I don't think that a free Deadeye ability is in order. The ability to TAKE Deadeye, however, would go a long way.

Things that tie bombers and punishers should be able to do.

Shoot ordinance without target locks, or get a free focus after acquiring a TL without getting stressed (giving bombers an advantage in ordinance over other ships, which makes thematic sense, since they're slower/less maneuvery/less agile).
Carry modifying crew, such as, oh, I don't know... a bombardier? Targeting modifying droids? A second mod slot? An ordinance only mod slot?

Modification

Targeting efficency 0 PTS (punisher/bomber only)

If your PS is 5 or lower you may fire missles or Torpedoes without needing a target lock. Reduce cost -1 for each missle/torpedo

Modification 1 pt

Extended blast radius.

When a bomb detonates at the end of the activation phase, increase its dmg radius to range 2 instead of 1

I think this would help the ships that could use some help

honestly if the **** thing had an EPT i'd probably use it again just from that alone. Expert Handling to give it a pseudo-barrelroll, Deadeye, Predator to further lockdown ordnance shots, or even Daredevil so i can turn it **** near on a dime with a previously acquired targetlock. He has boost already so no worries there.

I dont get why some ships even the highest pilots dont have EPTs. Shuttle i can kind of understand it but why are the actual combat ships not getting one?

Also i would like a title to let them freely drop mines. I love mines, but the action-steal for them make them way too costly and not in points to use. Since theres no such thing as a pure bomber with like 3-4 bombs and maybe 1 missile or torpedo, i cant build him as a dedicated minelayer because hes priced as an ordnance boat and SUCKS at it lol

Deathrain is fun though. Blast forward, dump clusters out the front onto a large ship: bam roll 6 dice buddy while i barrelroll out of your arc lol

I dont get why some ships even the highest pilots dont have EPTs. Shuttle i can kind of understand it but why are the actual combat ships not getting one?

Maybe they're running out of space to fit the icons?

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Miranda_Doni

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/%22Redline%22

That said, Hera has only 6 icons, and no EPT:

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Hera_Syndulla_(VCX-100)

Ghost at least doesnt technically need it. That ship is pretty brutal as it is. I imagine all people would do is put intimidation on it anyway. I still dont get why it DOESNT have one but it doesnt seem to suffer from it at least. Unlike the Punisher, Lambda, or y-wings

That's funny

You beat me too it. I was just thinking about a thread about the Punisher. With all the uBoat talk taking place, the uBoats really did take the job away from the Punisher.

Problem is as I see it, is there is no reason to take a punisher so long as the uBoats are the way they are. These things are not as tanky as a uBoat. If you try spamming them you'll die lol.

I think allowing them to take ordnance for free or some how add something that'll allow them a little more defense is what they need

Maybe a sensor upgrades that when you gain a target lock you may get a free evade action, and up to 8 pts of ordnance. Lol Maybe that's pushing it, but really why fly one.

What it cost again to load one of these things up? Like 40 pts? And after it shoots, it may hurt something, but after that it's near crippled. 3 uBoats will shred this up so fast it's not funny.

Really it's a **** shame, I'd love to see this ship more. I mean honestly I forgot all about it until today. I can't remember the last time I even considered using one.

And what punisher build made it to top spot in a tournament? You peaked my interest. How many players? Was it regional, or seasonal kit tournament?

FGD took a Store Championship late wave 7 with Deathrain (AC, Conner Net, Seismic Charges, EM), VI-Vader and Omega Leader.

Wouldn't work anymore, sadly. Deathrain just is too narrow a counter. He worked when all everyone was playing was aces, but now that there is a viable generic-spammy list in tier 1 he is too much of a risk. Redline has a similar problem, where he could be a king when it came to removing TLTs and fat ships. The Punisher aces are both excellent at what they do, but not at all tournament viable because they suck so badly if they can't do what they want.

However Redline could make a "comeback" (not to imply he ever was there) when the empire gets their own tools for Ordnance spam lists in Imperial Veterans that also cover him against aces (because of mandatory Homing Missiles).

