow type, which is fine and dandy as well. I have played in enough tournaments, in enough cities, to know you most likely won't run across someone that is going make the game unfun, because most people are there to have fun and play a game that involves their fandom, or a game with a really good game structure, but more than likely both.

People just need to stop tearing each other down when it comes to this front, it helps no one, just causes more harm.

I will never get the whole WAAC argument, or the other. Everyone plays how they want. Some tend to be more strict, but they are doing nothing wrong, and some prefer to be a go with the flow type, which is fine and dandy as well. I have played in enough tournaments, in enough cities, to know you most likely won't run across someone that is going make the game unfun, because most people are there to have fun and play a game that involves their fandom, or a game with a really good game structure, but more than likely both.

We've had players that pretend to be laid back to lull their opponent then suddenly become incredibly strict at the most advantageous moment. We've had players deliberately not call an opponent out on a recurring rules mistake so that they keep doing it, then suddenly call them out for it when it suits them best. We've had players ask for takebacks, get them, then refuse their opponent the same later on.

They aren't common but they certainly exist.

I will never get the whole WAAC argument, or the other. Everyone plays how they want. Some tend to be more strict, but they are doing nothing wrong, and some prefer to be a go with the flow type, which is fine and dandy as well. I have played in enough tournaments, in enough cities, to know you most likely won't run across someone that is going make the game unfun, because most people are there to have fun and play a game that involves their fandom, or a game with a really good game structure, but more than likely both.

We've had players that pretend to be laid back to lull their opponent then suddenly become incredibly strict at the most advantageous moment. We've had players deliberately not call an opponent out on a recurring rules mistake so that they keep doing it, then suddenly call them out for it when it suits them best. We've had players ask for takebacks, get them, then refuse their opponent the same later on.

They aren't common but they certainly exist.

Why don't they just get good and stop making mistakes?

The division, from my experience, can only be found in the forums. X-wing players are friendly and generally non-combative. For a forum to be interesting, there needs to be conflict. Other wise, every topic would look like this:

Sunshine1:

I love, X-wing! Don't you?

Rainbows72:

You said it Sunshine1! There is nothing better than X-wing!

SirHugsALot:

Sunshine1:

I love, X-wing! Don't you?

Rainbows72:

You said it Sunshine1! There is nothing better than X-wing!

This is the best topic I've read today! Likes to both of you!!

I think a lot of this is accidental. It's simply a matter of people making false assumptions that the other person they are communicating with is on the same wavelength. If everyone knew how competitive/casual each other person they interacted with was, this wouldn't really be an issue. Then, if people had issues because someone was a casual or a competitive player, they are just being ignorant. It's all the same core game that we love, for whatever reasons those are.

My only deal is with people who take this game too seriously. I mean, I'm competitive, and when I go to a store or other tournament I take a better list then I would if I was just messing around on casual meetups. But I have encountered people who don't seem to realize that, when it all comes down to it, we are grown adults playing with little plastic space ships. When people are stand offish, or get mad at dice or being out flown, refuse to talk or interact or joke during a match; those people are way to serious and kind of dicks.

It's possible to be competitive and not come off as a jerk, and most people I play with are fine, but then there are a few that ruin it for everyone.

those people are way to serious and kind of dicks.

While I'll agree in general, you should be careful about using too broad of a brush to judge people.

There are no doubt people who who take the game too seriously and are jerks about it. But just because someone doesn't chat or joke during the game doesn't mean they're being jerks.

They could simply be socially awkward and/or shy and so they put their head down and play because they aren't comfortable engaging with strangers. Or they could be nervous about playing and so they're very focused on getting the procedures correct. Maybe they're just not that good at the game and it takes all their focus to avoid massive mistakes. Maybe they're just not that smart and have to focus because they can't multitask well.

I mean yes miniature games are a social event, and if I sat down across from someone who wouldn't chat I'd find that a less enjoyable experience... But I wouldn't assume they were being a jerk without some other behavior to back that up.

Something I saw at Regionals once where the guy did nothing but complain about his dice and how X-Wing was a pure dice game and if skill mattered he'd be at the top table, and then even started asking if someone wanted to buy his collection.

That's simply untrue. The players you describe and the opposite of them are found under every banner.

