This has been mentioned/hinted at a few times before, by me and others; but I haven't been able to find a definitive conversation so here comes another Newb question:

I know that pilot abilities like Howlie or Eps Lead encourage close range formation flying. But what about non-Imp swarms or flying guys like Zeta Ace? It seems to me they want to be able to do their own things and not be leashed into formation. While I understand concentrated firepower it seems in my games it is easier for me to fly against a formation than to try to dodge shots from 4 or 5 different angles. Different attack vectors also makes target selection more difficult for me. The flip side is I am more likely to have someone in my sights than having jousted/dodged the entire squad and now have to turn around. Maybe I'm just no good at flying formations and looking for an excuse.

Am I making any sense or am I way off base? Thanks for helping me out.

Sure fly in formation. Assault missiles here we come.

Simply put.

If you split up/do not utilize a formation, plan your moves so that you can converge all your ships to fire at your intended target in one round, two at the most.

Metaphorically speaking, you need to cast your net wide, and be able to close it fast.

First off, let me say THANK YOU for the post. I'm of the same mind as you and have always flown my Tie Fighters loosely. I hate to think of a "swarm" as a locked formation. It bugs me. A swarm needs to actually swarm!

Having played since Wave 1, I have always liked a good number of Tie Fighters. I have not flown them in formation. Oh, I might start off in formation on the approach, but quickly break off either for the first round of shooting or right afterwards. To me, the formation limits the maneuverability of the Tie Fighter and removes one of it's strengths.

In a swarm like this, it's great to have one or two Academy Pilots to use as blockers. You rush them out in front to where you think they are going to be and you pick dials for the rest of the list to take advantage of their bump. You set up as many R1 flank shots as possible. I've used this incredibly well. I've even used mixed Academy and Obsidian to have some bumpers and others to have cheap flank shots. If you have a number of lower PS ships than your intended, you can also spread out a bit and make it so that no matter where they went they don't have a place to move. So, they bump one of the back ships, which creates a bump train that leaves them right in front of all your Tie Fighters and they have no actions. Fantastic to then burn them down.

One way that I fly is what I call the Hammer and Anvil strategy. I use a formation of ships like Tie Fighters to grab the attention of my opponent. It's good to have some low PS ships to start things off. Usually put them in the middle. Then, I have one or two flankers on the sides to come in and take advantage of the situation. You can vary your speeds on the approach for each group to ensure maximum approach. If they turn towards your flankers, your main group should speed up while the flankers slow down and vice versa. I've found it great to use Dark Curse as the lead Tie Fighter for the Anvil. If you can get just him at R3 then it gets pretty fun as they waste their shots for little effect while your flankers hit them. Next turn, you are in their face with Tie Fighters and going for bumps and R1 flank shots.

Another strategy is to form a loose line on approach. You can go at various speeds and approach one main target. Use your bumpers to go in fast and the rest of them to set up on the flanks to get shots in. Put your most expendable ships in the middle as those are the ones that they will be able to concentrate fire on the most. When you spread out like this, it becomes harder for them to really focus fire and that helps Tie Fighters quite a bit. When they can focus fire, it becomes pretty nasty against you.

One particular list that I like, but haven't had a lot of games in is Imperial Gunslingers:

As long as your TIEs are all pointing at the same thing*(and you don't have howlrunner/someone else handing out range 1 buffs), it's all good.

Against aces sometimes it's better to get 2-3 things covering seperate sectors - you sacrifice firepower for ensuring they can't dodge your arcs. Of course it's even better than that to block an ace then bring everything else to bear on them.

I like to fly

Epsilon Leader

Zeta Squadron Pilot x 5

It's no frills but is able to fly formed up or dispersed. My favorite tack is to break them into wings of two ships and have all 3 wings support each other. It is remarkably effective especially with the F/O's better maneuvers and shield.

Epsilon Leader mainly helps his wingman, but can be useful when the squadron swarm a target.

I have always found Howlrunner to be a twin-edged sword, the reroll is great, but using her makes you predictable. The list above is far from predictable.

There are 3 main reasons you want to formation fly:

1) Howlrunner or other such range1 goodness abilities. Its not just limited to her but shes the main one you think of.

2) Focus fire potential. Its way way easier to focus fire a ship when you fly in formation because their arcs are lined up, which also leads to #3

3) its vastly easier to fly them with the same goal in mind. If you scatter, you have to predict where EVERYONE will be not just your opponent. This can lead to missed arcs, bumps in bad places, or the inability to even get in there at all from some angles.

Formation fly isnt mandatory though. Highly recommended but isnt mandatory. If you see assault missiles though, SCATTER! lol

heychadwick makes some really good points. Formation flying is a hard skill to master and the pay off is well worth the investment but it shouldn't an iron vice that dictates your entire match. The list he shared is pretty darn good, I ran a similar one for a bit and I'll probably keep coming back to it however it is a finesse list despite all it's punch. So the advice I give out is to not fly the finesse list until you can fly the hell out of the old man version, then go back and put on the upgrades you want and learn how to apply their strategies to the fundamentals you just learned.

