So wave 3 gave us crappy flotillas. Rage quit play xwing...

Now flotillas make xwings so op the game is broken.... Rage quit play xwing...

You know what I'm starting to detect a pattern... And a possible solution.

Dont Fall to the path of the Fallen! Stay the course! People are having knee-jerk reactions again.

Just like when they said the MC30 and MC80 were horrible ships (regionals data laughs at you DT), or that the Ackbar Swirl would dominate everything (regionals data laughs at you WWPDSteven). ^_~

People have reactions and that's fine, they need to get over it and test this out. That is the only way to figure things out.

Dear FFG Please sell me single YT2400 and Firesprays. k thx.

FFG - Sure! $5 each. #profit4days

eBay was selling them for $6-$8 a piece not too long ago. I guess they sold out because I can't find them anymore.

The problem they probably ran into was they would get about $6 for the 2400 and roughly the same for the Firespray, then a few bucks on the rest of them. So after feeBay fees, PayPal and shipping, they were probably losing money.

I bought 5 YT and 6 firesprays all in one batch... Worked out to be the equivalent if I had bought two more packs of Rogues and Villains. But I didn't need any more of the others. So I saved myself buying 4 more packs on top of those 2. But those deals are few and far between on ebay...I was literally on it when it was listed and bought them right away.

What was that? Mon Mothma not playable? MC30s not taken much? And certainlly not the Torpedo.

SW: Armada, where you can brew your own list and if you know how to fly it you can perform, i love this game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

I agree with your synopsis of the meta, but am very much of different opinion regarding my attitude towards it:

I am happy that x-wings are now rightfully awesome due to their excellent bomber/fighter balance, that ceding the fighter game is a VERY dangerous gambit, and that armed freighters might not be the best choice of military vessel.

As for what imps should do? Lots. Of. Tie. Fighters.

I don't mind squadrons being viable and useful. That's fine. In fact, I think it's great.

I DO mind that squadrons are taking over the game. And I especially mind that one side has squadrons that are excellent at both anti-ship and anti-squadron while the other has to sink nearly all of its available points into one or the other either as squadrons or squad activations (or both).

A lot of people are concerned about Rhymerballs right now. But Wave 3 completely turns this on its head by giving Rebel all-around ships the ability to activate an entire fleet of squadrons for much cheaper than they previously could. And when Rebel ships get actual activations, they rapidly outpace the potential damage output of Rhymerballs against both ships and squadrons.

First off, congratulations to IFF for correctly guessing that the big winner would be the list that most effectively neutralizes Rhymerballs. I think they made that in regards to World's but this list is going to be the starting point of that one.

The rise of Rebel dominance is upon us and their fighter squadrons are why. The overwhelming points efficiency for the ships themselves as well as activating them means that until we get either new squadrons or a massive spike in squadron killing power on both sides squadrons are now the dominant threat in the game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

What are you talking about!! Have you not seen Mauler Mithel and Chirneau in action. Also a Raider 1 or 2 kitted out with ruthless strategist with a bunch of 5 hull point squadrons absolutely mows down squadrons of all shapes and sizes. I have also seen 8 tie fighters (64 pts mind you!) constantly activated by VSD's utilizing swarm make short work of 6 legit hardy rebel character squadrons. There is so many weapons in the imperial arsenal to counter rebel squadrons. They are just not utilized due to the prominence of Rhymer, and the philosophy that it is better to destroy ships than squadrons. If you imperials shifted that focus to actually killing squadrons you will fine that you have a lot of awe inspiring counters.

I have not even mentioned Soontir, Vader, and Boba.

I guess you really thematically are an imperial officer as you just don't take much stock in your own squadrons, and anti-squadron capability and then whine when the rebels blow you up with their's. (The last part is spoken in jest as I found it funny!)

Could not agree more with this!

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

I cometh due to refrence!

I don't know, 8x YT2400's is **** scary, you don't want to pick superior positions from their list if they go second and with the TRC's, most wanted is scary, hmmmm I don't know about tame but they do work well in all roles.