While that is true, the Militant Casual is every bit as much of a problem on this boards as the worse WAAC type. There are some here who will make it abundantly clear that they think casual play is the one and only Orthodox way to play the game and tournament players are little more than heathens. It's done all the time with thinly veiled insults and word choices. They take every chance they get to take shots at competitive players

Casual players that want to play competitive like to use proxies. They try to justify why they won't buy a ship for a card you must have for tournaments. They'll give any excuse to why it shouldn't be ok to proxy.

That's simply untrue. The players you describe and the opposite of them are found under every banner.

While that is true, the Militant Casual is every bit as much of a problem on this boards as the worse WAAC type. There are some here who will make it abundantly clear that they think casual play is the one and only Orthodox way to play the game and tournament players are little more than heathens. It's done all the time with thinly veiled insults and word choices. They take every chance they get to take shots at competitive players

I don't disagree, but I would offer a word of caution. Please keep in mind that there is a big difference between someone who exclusively plays one way or the other, and someone who insists that their way to play is the only way and everyone else is wrong.

I think some of the misunderstanding comes in when people see that another player prefers playing one way and assume that it means that player is disrespecting other forms of play.

I think some of the misunderstanding comes in when people see that another player prefers playing one way and assume that it means that player is disrespecting other forms of play.

Oh I agree, there's no doubt that people have been written off as a 'dirty casual' just because they prefer things like HotAC or 150 point games or such. But there are people who post here who behave as I mentioned, that their opinion on what makes X-Wing fun is in fact the 'One true way' and anyone who doesn't play that way is not only doing it wrong, but is a bad person.

To once again break out my favorite example of such... We had some time ago, someone here who insisted that there was nothing wrong with moving several of his ships with the same PS at the same time and then taking actions with them.

And while in casual play that's fine, and perhaps even in some cases for competitive games... I think everyone would agree that if the other guy asks you not to do it, then you should move and perform actions for each ship one at a time, especially if you're at a tournament.

Well this guy not only accused me of interpreting the rules in the most strict way possible, because apparently the plain RAW was the most strict way possible... He actually said he'd assault anyone who didn't let him play that way.

This guy was of course an extreme example, but is an example nonetheless.

Cant FFG do different "weight" classes? Like a 60pt, 80pt, 100pt.

Maybe even perhaps a rebel tourney, imperial tourney, and scum tourney. Top from each faction, go into a playoffs bracket.

Could even do small ship only championships, large ship only. Two ship championship.

Then worlds can be all the champs from their regionals in the different tourneys being invited. Kind of like an Olympics of xwing.

Just make the 100pt match the main event to keep it as the "standard" gameplay.

I admit I didn't read every post in this thread. At work so gotta keep it brief. While IIRC FFG is slowly moving in this direction I believe that more varied "official" tournaments would greatly expand the Org. Play for more players. it could be by format, point value, skill level (ie. You can only fly in the Novice class if you have never won a store championship) or any of the other suggestions made in this thread. More ways for a newer or more frugal player to still officially compete at some level.

The analogy I've used before is the World Series of Poker. While No Limit Texas Hold'em is the premiere or "Standard" event there are over a dozen other formats that award World Series Championship during the World Series. FFG could have a Limited Series World Champ, an Open Series World Champ, an Epic Series World Champ, or whatever divisions they wanted.

Now let me plug my own personal idea: A format allowing ONLY ships, pilots, and upgrades found in one of the Core Sets. X-wings and TIEs slugging it out with minimal upgrades and generic squads are facing off against a few known pilots. Easy entry point both from a learning standpoint and a financial one. Player skill would really shine here I think.

I think some of the misunderstanding comes in when people see that another player prefers playing one way and assume that it means that player is disrespecting other forms of play.

Oh I agree, there's no doubt that people have been written off as a 'dirty casual' just because they prefer things like HotAC or 150 point games or such. But there are people who post here who behave as I mentioned, that their opinion on what makes X-Wing fun is in fact the 'One true way' and anyone who doesn't play that way is not only doing it wrong, but is a bad person.

To once again break out my favorite example of such... We had some time ago, someone here who insisted that there was nothing wrong with moving several of his ships with the same PS at the same time and then taking actions with them.

