I'm thinking dual ISD and dual MC80, as they're the only Large ships currently. And I haven't seen one do well at a tournament. I tried a few in a beginner league in my area just to test them out, and wasn't impressed.

Double MC80 placed in top-8 in DallasDouble ISD in top 4 in Louisville

Serious? Someone managed to make two ship activations work? How!

I'm thinking dual ISD and dual MC80, as they're the only Large ships currently. And I haven't seen one do well at a tournament. I tried a few in a beginner league in my area just to test them out, and wasn't impressed.

Double MC80 placed in top-8 in DallasDouble ISD in top 4 in Louisville

Serious? Someone managed to make two ship activations work? How!

We had an ISD and Demo with Rhymerball at Tacoma in the top 4 I think.

I'm thinking dual ISD and dual MC80, as they're the only Large ships currently. And I haven't seen one do well at a tournament. I tried a few in a beginner league in my area just to test them out, and wasn't impressed.

Double MC80 placed in top-8 in DallasDouble ISD in top 4 in Louisville

Serious? Someone managed to make two ship activations work? How!

We had an ISD and Demo with Rhymerball at Tacoma in the top 4 I think.

That's why I like Firesprays with Dengar and Rhymer.

The way I play them they don't give a fig about carrier activations. Dengar is there to give TWO spheres of intel, Rhymer is there to give medium range. My "carriers" are there to make people think i'm actually going to throw squadron commands. In point of fact I tend to throw about 2 squadron commands and 1 of those is to bank a token the rest is Nav and CF/Eng

The whole point is you bait someone to come after your "carriers" and if they don't take the bait they can get piss-pounded by Firesprays.

PT as an average player I will attempt to run your list to the best of my ability in my next couple of games and see how it goes (and I mean that, I would never lose to prove a point) I would love to see an alternative to the tired archetypes, I just see too many obvious weaknesses and if *I* see them, better players than me will see them too!

Also, don't underestimate people that understand how to play second, also, I would be happy to let you chase my ISD while my firesprays pick away at you, only an idiot engages when he can't concentrate fire. I wouldn't sit there and "trade" like a moron.

Sadly, jammers only work on Squad v. Squad.

I also agree that Rhymer balls will become more prevalent with flotillas, but I still think they will be more easily countered.

How do other people feel about Wave 3?

I think there's a lot of knee-jerk concerning how Wave 3 will influence things. What looks great on paper is not always great in practice, and what looks bad on paper might have a pretty comprehensive thought-out plan in the game. Wave-3 brings boosts to bombers, but it also boosts anti-squadron. Several upgrades influence the fighter meta in some fashion, and the cheap squadron activations will make a difference. I think we'll see an upper limit on the overall effect upon activations. We might have to invent a concept called "activation quality," that represents how much overall utility an activation brings. In the right fleet, delaying activations can be huge, but if you're just throwing a couple of squadrons out there each time over 4-5 activations, the overall utility might be a lot less than a big activation from a ship, which also gets to take shots at ships.

In short, I think it will probably settle down a bit. It will be easier for that swarm fleet to take a couple of flotillas and then activate them from the flotillas than before, while also padding activations. In short, it makes it easier to bring squadrons, and the mere fact that you have six or so squadrons is what is going to help in countering Rhymer balls. If you didn't bring much to start, then don't expect to do well against them.

Jamming fields also make it harder to kill bombers, who cares if your Tie Bomber loses it's one dice, the benefit of your opponent losing one dice is a great trade off, sadly it makes Dengars counter one useless, same for the Aggressor Assault Fighter, and makes Tie-Interceptors + A-wings a lot less nasty to shoot at, going to be a very interesting upgrade.

And Rhymer is hugely powerful, standard squadron firing range is 7.5cm, Rhymer pumps that up to 18.6cm, that means a huge sphere of influence, and if placed right, you do not even need to activate them for several rounds. Demolisher is one ship, Rhymer can theoretically give that range boost to another 13 Tie Bombers, or 9 Tie Advanced! just chaperone them with a couple of Raiders, ugh nasty nasty nasty.

The thing is, my lists tend to be either all ship, mostly ships, with anti squadron, squadrons, a few ships and 134pts of squadrons. Rhymer makes it into one of them 3, Demo into one of them 3. Hardly must take in every build.