That's funny

You beat me too it. I was just thinking about a thread about the Punisher. With all the uBoat talk taking place, the uBoats really did take the job away from the Punisher.

Problem is as I see it, is there is no reason to take a punisher so long as the uBoats are the way they are. These things are not as tanky as a uBoat. If you try spamming them you'll die lol.

I think allowing them to take ordnance for free or some how add something that'll allow them a little more defense is what they need

Maybe a sensor upgrades that when you gain a target lock you may get a free evade action, and up to 8 pts of ordnance. Lol Maybe that's pushing it, but really why fly one.

What it cost again to load one of these things up? Like 40 pts? And after it shoots, it may hurt something, but after that it's near crippled. 3 uBoats will shred this up so fast it's not funny.

Really it's a **** shame, I'd love to see this ship more. I mean honestly I forgot all about it until today. I can't remember the last time I even considered using one.

And what punisher build made it to top spot in a tournament? You peaked my interest. How many players? Was it regional, or seasonal kit tournament?

FGD took a Store Championship late wave 7 with Deathrain (AC, Conner Net, Seismic Charges, EM), VI-Vader and Omega Leader.

Wouldn't work anymore, sadly. Deathrain just is too narrow a counter. He worked when all everyone was playing was aces, but now that there is a viable generic-spammy list in tier 1 he is too much of a risk. Redline has a similar problem, where he could be a king when it came to removing TLTs and fat ships. The Punisher aces are both excellent at what they do, but not at all tournament viable because they suck so badly if they can't do what they want.

However Redline could make a "comeback" (not to imply he ever was there) when the empire gets their own tools for Ordnance spam lists in Imperial Veterans that also cover him against aces (because of mandatory Homing Missiles).

Sadly though when using imps there are just some ships you know won't work well

Id love use the Punisher, firespray, bombers, Decimator more, but if I make a "fun" list and my buddy decides he want to use a more "meta" list, it makes for a unfun, frustrating game.

He will alpha strike one of my ships before it gets to see its potential, or dance around them making me play cat and mouse, while he picks away at my ships.

If both play a fun type build its great, but otherwise it's painful

It's nice to see someone did well at a tournament with one. Though as you said, that ship has sailed.

My opinion is ffg really ****** things up with the uBoats. Why even bother with bombers or punishers anymore? Bombs are fun, but even so, when your up against a ship that has 6+ health, and a large base bombs only seem to scratch the paint.

What id love to see if bond make more of an impact. Increase their blast radius, or allow you to drop two instead of one per upgrade, with extra munitions you can drop 4 total. (two at a time) maybe one From the back and another from the front idk, but it's not good imo

Have a title that adds an ept or drops a bomb for a crew member slot (4pts or less).

A sensor upgrade that adds a focus when you acquire a target lock.

A sensor upgrade that lets you fire secondary weapons out of ark.

A sensor upgrade that can increase the range of a secondary weapon by 1 (but not decrease) to a max of range 3.

A sensor upgrade that adds an evade token for some reason (like in range 1-2 of an enemy ship).

Currently as I see it there isn't a reason to run a punisher if you aren't using the sensor upgrade because it is way more expensive than the bomber. The cheapest punisher is only 2 or 3 points less expensive then the most expensive bomber.

Enhanced Targeting Computer

Sensor

When you acquire a target lock gain a focus token, If declaring an attack with Focus and TL secondary weapons can be fired at range +1.

This would mean when you get shot at by aces you would have to choose between a longer range attack or getting extra evades from focus rolls.

System Slot - 2 points - Emergency Shielding
The first time in a game you receive a damage card, receive 1 ion token and discard this card to place shield tokens on your pilot card, up to your maximum shield value.

Allows you to tank the first exchange of fire, makes you more points efficient, has enough of a draw back so that Corran won't abuse it due to it being a mandatory effect and kinda helps B wings and Punishers in a joust.