And while in casual play that's fine, and perhaps even in some cases for competitive games... I think everyone would agree that if the other guy asks you not to do it, then you should move and perform actions for each ship one at a time, especially if you're at a tournament.

Well this guy not only accused me of interpreting the rules in the most strict way possible, because apparently the plain RAW was the most strict way possible... He actually said he'd assault anyone who didn't let him play that way.

This guy was of course an extreme example, but is an example nonetheless.

Yes, that kind of player would be aggravating to deal with.

Glad to see we're on the same page (page #2 of the topic, specifically).

(1) As several have already said, there are a lot of people here with different preferences and styles of play, and sometimes that least to mild conflict.

(2) Some people enjoy stirring up trouble, and will seize on any excuse to do so.

Glad to see we're on the same page (page #2 of the topic, specifically).

First off, nice

Second, yes I have no issue with casual players, I tend to be competitive myself, I go to tournaments, store championship, regionals, ect... My X-Wing league plays 100 point games and we all tend to stick to the rules pretty tightly. If a ship is off by a fraction of an inch, it's off, for example.

But I have no issue with casual players and I've run the HotAC campaign at my league, I play fun games from time to time, I have 150 point and epic lists...

What bothers me however is anyone who feels that their way to play is the 'right' way and anyone who disagrees is wrong. What bothers me most however is people who take it way too far, and start insulting people who don't play like them.

No doubt the competitive types do so from time to time, but so do the casuals and I think that needs to be kept firmly in mind, they however are more passive aggressive about it. Perhaps that's the issue it's not quite as easy to see.

But when someone makes a comment like "No I don't play tournaments because I like to have fun rather then play with a bunch of WAAC jerks" make no doubt, they're being every bit as judgmental as the competitive person is when they talk about dirty casuals.

Casual players that want to play competitive like to use proxies. They try to justify why they won't buy a ship for a card you must have for tournaments. They'll give any excuse to why it shouldn't be ok to proxy.

What is a casual player that wants to play competitive? That sounds like someone somewhere in-between the 'strict casual' and 'strict competitive' categories... AKA a normal person.

Also, broad brush much? I co-host the only casual x-wing podcast and I've never proxied a card in competitive play in my life.

Now, this results in a bit of cross porpoises sometimes

Is there a particular way you keep the porpoises in a constant state of agitation? And what do you feed them?

Glad to see we're on the same page (page #2 of the topic, specifically).

First off, nice

Second, yes I have no issue with casual players, I tend to be competitive myself, I go to tournaments, store championship, regionals, ect... My X-Wing league plays 100 point games and we all tend to stick to the rules pretty tightly. If a ship is off by a fraction of an inch, it's off, for example.

But I have no issue with casual players and I've run the HotAC campaign at my league, I play fun games from time to time, I have 150 point and epic lists...

What bothers me however is anyone who feels that their way to play is the 'right' way and anyone who disagrees is wrong. What bothers me most however is people who take it way too far, and start insulting people who don't play like them.

No doubt the competitive types do so from time to time, but so do the casuals and I think that needs to be kept firmly in mind, they however are more passive aggressive about it. Perhaps that's the issue it's not quite as easy to see.

But when someone makes a comment like "No I don't play tournaments because I like to have fun rather then play with a bunch of WAAC jerks" make no doubt, they're being every bit as judgmental as the competitive person is when they talk about dirty casuals.

Completely understandable. Also, after re-reading my initial comment, I realize I may have been a bit more ambiguous than I'd have liked. My "word of caution" was not directed at you, specifically, nor was it made because I thought you were getting close to that. Rather, it was meant as a general remark for all to keep in mind, and I simply quoted your post as it was around that time I noticed posts could be going in that direction, even though they hadn't quite yet.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Casual players that want to play competitive like to use proxies. They try to justify why they won't buy a ship for a card you must have for tournaments. They'll give any excuse to why it shouldn't be ok to proxy.

I wasn't even aware that all casual players used proxies. Do the ones who don't, normally, suddenly want to use them just because they're entering a tournament?

And for me, there is ONLY "Fly Casual". With a job that requires 50-60 hours a week just to stay ahead, a wife who I'm crazy in love with and two kids under 3, finding the time to go and play in a tournament is a luxury that I just can't afford.