I am very much of the opinion if you are not using someone like howlrunner or serissu it is better not to fly them in formation because it makes it easier to block your opponent than formation flying does .

2) Focus fire potential. Its way way easier to focus fire a ship when you fly in formation because their arcs are lined up, which also leads to #3

3) its vastly easier to fly them with the same goal in mind. If you scatter, you have to predict where EVERYONE will be not just your opponent. This can lead to missed arcs, bumps in bad places, or the inability to even get in there at all from some angles.

Formation fly isnt mandatory though. Highly recommended but isnt mandatory. If you see assault missiles though, SCATTER! lol

The list he shared is pretty darn good, I ran a similar one for a bit and I'll probably keep coming back to it however it is a finesse list despite all it's punch.

I will also state that flying non-formation does take skill and thinking about it to fly a non-formation. It is easy to mess up and have a lot of bumpage. It is a finesse list and can go all wrong. It is quite possible that after a long day of tournaments that you are just brain fried and can't manage it. I don't know. I haven't done too many long day tournaments with lists like this. They weren't that big then. I don't know if it's worse than flying in formation, though. That also takes practice and skill. I tend to think, though, that it's about the same.

As for firepower, if it's done OK, you have at least the same firepower as a formation. If it's done right, then you end up with more firepower because you have a number of R1 shots and at least one of your targets got bumped (and defenseless). If it's done wrong, then yeah, you are in a worse situation.

I know Howlrunner adds a lot to a list, but she dies really fast very often. I am dubious as to her value and if it's worth it. I'm more leaning to side that Howlrunner isn't worth it every time and a Swarm (true Swarm) can be just as effective without her.

Personally, i find formation fly easier than nonformation. This could be because i forced myself to run maxed out tie numbers for like 20 games to learn the templates and how to accurately dodge rocks, but every time i break formation i start bumping or missing arcs. I fly formation even with large ships lol.

Personally, i find formation fly easier than nonformation. This could be because i forced myself to run maxed out tie numbers for like 20 games to learn the templates and how to accurately dodge rocks, but every time i break formation i start bumping or missing arcs. I fly formation even with large ships lol.

I think I'm the opposite!

I do both. I always start with some formation depending on the mix of TIEs I am flying. Openings are fairly standard affairs. Usually the formation last until first contact with the enemy or obstacles. After that it is just a furball where you have to focus on blocking the enemy ships you need to block, getting shots and not blocking your own guys in the process.

The games where I have tried to start with a loose or non-existent formation have not ended well for the home team.

The real skill here is not just leaning on your favourite method out of habit but knowing when to break up formation or to form up for maximum benefit.

What you can't have happen is an opening engagement where it's there whole list vs yours. Starting in formation makes this much less likely to occur, but a good player can converge thier forces well enough.

Final point I'd make is think about your manouevers when your flying in a formation. Are you just picking that two bank to stay in formation or is it actually the best move available to that ship. Sometimes it's worth letting go of the inherient advantage of your swarm to get the better position for future rounds.

Now that's something I've thought about trying to do, flying ships in pairs. It won't work like in real life where any plane can one-shot any plane, but it might have some potential.

So I'm not a very experienced swarm player. Flying a swarm vs non-swarm or fomation vs non-formation the goal is still the same: efficiency. Ensure your actions, get max dice on target, make use of abilities, etc. I've never flown without Howl but I've also never flown in complete formation. I find it too restrictive for me personally. Add in that I'm not great at it. Given that I focus not on STAYING together but GETTING together. Howlrunner is just as effective if you start together and fly that way or you come from different vectors and end up within her range 1. A list I stole (and slightly modified) I had multiple 4 dice shots with TIEs using this 5 TIE swarm and focusing on convergence flying rather than formation flying. In spite of horrid green dice I chewed through my opponent very quickly.

Omega Leader-

Juke

Comm Relay

Zeta Leader-

Wired

Howlrunner-

Adaptability

Mauler Mithel-

Adaptability

Scourge-

Crackshot

I call them the TIE All-Stars. I loved playing this list.

5 ship swarms

I've see variations of this list before and am tempted to try a few of them but is 5 two dice ships enough? I recognize that these all have ways of increasing their damage output but still, it is situational. I still see it as 10 red dice with good agility but not a lot of HP.

BTW: Thanks everyone for their comments on my original question. I'm learning a lot. Please keep the replies coming.

I've had a lot of fin flying five Marauders in formation, usually in a group of three and a group of two, pinwheel style. Although they get no bonuses for flying in formation, it slow me to focus fire more effectively.

I'll usually stay in formation until the initial engagement, then if I can stay on formation I will, or I'll block and scatter.

Practising flying like this has really helped my pls all round, both planning movement and predicting my opponents' moves.