Open with Adv Homing Missiles: deal 1 faceup card, which ignores shields. Cant gain shields cause youre at max, and you're ioned.

I wouldnt even take that for 0pts lol. Advanced Sensors is too good on this guy.

Could the new support bomber possibly add a life to Punishers?

i thought about that with the long range scanners. It...kind of does?

It lets you targetlock WAY in advance for an initial strike of proton torps or whatever ordnance you want. Problem is after that strike you need to disengage really far to get another targetlock, so he turns into a pure bomber and meh gunner. One proton torp is rarely enough to be a huge deal anyway.

I might give it a shot just to say i did. Extra Muns, Conner Net, Thermo Detonator, Proton Torps, Long Range Scanner on Deathrain.

Technically Redline would love the longrange scanners, since he'd have 2 targetlocks for the initial attack. So theres that i guess, but he has the same issue once he runs out of them.

I can't imagine ever wanting to take Long Range Scanners over Guidance Chips.

I do like the idea of some sort of shield buff, especially since Redline always reminded me of a tank in playstyle. He'd plod up the field, zero room for subtly, and blow **** up. Problem was his glass cannon status makes him far less appealing in that design.

Some kind of counter-weapons system to shoot down enemy fire while a punisher plows up to them would be very cool imo, something like D.va's Defense Matrix in Overwatch

problem is it couldn't be a system upgrade else redline would lose FCS and we can't have that

Tie/IT (0 points)

Tie Punisher Only. Title

When defending, if the attacker is in your firing arc and at Range 1 of a ship you have target-locked, you may add an EVADE result to your roll.

If you do, you may not perform a primary weapon attack this round.

"Alpha Strike Targeting"

System

After performing an attack with a Missile or Torpedo that hits, you may discard another equipped Missile or Torpedo to perform that attack on the defender. You must roll one fewer attack die during the attack.

Basically, you're emptying out the tubes. Would be especially strong against low agility ships.

I do like the idea of some sort of shield buff, especially since Redline always reminded me of a tank in playstyle. He'd plod up the field, zero room for subtly, and blow **** up. Problem was his glass cannon status makes him far less appealing in that design.

Some kind of counter-weapons system to shoot down enemy fire while a punisher plows up to them would be very cool imo, something like D.va's Defense Matrix in Overwatch

problem is it couldn't be a system upgrade else redline would lose FCS and we can't have that

Tie/IT (0 points)

Tie Punisher Only. Title

When defending, if the attacker is in your firing arc and within range 1 of a ship you have target-locked, you may add an EVADE result to your roll.

If you do, you may not perform a primary weapon attack this round.

Agreed, extra defences not only gives the Punisher a buff - it gives them an identity as well.

Agreed, extra defences not only gives the Punisher a buff - it gives them an identity as well.

yar

especially since the Punisher's deal was to attack rebel bases that Star Destroyers couldn't get access to

they're compact but blunt instruments of destruction that range ahead of the fleet and sow destruction in their wake

also, they're apparently called Tie Interdictors (hence Tie/IT). According to wiki

"An interdictor is a type of attack aircraft that operates far behind enemy lines, with the express intent of interdicting the enemy's military targets, most notably those involved in logistics. The interdiction prevents or delays enemy forces and supplies from reaching the battlefront."

so I'd bet they'd love something that just lets them blow through static defenses to deliver a punishing payload

Deflectors for the front arc would be glorious and unique. I like it. Makes jousting these guys rather hard if not impossible, but soon as you get around them they fold pretty quick.

There is a local guy that LOVES Tie Punishers. He loves to fly them. I've flown them in Mission 1 and they were awesome. I'm not so sure the best place for them is the tournament scene.

I do want to make a special Mission that is solely based on the Tie Punisher. I want it to be played on a 6x3 table. The premise is that the Imperials found out about a pirate base and are tasked with destroying it. Take something like 4 x Tie Punishers that are totally loaded out with as much crap as they can carry and....a Gozanti with 4 Tie Fighter escorts (I'd make it Tie Interceptors, but I want the Tie Fighters to be the stars of the show). Have the Pirates have a base and perhaps waves of cheap fighters. Throw out Scyks, Z-95's, and Kihraxz Fighters. I've got some paper turrets that we can use, as well. Put out some facilities that need to be blasted, as well to destroy the capability of the Pirates.