I think there is a lot that FFG could do to cater to the "Fly Casual" crowd (beyond the article they posted a while back) but the idea that tournaments are the be-all and end-all of this game is short-sighted and narrow-minded nonsense.

I'd like to start off saying that I think the majority of X-wing players out there in the world are in the middle. They like Casual games and they like Tournament games. They don't feel strongly either way. There is no tension. Practicing for tournaments happens until the end of Regionals, and then people get burnt out and want to try other things.

My personal feeling is that the division between casuals and competitives is almost exclusively an artefact of us belonging to an online community. In real life, you quickly figure out who plays like you and you naturally group together. In this forum, players of many backgrounds and preferences are all coming to discuss the game they love. That's beautiful! The trouble is that we are not always specific about our comments and our generalizations. This leads to misunderstandings that can get heated and we start to see a divide.

Usually because advice is given without specifying which kind of game they are helping someone play.

I absolutely agree that the worst of it happens on these forums due to us all being really into a game enough to go to the forums and write lots of posts about the game we love. We are more than willing to get into lengthy dialogues about it and perhaps might get a bit emotional about this game. So, representation on the FFG forums may not reflect real life.

Also, the worst problems come up when people do post something that is a bit vague. No one knows if you are talking about tournament or casual games. "Is the Kihraxz Fighter good?" type topics. Well, the tournament player will immediately say heck no. It was Dead On Arrival for the tournament scene. I'll point to how I used one last night to awesome effect in my B-list game. He was the hero of the match! His Evade dice were hot and lived through several turns of concentrated shots. Managed to get a R1 shot on Han and dish out 3 hits and a crit! He was well worth his points and I thought he was great. Someone else will respond that there has never been a list at the top tables of Regionals that uses a Kihraxz Fighter and it's a horrible ship. So....the vague posts like that really bring out the conflict.

I will say that there are some threads that I'll just ignore because they obviously state they are wanting to talk tournament gaming in the title. Or...I'll open a thread....start to read it...and realize they are talking about tournament stuff. I'll just back out and not even finish the thread. I appreciate it when it's obvious so I don't have to get stuck in it and into a disagreement over a confusion.

Only thing that is bad for this game is sense of entitlement coming from some of the casual players. Tournament players don't care what list you bring, don't care how you play the game and what you find fun in X-Wing. They find fun in rivalry and don't try to force upon their view of this game on others. Competitive players are the most tolerant of all X-Wing players.

Also I don't understand what is wrong in criticizing posted squad lists. The whole point of posting lists is to hear opinion of others. If you are competitve player this criticism can be valuable, but if you are casual gamer and you feel offended that someone criticise your list what was the point in publishing said list in the first place? To hear some empty, useless words of appreciation with no real meaning? After all if you are casual gamer it doesn't matter what list you play - as long as you have fun. What is the point then in asking people about your list?

I would not say that tournament players are the most tolerant X-wing players. Oh, I'm not saying there aren't tolerant tournament players, but I know some guys that certainly aren't tolerant. You get people in every group that aren't tolerant. It's just the way it is.

As for people posting squad ideas and such, I have seen plenty of tournament types that just won't really read the original post. Someone will say something like "Hey, I want to find a Dengar list that doesn't use PTL and x crew. Any good suggestions?" You will surely find a couple of people that just post that he has to have PTL, Engine Upgrade, and x crew. So, that can be annoying. Once again, I think it comes down to what the person actually posts. If they say they are looking for something beyond the tournament meta, then sure....I can see that they don't want to see responses that are just tournament meta. If they don't post, then no problem.

One question I have is about the sense of entitlement that casual players have. What sense of entitlement? I don't understand.

The division, from my experience, can only be found in the forums.

Every local gaming community is different. I know some guys that refuse to play any type of game other than tournament types. I know people that refuse to play tournament games. The difference tends to be a lot more civil, though. I think the worst case has been some eye rolling or a soft ball comment about "kiddie version of X-wing", but that's it.

There are some areas that have a serious tournament mindset and it can be quite difficult to find local players that are interested in doing something other than tournament games.

