Excellent play-by-play Biggs!!

Anyone know if there is/will be a video of the match?

Personally I wouldn't be buying a lot of YT2400s at this point. I would be buying counters to them.

Raiders and ISD's do nicely. Raiders have the damage, and ISD's with a few engineering commands can just ignore them.

That sounds like a good... Oh wait, I already have these! :)To be serious I can see AWings as a counter on a rebel side

Yup, beat me to it. A-wings counter YT-2400 spam hard.

There is a lot that can counter YT-2400 spam. Any decent squadron heavy rebel list can lock that up.

Thanks for this Biggs. Nice little distraction while I grind my way through writing what is now a 23 page OPORD (and probably going to grow).

Personally I wouldn't be buying a lot of YT2400s at this point. I would be buying counters to them.

Raiders and ISD's do nicely. Raiders have the damage, and ISD's with a few engineering commands can just ignore them.

That sounds like a good... Oh wait, I already have these! :)To be serious I can see AWings as a counter on a rebel side

Yup, beat me to it. A-wings counter YT-2400 spam hard.

There is a lot that can counter YT-2400 spam. Any decent squadron heavy rebel list can lock that up.

In the local meta we've pretty much decided:

Rogues > Ship Swarms > Active Squadrons > Rogues.

It's by no means a comprehensive list of the game, but it's what we've discovered playing around with those three types of lists. Rogues generally fail hard to an equal number point cost of activated squadrons.

Personally I wouldn't be buying a lot of YT2400s at this point. I would be buying counters to them.

Raiders and ISD's do nicely. Raiders have the damage, and ISD's with a few engineering commands can just ignore them.

That sounds like a good... Oh wait, I already have these! :)To be serious I can see AWings as a counter on a rebel side

Yup, beat me to it. A-wings counter YT-2400 spam hard.

There is a lot that can counter YT-2400 spam. Any decent squadron heavy rebel list can lock that up.

In the local meta we've pretty much decided:

Rogues > Ship Swarms > Active Squadrons > Rogues.

It's by no means a comprehensive list of the game, but it's what we've discovered playing around with those three types of lists. Rogues generally fail hard to an equal number of activated squadrons.

Yup. Activated squadrons are more efficient than rogues in a vacuum; you're just paying for it on the other end in the form of the squadron activations you're committing to. Essentially, you're squeezing more out of that 134 points by taking non-rogues because you're amplifying them with ships, much like the math on ship-based squadron upgrades.

And Brik: yes, lots of things can defeat the YT-2400 swarm. The trick is doing it efficiently, which is the sense in which A-wings counter them. I would put 66 points of 6 A-wings up against 128 points of 8 YT-2400's any day, with a strong confidence that they would destroy a few, and slow down the rest long enough to neutralize them as a major threat for most of the game.

Even without squadron activations, A-wings are comparably or more points-efficient in every sense: 3.6 vs 4 points/blue anti-squadron; 11 vs 16 pts/black anti-ship; 2.75 vs 2.7 pts/hull; higher speed (an enormous deal in the squadron fight that nobody seems to talk about); and to top it off, counter means they always shoot back.

I am still surprised we dont see Tie advanced hoards with Rhymer much. Nothing touches those squads.

I am still surprised we dont see Tie advanced hoards with Rhymer much. Nothing touches those squads.

I think its mostly simply due to cost...

12 Points of an advanced gets you 5 hull, 3 AS and a Black Non-Bomber

9 Points of a Bomber gets you 5 hull, 1 Black AS, and a Black Bomber...

The Damage output of the TIE Advanced Swarm is better vs Squadrons, but its reduced versus ships...

... and you're taking Rhymer for the Ships Damage. .

I am still surprised we dont see Tie advanced hoards with Rhymer much. Nothing touches those squads.

I think its mostly simply due to cost...

12 Points of an advanced gets you 5 hull, 3 AS and a Black Non-Bomber

9 Points of a Bomber gets you 5 hull, 1 Black AS, and a Black Bomber...

The Damage output of the TIE Advanced Swarm is better vs Squadrons, but its reduced versus ships...

... and you're taking Rhymer for the Ships Damage. .

Heavy is costly...

And you take Rhhmer so you have flexibility when your opponent brings zero squads. Nothing worse than having redundant squads on the table.

I am still surprised we dont see Tie advanced hoards with Rhymer much. Nothing touches those squads.

I think its mostly simply due to cost...

12 Points of an advanced gets you 5 hull, 3 AS and a Black Non-Bomber

9 Points of a Bomber gets you 5 hull, 1 Black AS, and a Black Bomber...

The Damage output of the TIE Advanced Swarm is better vs Squadrons, but its reduced versus ships...

... and you're taking Rhymer for the Ships Damage. .

I think the best balance is somewhere in the middle. On the rare occasion that I put a Rhymer ball on the table, I usually go about 50/50 advanced/bomber.

I am still surprised we dont see Tie advanced hoards with Rhymer much. Nothing touches those squads.

I think its mostly simply due to cost...

12 Points of an advanced gets you 5 hull, 3 AS and a Black Non-Bomber

9 Points of a Bomber gets you 5 hull, 1 Black AS, and a Black Bomber...

The Damage output of the TIE Advanced Swarm is better vs Squadrons, but its reduced versus ships...

... and you're taking Rhymer for the Ships Damage. .

Heavy is costly...

And you take Rhhmer so you have flexibility when your opponent brings zero squads. Nothing worse than having redundant squads on the table.

Heavy is costly.

But its also irrelevant if your meta says "Expect Dengar / Jan / Jumpmaster / HWK"... As some (ie: mine) does.

Flight Controller'd Bombers are some of the most reliable anti-squadron-yet-bomber-capable ships in the game... You're speed 4, so chasing someone down to hit them usually isn't that much of a problem if you're actively controlled...