Jamming fields also make it harder to kill bombers, who cares if your Tie Bomber loses it's one dice, the benefit of your opponent losing one dice is a great trade off, sadly it makes Dengars counter one useless, same for the Aggressor Assault Fighter, and makes Tie-Interceptors + A-wings a lot less nasty to shoot at, going to be a very interesting upgrade.

And Rhymer is hugely powerful, standard squadron firing range is 7.5cm, Rhymer pumps that up to 18.6cm, that means a huge sphere of influence, and if placed right, you do not even need to activate them for several rounds. Demolisher is one ship, Rhymer can theoretically give that range boost to another 13 Tie Bombers, or 9 Tie Advanced! just chaperone them with a couple of Raiders, ugh nasty nasty nasty.

The thing is, my lists tend to be either all ship, mostly ships, with anti squadron, squadrons, a few ships and 134pts of squadrons. Rhymer makes it into one of them 3, Demo into one of them 3. Hardly must take in every build.

You can ignore your own Jamming Fields. All upgrades are optional unless they state otherwise. Drasnighta pointed this out in the Jamming Fields thread. Until FFG says otherwise that I'd how it will be played. So your TIE Bombers will get their very consistent 1 black die while e enemies YT2400's will only get 3 blue dice.

I also agree that Rhymer balls will become more prevalent with flotillas, but I still think they will be more easily countered.

How do other people feel about Wave 3?

I think there's a lot of knee-jerk concerning how Wave 3 will influence things. What looks great on paper is not always great in practice, and what looks bad on paper might have a pretty comprehensive thought-out plan in the game. Wave-3 brings boosts to bombers, but it also boosts anti-squadron. Several upgrades influence the fighter meta in some fashion, and the cheap squadron activations will make a difference. I think we'll see an upper limit on the overall effect upon activations. We might have to invent a concept called "activation quality," that represents how much overall utility an activation brings. In the right fleet, delaying activations can be huge, but if you're just throwing a couple of squadrons out there each time over 4-5 activations, the overall utility might be a lot less than a big activation from a ship, which also gets to take shots at ships.

In short, I think it will probably settle down a bit. It will be easier for that swarm fleet to take a couple of flotillas and then activate them from the flotillas than before, while also padding activations. In short, it makes it easier to bring squadrons, and the mere fact that you have six or so squadrons is what is going to help in countering Rhymer balls. If you didn't bring much to start, then don't expect to do well against them.

Well in practice, GR75's WITH tractor beams and slicer tools have been working great to counter Demolisher! The upcoming Vassal tournament will be interesting

Jamming fields also make it harder to kill bombers, who cares if your Tie Bomber loses it's one dice, the benefit of your opponent losing one dice is a great trade off, sadly it makes Dengars counter one useless, same for the Aggressor Assault Fighter, and makes Tie-Interceptors + A-wings a lot less nasty to shoot at, going to be a very interesting upgrade.

And Rhymer is hugely powerful, standard squadron firing range is 7.5cm, Rhymer pumps that up to 18.6cm, that means a huge sphere of influence, and if placed right, you do not even need to activate them for several rounds. Demolisher is one ship, Rhymer can theoretically give that range boost to another 13 Tie Bombers, or 9 Tie Advanced! just chaperone them with a couple of Raiders, ugh nasty nasty nasty.

The thing is, my lists tend to be either all ship, mostly ships, with anti squadron, squadrons, a few ships and 134pts of squadrons. Rhymer makes it into one of them 3, Demo into one of them 3. Hardly must take in every build.

You can ignore your own Jamming Fields. All upgrades are optional unless they state otherwise. Drasnighta pointed this out in the Jamming Fields thread. Until FFG says otherwise that I'd how it will be played. So your TIE Bombers will get their very consistent 1 black die while e enemies YT2400's will only get 3 blue dice.

If that is the case, then even better.

Curious how it works with Counter, field on for enemy attack, field off for your counter fire to that attack?, then on again for the next enemy attack? can see that upsetting the apple cart, or is it more jamming their comms and not your own?

Jamming fields also make it harder to kill bombers, who cares if your Tie Bomber loses it's one dice, the benefit of your opponent losing one dice is a great trade off, sadly it makes Dengars counter one useless, same for the Aggressor Assault Fighter, and makes Tie-Interceptors + A-wings a lot less nasty to shoot at, going to be a very interesting upgrade.