While that is true, the Militant Casual is every bit as much of a problem on this boards as the worse WAAC type. There are some here who will make it abundantly clear that they think casual play is the one and only Orthodox way to play the game and tournament players are little more than heathens. It's done all the time with thinly veiled insults and word choices. They take every chance they get to take shots at competitive players

While I like to consider myself an advocate for Casual X-wing, I am not against Tournament X-wing. I have no problem with people playing 100 pt Tournament and having fun with it. I like to talk about the Casual aspect, but I wouldn't consider myself "Militant Casual". I hope people don't consider me such. If you want to play Tournament X-wing, then good for you. I just like to talk about the Casual side and remind people that there are more ways to play the game than 100 pt deathmatch.

It's not a huge deal but I have noticed a clear divergence here. Some people are all about the competetive scene, others only care about casual play, and then there's people like me, somewhere in between. Anyway there just seems to be some flack that gets thrown around fairly regularly, from discounting lists that are meant to be casual, or claiming that competetive less thematic lists ruin the game. My opinion is it's just a game and I love both types of squads. But seriously, why the flack? I just don't see why the passions need run so high when we are all just sharing thoughts on a hobby. I don't know, it's just my crazy opinion for the day.

Only thing that is bad for this game is sense of entitlement coming from some of the casual players. Tournament players don't care what list you bring, don't care how you play the game and what you find fun in X-Wing. They find fun in rivalry and don't try to force upon their view of this game on others. Competitive players are the most tolerant of all X-Wing players.

Also I don't understand what is wrong in criticizing posted squad lists. The whole point of posting lists is to hear opinion of others. If you are competitve player this criticism can be valuable, but if you are casual gamer and you feel offended that someone criticise your list what was the point in publishing said list in the first place? To hear some empty, useless words of appreciation with no real meaning? After all if you are casual gamer it doesn't matter what list you play - as long as you have fun. What is the point then in asking people about your list?

This is exactly the sort of sentiment that drives me crazy. I can't really fault you for this notion, given the current state of things, but it shouldn't ne this way. A casual player has just as much right to post a squad as a tournament player. The problem, as I mentioned, is not being specific about what feedback we want. And using the terms "casual" or "competitive" is not good enough. What feedback do you want? Do you think this list could win a tournament? Do you think this list could beat list X? Do you think this list looks fun? Has anyone tried this combo? Is this combo neat-looking? If I'm going to fly bad-ship-Y, is this about the best that can be done?

See? These are specific questions that seek specific feedback. If you're not going to regionals and you say, "How's this list?" you really can't get upset if someone critiques it from a tournament standpoint. But if you've set bounds to your squad-building, it's rude for someone to ignore your stipulations and tell you to fly Tripple JM5K instead. I strongly disagree that it is not worth posting casual lists. If there is entitlement from casual posters being upset about tourney folks tearing their lists to shreds, there is just as much elitism coming from the tourney folks who say casuals shouldn't even bother posting.

Like I said, what we need is for everyone to be more specific in their feedback and qualify our statements with what playstyle we have in mind (probably better to do this in the opening post than to repeat it in every post of the thread).

One thing is for sure, though, it will never be okay to define your position as being "casual" because that means nothing except "not-tournament." If a player wants to discuss casual play, they do need to be more specific. Two tournament players have a common ground from which to discuss, but two casual players need to explain their position because they could be having completely different experiences.

I'm a tournament player, played in my fair share, and my friends and I usually play tournament type builds.

After this year regional I'm highly considering stepping down from the tournament scene and play more epic, casual type games, missions etc

The problem is though ( now this could just be me, or maybe something with human b nature) when I play games and build squads, I know what works with what. I know fel wants ptl, or veteran instinct advanced cloak on whisper, or ptl, daredevil tycho is nuts

What I think maybe hard for me is breaking away from this mentality. I know loading Luke out with Proton Torpedoes is not really an efficient use of pts. Neither is Imperial fett with the title a Torpedoes, with a mercenary co-pilot.