I will state: If I'm not taking Bombers, I'm taking Advanced. Period. Neither of the other basic squadrons really do it for me - as they simply evaporate to the most basic of anti-squadron firepower...

The question was, "Why aren't we seeing it..."

and my answer to that is, Psychlogically, its a big hurdle to jump from a Single Digit Cost, to a Double Digit Cost...

That's why stores price things at "9.99" rather than "10.00" after all.

#TRCMostBrokenCard

#LeaveDemoAlone

Wait National's? Isn't it still Regional season?

Not in the United States. All announced Regionals were completed as of last week. It is nominally until the end of June - but I have been lead to believe there isn't any in the United States anymore.

In the Rest of the World, Regionals Season goes until the end of July.

First off, congratulations to IFF for correctly guessing that the big winner would be the list that most effectively neutralizes Rhymerballs. I think they made that in regards to World's but this list is going to be the starting point of that one.

The rise of Rebel dominance is upon us and their fighter squadrons are why. The overwhelming points efficiency for the ships themselves as well as activating them means that until we get either new squadrons or a massive spike in squadron killing power on both sides squadrons are now the dominant threat in the game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

And the same thing was said at World's Last year.

... Deja What Now?

As someone who flies 2400 spam, if you want to beat it without taking squadrons of your own, invest in ships that have 2 blue anti-squad dice. I can usually work around black dice anti-squad ships, so that I'm not getting hit by more than one at a time, but multiple double-blues will tear through squads pretty quickly. You might not kill the 2400s, since you can't lock them down, but if they are forced to retreat, that's pretty useful.

First off, congratulations to IFF for correctly guessing that the big winner would be the list that most effectively neutralizes Rhymerballs. I think they made that in regards to World's but this list is going to be the starting point of that one.

The rise of Rebel dominance is upon us and their fighter squadrons are why. The overwhelming points efficiency for the ships themselves as well as activating them means that until we get either new squadrons or a massive spike in squadron killing power on both sides squadrons are now the dominant threat in the game.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

What are you talking about!! Have you not seen Mauler Mithel and Chirneau in action. Also a Raider 1 or 2 kitted out with ruthless strategist with a bunch of 5 hull point squadrons absolutely mows down squadrons of all shapes and sizes. I have also seen 8 tie fighters (64 pts mind you!) constantly activated by VSD's utilizing swarm make short work of 6 legit hardy rebel character squadrons. There is so many weapons in the imperial arsenal to counter rebel squadrons. They are just not utilized due to the prominence of Rhymer, and the philosophy that it is better to destroy ships than squadrons. If you imperials shifted that focus to actually killing squadrons you will fine that you have a lot of awe inspiring counters.

I have not even mentioned Soontir, Vader, and Boba.

I guess you really thematically are an imperial officer as you just don't take much stock in your own squadrons, and anti-squadron capability and then whine when the rebels blow you up with their's. (The last part is spoken in jest as I found it funny!)

As someone who flies 2400 spam, if you want to beat it without taking squadrons of your own, invest in ships that have 2 blue anti-squad dice.

That's totally right and mirrors my experience of using anti-squad. However my statement would be "ships that have at least 1 blue anti-squad die" as blue/black ships are a good compromise (loss of a black die at medium range is compensated by an almost guaranteed hit in a close range). And a spam of single-blue die flotillas might work as well.

#TRCMostBrokenCard

#LeaveDemoAlone

You are still not allowed to talk until you complete a successful triple tap at a premiere event

Of TRC's was so broken it would have won more tournaments

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

I cometh due to refrence!

I don't know, 8x YT2400's is **** scary, you don't want to pick superior positions from their list if they go second and with the TRC's, most wanted is scary, hmmmm I don't know about tame but they do work well in all roles.

As for Imperials, maybe you haven't met Mithel. He was used in his game but was mitigated due to the sheer number of YT2400's. Normally he would be able to jump in cause a ton of damage and let the TIE Advanced soak things up.

Then we have Aggressors, those 's are pure evil! They are the YT2400's of the Imperials and are rather annoying. They could of helped a lot here actually.

In wave 3 you have Jamming Fields which will mitigate many opponents squadrons. It will be interesting.

Oh, as for "X-Wing and Friends the Home Game" let's wait till he Vassal tournament before we cry wolf eh? I may have my foot shoved down my throat but W3 DtO is going to be in it so we shall see what happens. I will say that Flotillas will be annoying to deal with.

And that sucks. If I wanted to be forced to take squadrons, I'd pay X-Wing.

Xwing and squad combat in this game are so very different that it's just not a valid comparison.

Of course noone is forcing you to take squadrons. Lyareus has several Dodonna builds that don't use them that he has found success with. It's all about having a plan for dealing with the squadron based lists.

Wave 3 no squadron lists are 100% unusable. You won't even make it to turn 4.

Anyone who hasn't played Wave 3 yet:

This is tame. 8 YT2400S is just. Not That. Good. Compared to builds I am seeing in Wave 3 now that I have a few. The game is basically now X-Wings And Friends the home game. And when you have nothing but squadrons, Imperials simply don't have enough meat on their anti-fighter squadrons to cut it.

I agree with your synopsis of the meta, but am very much of different opinion regarding my attitude towards it:

I am happy that x-wings are now rightfully awesome due to their excellent bomber/fighter balance, that ceding the fighter game is a VERY dangerous gambit, and that armed freighters might not be the best choice of military vessel.

As for what imps should do? Lots. Of. Tie. Fighters.

So wave 3 gave us crappy flotillas. Rage quit play xwing...

Now flotillas make xwings so op the game is broken.... Rage quit play xwing...

You know what I'm starting to detect a pattern... And a possible solution.