And Rhymer is hugely powerful, standard squadron firing range is 7.5cm, Rhymer pumps that up to 18.6cm, that means a huge sphere of influence, and if placed right, you do not even need to activate them for several rounds. Demolisher is one ship, Rhymer can theoretically give that range boost to another 13 Tie Bombers, or 9 Tie Advanced! just chaperone them with a couple of Raiders, ugh nasty nasty nasty.

The thing is, my lists tend to be either all ship, mostly ships, with anti squadron, squadrons, a few ships and 134pts of squadrons. Rhymer makes it into one of them 3, Demo into one of them 3. Hardly must take in every build.

You can ignore your own Jamming Fields. All upgrades are optional unless they state otherwise. Drasnighta pointed this out in the Jamming Fields thread. Until FFG says otherwise that I'd how it will be played. So your TIE Bombers will get their very consistent 1 black die while e enemies YT2400's will only get 3 blue dice.

If that is the case, then even better.

Curious how it works with Counter, field on for enemy attack, field off for your counter fire to that attack?, then on again for the next enemy attack? can see that upsetting the apple cart, or is it more jamming their comms and not your own?

Think of it as a frequency jammer and your guys are just on a different frequency.

That's why I like Firesprays with Dengar and Rhymer.

The way I play them they don't give a fig about carrier activations. Dengar is there to give TWO spheres of intel, Rhymer is there to give medium range. My "carriers" are there to make people think i'm actually going to throw squadron commands. In point of fact I tend to throw about 2 squadron commands and 1 of those is to bank a token the rest is Nav and CF/Eng

The whole point is you bait someone to come after your "carriers" and if they don't take the bait they can get piss-pounded by Firesprays.

.

Why would anyone think your banking squadron commands ore even have a carrier when you are running s bunch of rogues? And probably have no carrier based upgrades?

That's why I like Firesprays with Dengar and Rhymer.

The way I play them they don't give a fig about carrier activations. Dengar is there to give TWO spheres of intel, Rhymer is there to give medium range. My "carriers" are there to make people think i'm actually going to throw squadron commands. In point of fact I tend to throw about 2 squadron commands and 1 of those is to bank a token the rest is Nav and CF/Eng

The whole point is you bait someone to come after your "carriers" and if they don't take the bait they can get piss-pounded by Firesprays.

.

Why would anyone think your banking squadron commands ore even have a carrier when you are running s bunch of rogues? And probably have no carrier based upgrades?

Activated squadrons are twice as powerful as rogues when attacking enemy squadrons.

That's why I like Firesprays with Dengar and Rhymer.

The way I play them they don't give a fig about carrier activations. Dengar is there to give TWO spheres of intel, Rhymer is there to give medium range. My "carriers" are there to make people think i'm actually going to throw squadron commands. In point of fact I tend to throw about 2 squadron commands and 1 of those is to bank a token the rest is Nav and CF/Eng

The whole point is you bait someone to come after your "carriers" and if they don't take the bait they can get piss-pounded by Firesprays.

.

Why would anyone think your banking squadron commands ore even have a carrier when you are running s bunch of rogues? And probably have no carrier based upgrades?

Activated squadrons are twice as powerful as rogues when attacking enemy squadrons.

Activated squadrons can't do jack unless I've left my rogues in range of them... Given that I know when rogues move in comparison to activated squadrons it would be pretty silly to leave them all up the field eh.... Kinda defeats the purpose of rogues... Luckily I've learnt that lesson the hard way so if you're looking to alpha strike my rogues I won't be making it easy for you. Others obviously haven't learnt that lesson hard enough yet!

That's why I like Firesprays with Dengar and Rhymer.

The way I play them they don't give a fig about carrier activations. Dengar is there to give TWO spheres of intel, Rhymer is there to give medium range. My "carriers" are there to make people think i'm actually going to throw squadron commands. In point of fact I tend to throw about 2 squadron commands and 1 of those is to bank a token the rest is Nav and CF/Eng

The whole point is you bait someone to come after your "carriers" and if they don't take the bait they can get piss-pounded by Firesprays.

.

Why would anyone think your banking squadron commands ore even have a carrier when you are running s bunch of rogues? And probably have no carrier based upgrades?

Activated squadrons are twice as powerful as rogues when attacking enemy squadrons.