As for Imperials, maybe you haven't met Mithel. He was used in his game but was mitigated due to the sheer number of YT2400's. Normally he would be able to jump in cause a ton of damage and let the TIE Advanced soak things up.

Then we have Aggressors, those 's are pure evil! They are the YT2400's of the Imperials and are rather annoying. They could of helped a lot here actually.

In wave 3 you have Jamming Fields which will mitigate many opponents squadrons. It will be interesting.

Oh, as for "X-Wing and Friends the Home Game" let's wait till he Vassal tournament before we cry wolf eh? I may have my foot shoved down my throat but W3 DtO is going to be in it so we shall see what happens. I will say that Flotillas will be annoying to deal with.

My vassal list will definitely challenge this xwing and friends squadron heavy meta. Whether it's successful or not, we'll see

First off, congratulations to IFF for correctly guessing that the big winner would be the list that most effectively neutralizes Rhymerballs. I think they made that in regards to World's but this list is going to be the starting point of that one.

The rise of Rebel dominance is upon us and their fighter squadrons are why. The overwhelming points efficiency for the ships themselves as well as activating them means that until we get either new squadrons or a massive spike in squadron killing power on both sides squadrons are now the dominant threat in the game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

What are you talking about!! Have you not seen Mauler Mithel and Chirneau in action. Also a Raider 1 or 2 kitted out with ruthless strategist with a bunch of 5 hull point squadrons absolutely mows down squadrons of all shapes and sizes. I have also seen 8 tie fighters (64 pts mind you!) constantly activated by VSD's utilizing swarm make short work of 6 legit hardy rebel character squadrons. There is so many weapons in the imperial arsenal to counter rebel squadrons. They are just not utilized due to the prominence of Rhymer, and the philosophy that it is better to destroy ships than squadrons. If you imperials shifted that focus to actually killing squadrons you will fine that you have a lot of awe inspiring counters.

I have not even mentioned Soontir, Vader, and Boba.

I guess you really thematically are an imperial officer as you just don't take much stock in your own squadrons, and anti-squadron capability and then whine when the rebels blow you up with their's. (The last part is spoken in jest as I found it funny!)

Could not agree more with this!

I place plenty of faith in my own squadrons: the anti-squadron ones are guaranteed to be disposable trash that won't survive a fight the moment they get in sneezing distance of an enemy ship, and the bombers can't take on fighters. The alternatives that will survive long enough to actually delay enemy squadrons aren't fast enough to intervene and the ones that are can't do enough damage to actually destroy enemy Rebels (unless those Rebels are in A-Wings, where I have an obscenely small chance of killing them before being blasted in the face with the wreckage).

Want to know what kills a Rhymerball? 12 A-Wings or 10 x-Wings.

Want to know what kills a Star Destroyer? 12 A-Wings or 10 X-Wings.

Want to know what kills nearly any combination of Imperial or Rebel fighters and their carriers? 12 A-Wings or 10 X-Wings.

Want to know what you can fit and activate in a Wave 3 list with almost 150 points left over?

Take a freaking guess.

I think X-Wings backed by BCC are going to be the new hotness when Wave 3 drops. Not sure how it will pan out over time, as they are still only Speed 3, but their Bomber dice becoming more reliable and cheaper Squadron activations should lead to a resurgence.

However, cheap squadron activations on the Imperial side may see a resurgence in TIE Fighters too. The main reason not to take them is that they work best in swarms, and right now you can't effectively swarm with them.

The Jamming Field can present a problem, too. If you try to Alpha against TIE Interceptors, for example, you're down one die against them, then they get a full Counter back in your face.

Oh God. . .Interceptors with Howl and Dengar in a Jamming Field bubble. . .

EDIT - I wonder if Jamming Field will lead to a lot of stand offs.

Want to know what kills a Rhymerball? 12 A-Wings or 10 x-Wings.