...Lots of excellent things...

Excellent post. Echoes a lot of my own strategy!

5 ship swarms

I've see variations of this list before and am tempted to try a few of them but is 5 two dice ships enough? I recognize that these all have ways of increasing their damage output but still, it is situational. I still see it as 10 red dice with good agility but not a lot of HP.

BTW: Thanks everyone for their comments on my original question. I'm learning a lot. Please keep the replies coming.

My experience was that I had very little trouble getting 3 and 4 dice shots w/ Howl re-rolls. Most of the abilities are situational but most of those situations are either very frequent or easily manipulated. Honestly I was surprised on how many dice I put out. Try it out.

Why no love for 5 ship rebel swarms?

Bbbbz

Xxxxz

Or my favourite (since i only have 3 b wings) bbbaa

Or or or ac dc?

4 accuracy correct or tempest and dark curse

Had good success with the last 2

i recently won the Yavin Open with my seven tie swarm. over the 12 games i flew in virtually the same formation every time, at least for the first few turns. this is obviously deliberate. nothing can face such a block of ships in the joust and come out on top, and you can use that fact, and your rock setup, to dictate where your opponent goes. you can then choose your moment to swarm him. this moment can take a couple of forms. firstly, if the opportunity is there, you simply point and click, not needing to break formation, and taking full advantage of your re-rolls on all ships. secondly, you adopt a more loose approach, with some ships speeding ahead, perhaps to block, and others staying back to get the re-rolls. this applies particularly when you are forced to engage through rocks, and don't wish to hit them, or if you need several of your blockers to ensure that (for example) Soontir, really doesn't have any good options for movement. in the current meta, i really believe you have to have a very good reason indeed for splitting your ships at deployment, or indeed before the first engagement. i have not yet found a good enough reason.

however, i've been playing swarms for years, and last season (2015) i flew an entirely different list and did pretty well with it.

4 APs

2 Alphas

Dark Curse

100

this list was a direct response to the fat turrets and phantom meta, in which rigid formation flying was basically a suicide bid. the list doesn't have Howlrunner, so doesn't need to fly in formation, and it has some very fast and killy ships which can flank if required. i usually deployed in two groups, and these groups converged on the same target from various angles. this meant that neither turrets nor phantoms could dodge both groups.

remember, this was before crack shot, so phantoms like Whisper could reasonably expect to tank the shooting of an entire swarm and then take them down one by one. in such a tough match-up you needed those three dice guns and blocking abilities to take them down. nowadays, even phantoms can't face down crack swarms, so the need for more elaborate tactics like these are lessened.

Agreed with what's described here. Don't try flying in a single 'block' - a Two-by-four made of TIE fighters is just as unwieldy as one made of scots pine, and your opponent is just as unlikely to blithely stand by and let you cleanly hit him in the face with one.

Breaking up into smaller groups helps you move round the board, and is **** near vital to engage really evasive opponents (like Dash Rendar).

At the same time, a TIE fighter is 12 points (give or take). When most medium fighters are approximately double that, it only makes sense that they should be operating in pairs, and two TIEs can fly as a pair without requiring too much brainwork on your part.

My usual tactic is to work the squad in twos - two pairs, which normally deploy in two blocks of four against 'normal' opponents (two blocks of four TIEs each is a nice middle ground between enough arcs of fire to catch a target and enough concentrated fire to kill what you catch) or as a set of four pairs spread along my board edge in a 'dragnet' against opponents like Dash or Chiraneau - where I need spread out units to catch them in the first place. The two blocks link together into an eight where someone is prepared to go head-to-head (like Jumpmasters) or where I'm waiting for an opponent to come to me (like aces).

At the same time, be prepared to break off a block, or a pair, or a single fighter whenever it's convenient. Getting a shot in the first place is far more important than getting a reroll on a shot you don't have, and equally getting a block on an action-dependent opponent will do you far more good on the rest of your squad's shooting than that one TIE's 2-dice popguns would have done against a token-laden ace.

It's one of the reasons I like Youngster so much. He still gives you the option of a benefit, but it's range 1-3 - so I can fly 7 TIE fighters head-on at contracted scouts, but he can be safely off on a flank, not needing to be in torpedo arc.

5 ship swarms

I've see variations of this list before and am tempted to try a few of them but is 5 two dice ships enough? I recognize that these all have ways of increasing their damage output but still, it is situational. I still see it as 10 red dice with good agility but not a lot of HP.

BTW: Thanks everyone for their comments on my original question. I'm learning a lot. Please keep the replies coming.

I may not have Mr Pattison's esteem but I went 13th at yavin with a five ship swarm and never once lacked for firepower. I was able to reliably down aces In one volley and claim big ships in two. I don't think damage output in a five ship swarm is nearly as much an issue as survivability. This is why I ran two comms relay F/O's which really helped out.

EDIT: because I'm a low-life name-misspelling heathen!