Activated squadrons can't do jack unless I've left my rogues in range of them... Given that I know when rogues move in comparison to activated squadrons it would be pretty silly to leave them all up the field eh.... Kinda defeats the purpose of rogues... Luckily I've learnt that lesson the hard way so if you're looking to alpha strike my rogues I won't be making it easy for you. Others obviously haven't learnt that lesson hard enough yet!

A person who has had many a battle in that area by the sounds of it.

I hate sounding like I am ripping on people's competition but if people have not learned these tricks by now, they should play more and do more analysis.

Just throwing squadrons about for fun is not smart at all.

I bank a squadron command to get the jump on an enemy with rogues. MOST people I play ASSUME I will be using my ships as carriers because that is the safe assumption to make. When you are moving your ships into potential fireball alpha strike range you change your game slightly. I usually only end up throwing 1 squadron command with a token and a squadron command with my raider to activate all my squads at an opportune time to jump out and alpha before low fighter lists have a chance to attempt a lockdown (they have the choice to either send their squadrons ahead and get them shredded or keep them back and eat a full alpha). Usually this is the same turn I Ozzel pounce to keep all my assets close to each other and focus fire something expensive down and run away if necessary.

WHEN you do this greatly depends on the opponent.

I remember playing against a 3 ISD Motti list where I manouvered for 4 rounds before pouncing running my ISD so that it blocked his 2 other ISDs from the fight. ISD double arc, full fireball and Demolisher later = 1 dead ISD, no casualties on my side 7-3 win. If he had rushed instead of manouvered it would have been worse (minefields FTW). Ironically, that same player at a future tournament brought a more balanced list (ISD, 2 raiders, VSD, a couple covering fighters) against my list which was very similar with some refinements and this time he tried to rush and basically fed his fleet into a wood chipper.

There are as many ways to play the game as there are ways to build fleets and while some things are really stupid to do 9 times out of 10 (like rushing squadrons out unsupported) there are also things you can do to make players second-guess what would have been the right move. When I play Armada in tournaments I sometimes get the exact same feeling as I do when I bluff playing poker at a Casino. You confidently make a move and in your head you are reciting "Please don't call, please don't call, omg don't call" (this is probably why i'm not a great Armada player, sometimes I gamble where the "safe" move would have sufficed)

I bank a squadron command to get the jump on an enemy with rogues. MOST people I play ASSUME I will be using my ships as carriers because that is the safe assumption to make.

Actually, there is merit in this assumption (or in using squadron commands with rogues). It is the question of the timing for bringing forward a fighter screen, I think.

It still doesn't matter much, although I can see it to be surprising for some people being used to "carriers-always-stay-behind" paradigm.

The style works, you just have to be careful in a tournament environment. If you are not being aggressive enough, that 7-3 win may not cut it for the overall win.

The style works, you just have to be careful in a tournament environment. If you are not being aggressive enough, that 7-3 win may not cut it for the overall win.

Yup, but as I said before, I'm not an amazing player by any stretch. My goal is usually to get in a swag position not win the whole thing. So far it has meant a big pile of store champs rulers, accidentally winning a store champs and winning a closely contested tourney with 3 x 7-3s .

The style works, you just have to be careful in a tournament environment. If you are not being aggressive enough, that 7-3 win may not cut it for the overall win.

Yup, but as I said before, I'm not an amazing player by any stretch. My goal is usually to get in a swag position not win the whole thing. So far it has meant a big pile of store champs rulers, accidentally winning a store champs and winning a closely contested tourney with 3 x 7-3s .

It happens but it would depend on so many factors. . . Who you played, who your opponents played. . . I have seen so many tournaments won by 23+ points. I am not even sure if I have seen a 20-22 point tournament winner. . .

and around and around we go where it will stop nobody knows

and around and around we go where it will stop nobody knows

I'll try to get us back on track and then throw us off the track again...

I don't think there is enough diversity to say there is something broken in the game (although I'm definitely leaning towards a FAQ on ET equipped Demo). You have 4 ships on the Imperial side and 5 on the Rebel side and what, 16 squads to choose from?

(Other than he Rebel propaganda to nerf Demo with ET) I agree with Stasy. There simply aren't enough ships right now. If you are taking a Gladiator, 10 points to make it Demolisher are just too efficient. The same really goes with Rhymer. Adding 8 points to a bomber so that then every other squad can shoot at medium is just too efficient.

As we start getting other ships and squadrons I will imagine other list archetypes being built. But for now, Demo and Rhymer are hard to keep out when you take a Gladiator or a bomber list.