Truthfully, looking back I miss the days when my buddies and I would load up a bounty hunter with mercenary Co pilot or saboteur. Or using krasis with a HLC. Now when I list build, you know it's poe with x, or Dengar with x

This leaves me with epic and mission play. There is no "meta" build in epic that I'm aware of, and missions are a different design so meta build may not work

I think I'm terms of competitive play they need to break away from the standard 100 pt deathmatch, and introduce something like armada uses. A handful of missions, and each player can choose a couple from that and design their lists. This would be a nice change, and imo very possibly make ships otherwise not playable, playable

I will never get the whole WAAC argument, or the other. Everyone plays how they want. Some tend to be more strict, but they are doing nothing wrong, and some prefer to be a go with the flow type, which is fine and dandy as well. I have played in enough tournaments, in enough cities, to know you most likely won't run across someone that is going make the game unfun, because most people are there to have fun and play a game that involves their fandom, or a game with a really good game structure, but more than likely both.

We've had players that pretend to be laid back to lull their opponent then suddenly become incredibly strict at the most advantageous moment. We've had players deliberately not call an opponent out on a recurring rules mistake so that they keep doing it, then suddenly call them out for it when it suits them best. We've had players ask for takebacks, get them, then refuse their opponent the same later on.

They aren't common but they certainly exist.

Why don't they just get good and stop making mistakes?

You must be joking, but in case you're not, please understand that not everyone studies this game. As others have mentioned, for some, work and family take up the majority of their time so they only play X-Wing to relax. They don't see it as a sport to improve on. They'll probably "git-gud" after the same number of games as others, but getting the same number of games in could take them years!

Casual players that want to play competitive like to use proxies. They try to justify why they won't buy a ship for a card you must have for tournaments. They'll give any excuse to why it shouldn't be ok to proxy.

This is confusing. You make a false, broad, general assumption that casual players want to use proxies for tournaments. Then you say they give any excuse to justify not using proxies? So do they want to use proxies or don't they?

I'll say that some people will not use proxies no matter what level of play!

But when someone makes a comment like "No I don't play tournaments because I like to have fun rather then play with a bunch of WAAC jerks" make no doubt, they're being every bit as judgmental as the competitive person is when they talk about dirty casuals.

I agree, but for completeness' sake, if the same person said, "No I don't play tournaments because I like to have fun," that's not necessarily a statement about tournaments, it's a statement about personal preference.

Broad brush? No. Roller. It's faster. He he.

I'm a tournament player, played in my fair share, and my friends and I usually play tournament type builds.

After this year regional I'm highly considering stepping down from the tournament scene and play more epic, casual type games, missions etc

The best part is that you don't have to abandon tournaments to play Casual games.

The problem is though ( now this could just be me, or maybe something with human b nature) when I play games and build squads, I know what works with what. I know fel wants ptl, or veteran instinct advanced cloak on whisper, or ptl, daredevil tycho is nuts

What I think maybe hard for me is breaking away from this mentality. I know loading Luke out with Proton Torpedoes is not really an efficient use of pts. Neither is Imperial fett with the title a Torpedoes, with a mercenary co-pilot.

Truthfully, looking back I miss the days when my buddies and I would load up a bounty hunter with mercenary Co pilot or saboteur. Or using krasis with a HLC. Now when I list build, you know it's poe with x, or Dengar with x

Well, you don't have to really pick purposefully bad picks like Soontir without PTL. For B-list games, you can just pick only those ships that you NEVER see on the table. Just agree with a friend that you both won't take any list that has a pilot that all recognize as being good. If it's been on the top tables at a major event, you can't bring it. So, no Darth Vader, but you can use Maarek Stele, Juno, or the mid PS guys. No Soontir Fel. No Emperor. No Wampa. No Poe Dameron. No Dash Rendar. No Han. No....you get the picture.

This leaves me with epic and mission play. There is no "meta" build in epic that I'm aware of, and missions are a different design so meta build may not work

I think I'm terms of competitive play they need to break away from the standard 100 pt deathmatch, and introduce something like armada uses. A handful of missions, and each player can choose a couple from that and design their lists. This would be a nice change, and imo very possibly make ships otherwise not playable, playable

These are both good formats. I think the "meta" exists as soon as you start thinking about a particular mission. I started some threads about the Core boxed set missions to discuss the "meta"...or game of the game...for those missions.

It's also been suggested that people can make these All Comer lists and randomly pick some of those missions to play. You won't know what it is you are going to play until you roll. Those are kind of fun.