Man....that would be a lot of fun. Just having these crazy Punishers blowing up everything left and right. I'd even love to play the Pirates. Give them a named guy....like Graz the Hunter...just for fun. Maybe two Gozanti if I want a lot of defenders.

Deflectors for the front arc would be glorious and unique. I like it. Makes jousting these guys rather hard if not impossible, but soon as you get around them they fold pretty quick.

which would encourage good use of bombs, which only makes the Punisher a vastly more interesting ship

right, all of you gotta help me win worlds so we can make the Tie/IT title a reality

Deflectors for the front arc would be glorious and unique. I like it. Makes jousting these guys rather hard if not impossible, but soon as you get around them they fold pretty quick.

which would encourage good use of bombs, which only makes the Punisher a vastly more interesting ship

right, all of you gotta help me win worlds so we can make the Tie/IT title a reality

Mod (punisher only)

2-3 points

When defending if the attacker is in your front arc, he must roll 2 hit results to deal 1 dmg. You may equip another mod

This right here

Let's them punch through enemy formations, and you can load up bombs for when they enemy tries to get behind you. Great against Joustes, can still be taken out by arc dodgers, which means your squad escorting them must keep things from getting behind you, and again if they did, drop some Ion bombs

Eh i think something akin to Reinforce would be what would happen if anything.

"When defending, if the attacker is in your front arc, automatically reduce the Total Damage dealt to you by 1."

2pt title. Call it "Frontline Breacher" - i'd rather not touch the mod slot and making a mod that adds another mod slot is just weird.

This would also dodge undodgable damage, since its not an evade result, defense die, or token or whatever. Flatout 1 less damage.

agreed about not touching the mod slot. We need chips and long-range salsa!

fortunately, when FFG fixes imperial ships, they fix em with Tie/letter-with-optional-# titles

I prefer the added gameplay complexity of involving a TL somehow, but the punisher is at the point where a more blanket defensive ability wouldn't overpower it (not even close) and simplicity is sorta x-wing's calling card

while all this is ultimately a pipe dream, the ARC-170 and Tie/sf have set a hopeful standard of ships being included with "fix" titles (though in their case they're designed to work with those titles, because there is no room on the card to write in the base special abilities of those ships)

when there's very little wiggle room to work with in the game's base stats (just adding or removing a mere die from, say, offense is a MASSIVE change), these 0-point titles open up a lot of wiggle room ito game design

Tie/IT title

The first time you would take damage each round remove one shield token and cancel all damage.

Basically large capacity shield generators that can soak a big hit but take time to replenish.

There is a local guy that LOVES Tie Punishers. He loves to fly them. I've flown them in Mission 1 and they were awesome. I'm not so sure the best place for them is the tournament scene.

I do want to make a special Mission that is solely based on the Tie Punisher. I want it to be played on a 6x3 table. The premise is that the Imperials found out about a pirate base and are tasked with destroying it. Take something like 4 x Tie Punishers that are totally loaded out with as much crap as they can carry and....a Gozanti with 4 Tie Fighter escorts (I'd make it Tie Interceptors, but I want the Tie Fighters to be the stars of the show). Have the Pirates have a base and perhaps waves of cheap fighters. Throw out Scyks, Z-95's, and Kihraxz Fighters. I've got some paper turrets that we can use, as well. Put out some facilities that need to be blasted, as well to destroy the capability of the Pirates.

Man....that would be a lot of fun. Just having these crazy Punishers blowing up everything left and right. I'd even love to play the Pirates. Give them a named guy....like Graz the Hunter...just for fun. Maybe two Gozanti if I want a lot of defenders.

Sounds Awesome - Count me in - I've only got 2 punishers tho