Not in my experience... I keep losing the Squadron Fight with 10x X-Wings against Rhymer balls who are backed with Counter and Flight controllers...

The rise of Rebel dominance is upon us and their fighter squadrons are why (...) squadrons are now the dominant threat in the game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

Considering that Wave 3 is still on the boat, your conclusions seem a bit premature to me. I get that you have probably played some games with proxies for Wave 3, but unless you have been playing them all day every day for the past several weeks, then I suspect you have only scratched the surface of possibilities.

In the end, you may well be right about how the Wave 3 meta shapes up- but I am not convinced. The sample size of Wave 3 games is still too small.

First off, congratulations to IFF for correctly guessing that the big winner would be the list that most effectively neutralizes Rhymerballs. I think they made that in regards to World's but this list is going to be the starting point of that one.

The rise of Rebel dominance is upon us and their fighter squadrons are why. The overwhelming points efficiency for the ships themselves as well as activating them means that until we get either new squadrons or a massive spike in squadron killing power on both sides squadrons are now the dominant threat in the game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

What are you talking about!! Have you not seen Mauler Mithel and Chirneau in action. Also a Raider 1 or 2 kitted out with ruthless strategist with a bunch of 5 hull point squadrons absolutely mows down squadrons of all shapes and sizes. I have also seen 8 tie fighters (64 pts mind you!) constantly activated by VSD's utilizing swarm make short work of 6 legit hardy rebel character squadrons. There is so many weapons in the imperial arsenal to counter rebel squadrons. They are just not utilized due to the prominence of Rhymer, and the philosophy that it is better to destroy ships than squadrons. If you imperials shifted that focus to actually killing squadrons you will fine that you have a lot of awe inspiring counters.

I have not even mentioned Soontir, Vader, and Boba.

I guess you really thematically are an imperial officer as you just don't take much stock in your own squadrons, and anti-squadron capability and then whine when the rebels blow you up with their's. (The last part is spoken in jest as I found it funny!)

Could not agree more with this!

I place plenty of faith in my own squadrons: the anti-squadron ones are guaranteed to be disposable trash that won't survive a fight the moment they get in sneezing distance of an enemy ship, and the bombers can't take on fighters. The alternatives that will survive long enough to actually delay enemy squadrons aren't fast enough to intervene and the ones that are can't do enough damage to actually destroy enemy Rebels (unless those Rebels are in A-Wings, where I have an obscenely small chance of killing them before being blasted in the face with the wreckage).

Want to know what kills a Rhymerball? 12 A-Wings or 10 x-Wings.

Want to know what kills a Star Destroyer? 12 A-Wings or 10 X-Wings.

Want to know what kills nearly any combination of Imperial or Rebel fighters and their carriers? 12 A-Wings or 10 X-Wings.

Want to know what you can fit and activate in a Wave 3 list with almost 150 points left over?

Take a freaking guess.

Good luck with that. If those carriers are not dishing out orders. . . Well you may have issues ^_~

I expect you will spend more points on Wing Commander as well which is fine. Means less ships to deal with.

Those carriers are GR-75 transports. The only things they can do are dish out orders and throw black dice at anything the X-Wings don't kill. Which turns out to be exactly what the X-Wings want.

I've no rated a-wings as an anti ship option much these days because they do at best 1 damage and the return fire will cut through them much faster than something like YT-2400s. Xwings are a different case because they get the reroll and have a bit more hull and will require less activations and so forth.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

I agree with your synopsis of the meta, but am very much of different opinion regarding my attitude towards it:

I am happy that x-wings are now rightfully awesome due to their excellent bomber/fighter balance, that ceding the fighter game is a VERY dangerous gambit, and that armed freighters might not be the best choice of military vessel.

As for what imps should do? Lots. Of. Tie. Fighters.

I don't mind squadrons being viable and useful. That's fine. In fact, I think it's great.

I DO mind that squadrons are taking over the game. And I especially mind that one side has squadrons that are excellent at both anti-ship and anti-squadron while the other has to sink nearly all of its available points into one or the other either as squadrons or squad activations (or both).