Now, let's get to the really important stuff, and away from the Rebel Propaganda about the beautiful Imperial lists:

In the immortal words of Clon:

"#TRCMostBrokenCard

#LeaveDemoAlone"

Truer words have never been spoken. I cannot remember the last time I faced a CR90-A WITHOUT TRCs. TRCs make those blasted things OP and there are no threads talking about the fact the it is basically now an auto include when you have 51 points and need a ship. All the Rebel players I know keep winning with them, but nobody calls it for what it is:

#TRC90sOP

# RebelWhiners

I'll try to get us back on track and then throw us off the track again...

I don't think there is enough diversity to say there is something broken in the game (although I'm definitely leaning towards a FAQ on ET equipped Demo). You have 4 ships on the Imperial side and 5 on the Rebel side and what, 16 squads to choose from?

(Other than he Rebel propaganda to nerf Demo with ET) I agree with Stasy. There simply aren't enough ships right now. If you are taking a Gladiator, 10 points to make it Demolisher are just too efficient. The same really goes with Rhymer. Adding 8 points to a bomber so that then every other squad can shoot at medium is just too efficient.

As we start getting other ships and squadrons I will imagine other list archetypes being built. But for now, Demo and Rhymer are hard to keep out when you take a Gladiator or a bomber list.

Now, let's get to the really important stuff, and away from the Rebel Propaganda about the beautiful Imperial lists:

In the immortal words of Clon:

"#TRCMostBrokenCard

#LeaveDemoAlone"

Truer words have never been spoken. I cannot remember the last time I faced a CR90-A WITHOUT TRCs. TRCs make those blasted things OP and there are no threads talking about the fact the it is basically now an auto include when you have 51 points and need a ship. All the Rebel players I know keep winning with them, but nobody calls it for what it is:

#TRC90sOP

# RebelWhiners

I'll try to get us back on track and then throw us off the track again...

I don't think there is enough diversity to say there is something broken in the game (although I'm definitely leaning towards a FAQ on ET equipped Demo). You have 4 ships on the Imperial side and 5 on the Rebel side and what, 16 squads to choose from?

(Other than he Rebel propaganda to nerf Demo with ET) I agree with Stasy. There simply aren't enough ships right now. If you are taking a Gladiator, 10 points to make it Demolisher are just too efficient. The same really goes with Rhymer. Adding 8 points to a bomber so that then every other squad can shoot at medium is just too efficient.

As we start getting other ships and squadrons I will imagine other list archetypes being built. But for now, Demo and Rhymer are hard to keep out when you take a Gladiator or a bomber list.

Now, let's get to the really important stuff, and away from the Rebel Propaganda about the beautiful Imperial lists:

In the immortal words of Clon:

"#TRCMostBrokenCard

#LeaveDemoAlone"

Truer words have never been spoken. I cannot remember the last time I faced a CR90-A WITHOUT TRCs. TRCs make those blasted things OP and there are no threads talking about the fact the it is basically now an auto include when you have 51 points and need a ship. All the Rebel players I know keep winning with them, but nobody calls it for what it is:

#TRC90sOP

# RebelWhiners

I approve This Message

Most likely. . . Well. . . How to put this diplomatically. . . Oh frak it.

This is due to them not winning a majority of tournaments.

TRC'S are indeed strong but they are a force equalizer. They help keep out CR90's nimble and useful and still a treat.

Now, I will take a quote from IceQube who won nationals a few days a go on Demolisher and Rhymer

----------------------- DEMO & RHYMER --------------------------------------------------

Why they are good for the game. I agree that the Imps don't have better tools yet.

Demolisher - if it doesn't exist, let's imagine how games would go. Imps rush Ackbar Gunlines and take massive damage. The Demolisher lets the Imperials break the siege, catch running Corvettes, and disrupts formations. In the current meta, the Imps can't win a long-range firefight with the Rebels. Demolisher helps close the distance. Demolisher adds TEMPO!

- block with Rieekan ship

- bombers

- bait with another ship

- Tractor beams

- out-activate

- go first

Rhymer - if he doesn't exist, Imp squadrons will take more AS flak, you won't be able to break an Ackbar Gunline, you can't reach fleeing Corvettes...

- Cluster bombs?

It's hard for the Imps to include both and do well with both of these in them. Rebels just have more flexibility in builds right now."