A lot of people are concerned about Rhymerballs right now. But Wave 3 completely turns this on its head by giving Rebel all-around ships the ability to activate an entire fleet of squadrons for much cheaper than they previously could. And when Rebel ships get actual activations, they rapidly outpace the potential damage output of Rhymerballs against both ships and squadrons.

I think you are forgetting that rebel squadrons are amazing on a 1-1 comparison to imps but rebels don't have anything like the quality of synergies that imps can produce. If anyone can find a rebel combo that will take out soontir, dengar, darth, mauler, howl runner for the same points I'll impressed. But that's because imperials specialise.

Rebels squadrons are all rounders. Yes an xwing is good at a range of things but you pay for all of those abilities and if you put it against that combo above you won't feel like you are getting good value.

The squadron game is all about synergies and balance and yes the game is about including squadrons that's an important thematic elements as well as a balance factor. I remember how bored I was by the end of wave 1 when it felt like all ship builds were dominating so hard the game almost felt one dimensional, best day ever was watching a bunch of a-wings take out worlds.

IMO the new options of wave 3 finally make it feel like a complete game. You can certainly go without bombers in wave 3 but if go without any squadrons you will probably get vaped. Seems great

That combo is a Raider. Or an AF2A with Gunnery Team.

Those squadrons will kill other squadrons,, but they can't actually take damage back, aside from Vader. And double-dice AS ships hurt them terribly.

Those carriers are GR-75 transports. The only things they can do are dish out orders and throw black dice at anything the X-Wings don't kill. Which turns out to be exactly what the X-Wings want.

I have no problem chewing up your Transports, many others won't either. If all you are relying on are transports to do the job, you may find issues popping up. Cracken will help but that could hurt you as much as help you.

Kill my 18 point transports all you want. I'll kill your 120+ points of squadrons, then another 100-200 points of ships on turns 3-6.

Kill my 18 point transports all you want. I'll kill your 120+ points of squadrons, then another 100-200 points of ships on turns 3-6.

My lists don't use squadrons. They will however strip your transports from you while forcing you to split your X-Wings. If you try and focus 1 ship down the others will be hitting you at range from a different portion of the board.

Trust me, we can play vacuum mind games but DtO has taught me how to compensate for a lack of squadrons. As such, knowing the weakness of X-wings and that of A-Wings I am not worried.

Oh and those are not 18 point Transports, if they are and you don't have extra Bomber Command Center's lying about, well, that could be problematic. On the other hand, 26 point Transports are prime targets.

wow way to devolve this thread into a middle school nuh uh yes huh fight. Good job guys

wow way to devolve this thread into a middle school nuh uh yes huh fight. Good job guys

I have to be good at something.

As for devolving the thread, I actually kept it on topic on how even though wave 3 will make squadrons swarms a thing, they are not the end all be all and that there are ways to counter them.

Besides, this thread devolved once Q was given Victory

wow way to devolve this thread into a middle school nuh uh yes huh fight. Good job guys

Anyone else enjoying the irony of this post being used to complain about how the thread is devolving....

X-wings as bombers are still underwhelming, even with BCC. I've tried it a few times now.

The problem is that you'll almost always do 1 damage, never more, as you'll never dare re-roll a hit or crit, since the chance of scoring something worse is much higher than getting a double hit (which isn't even a crit).

So yes, the red bomber dice won't do 0 dmg quite as often, but one point here and one point there just isn't good enough. You need a crapload of Xs to actually take down something. Even a raider will take a minimum of 6 Xs to kill - and given Xwing speeds you're often have trouble getting all of them set up in the same arc. And that's not taking into account enemy squadrons - or the fact that that huge lump of Xs will take LOADS of As fire.

The BCC is still very much beneficial, but you need to take other fighters as well. Scruggs or maybe Bees. Yavaris. Now the Xs can do what they are good at; kill other squadrons, escort your bombers, AND contribute in a meaningful way as bombers.