I usually play with lots of squadrons - both bombers and fighters.

But, I was thinking recently, if you wanted to dedicate a ship (or ships) to anti squadron work - i.e. a "flak boat", what would you take?

This is something that you would deliberately send to seek out and gun down squadrons rather than a ship that can put up a decent defense against squadrons - something that you'd consider sending after a Rhymerball

The ones that came to mind were:

• Raider 1 + Instigator.
• Gladiator 2 + Demolisher (I know there are better uses for Demolisher, but it can fairly maul squadrons if it needs to)

• AF2(A)
• Nebulon-B Escort Frigate

Upgrades could be Quad Turrets, Ruthless Strategists or even cluster bombs.

The Imperials seem to have the better options as they are generally cheaper. I think I'd have a hard time dedicating an AF2 (with upgrades).

Would you need to add something with "Escort" to act as a sandbag so the ship can get it's shots in, or do you think it could manage on it's own?

Problem with rebel anti-fighter ships is that they have to remember that the greatest fighter to ship threat is gonna be ryhmer, who is going to be doing his best to stay at medium range. This can make it harder to line up good shots against a large numbers of fighters.

Additionally, I think you pay way too many points for that extra AS dice on the AFIIA, and the neb B is good but not many lists incorporate them because of their relative fragility.

Honestly you might be better off with a CR90 swarm for AS from a ship, as at least you have the benefit of numbers there.

I think the first and most obvious answer to this question would be a Raider I + Instigator + Ordnance Experts. You are virtually guaranteed of 2 damage per squadron per shot, and things get stuck to the raider thanks to Instigator.

I would suggest Demolisher (and the AF2A) are too expensive to use as a squadron blaster alone.

I think the first and most obvious answer to this question would be a Raider I + Instigator + Ordnance Experts. You are virtually guaranteed of 2 damage per squadron per shot, and things get stuck to the raider thanks to Instigator.

I would suggest Demolisher (and the AF2A) are too expensive to use as a squadron blaster alone.

I'd agree on both points actually.

The first idea I was playing with was a Raider 1 + Instigator + Ruthless Strategists along with an Aggressor or two - or even Bossk for a giggle

The plan would be to take on opposing squadrons directly where they they either shoot at the Aggressors and take the return fire or shoot at the Raider and still take a counter 1 but also trigger the Ruthless Strategists. The Aggressors themselves aren't too shabby either with 4x blue dice.

The advantage of something like this (to me anyway) would be

1. Free up the rest of your fleet to make best use of non-squadron orders on the command dial
2. Even if there's no opposing squadrons, you still have a raider and 2x Aggressors to throw dice at the other player

Toryn Farr will be a fantastic anti-squadron upgrade for the Rebels. Makes any ship better although she obviously gives the most benefit to the 2-Blue ships like the Escort Frigate.

My main AS-dedicated ship is RDR2: Impetuous, RS

Now you have my mind racing with possibilities. Bossk and an Aggressor or two with an Instigator Raider. Or, a good amount of points, but how about this:

- RDR-I, Instigator, RS, Quad Laser Turrets

- Two or three Aggressors

- Soontir Fel

The Raider pushes Soontir into combat, the Aggressors come in on their own. Lots of RS fun with the Raider, plus Soontir's dice, plus Aggressor dice. Now, what does your opponent do? Shooting at the Raider suffers Soontir damage and Counter fire with Ruthless Strategists. Firing at Soontir triggers his Counter, and he has two Defense Tokens. Firing at the Aggressors triggers Counter and Soontir damage. You should easily get two rounds of RS fire from the Raider, as well as some good shots from the squadrons. You're going to lose some stuff, but you're going to maul the crap out of your opponent to do it.

And once Wave 3 drops you can add Agent Kallus to your AS Raider-I for 3 guaranteed damage against unique squadrons. It should make Rebel squadron fleets just that bit more nervous.

I've toyed around with the idea of making the ships better. So far, I think you absolutely have to have some squadrons of your own. You then play them conservatively and ensure that you engage within firing range of your ships. The ships then give a boost to your squadrons in the anti-squadron game. Or at least that is the best idea I've come up with. The upgrades are iffy. QLT runs into the problem that the enemy has to be shooting at you. If you've brought enough squadrons, then you get no points out of the upgrade. Instigator is probably the best bet. PDR is too difficult to get working well. You're technically good on the points when you take your 6th AS shot from a 2-dice ship. I just often find myself wanting to take shots against ships.

In short, I wouldn't go out of your way to take an AS ship, but if you can find a way to integrate one into your fleet otherwise, then I think they can work. For example, running a cheap Gladiator to protect the flank of your ISD from ships and then rake any squadrons that get in front of it. If you're already taking Yavaris, you've got the squadrons and the 2 dice attack from the Nebulon-B escort if you want it. And if you do need to take AS shots from an MC80 Assault with Leading Shots, don't forget that you can spend a blue die to reroll the other if they both miss. I've not quite gotten a build with the Mk-IIA that I like yet. But if you're not taking the B for squadrons, then you should be taking the A with intent to close a bit further and double-arc, and also use your extra front (and sometimes rear) die. If you do face a heavy squadron set-up in that situation, you've got the 2 blue AS.

Since AS hits 50% of the time, you need 10 blue dice to drop the average squadron. Combining a couple of turns of 2 dice ship with your squadrons might be just what you need to push yourself over the top. My sense is that the bigger key is that you win the squadron game earlier and get those squadrons to pounding the enemy ships.

I would agree with pretty much all of what you said. Blue AS dice aren't as powerful as they seem to be. It would take three AS shots from a 2 Blue ship to bring down a single TIE Fighter on average rolls. That isn't to say you should never shoot at squadrons, but you should never rely on your ships to handle them without your own squadrons.

I think the Raider is the one exception. Two Black AS dice are likely to put out a LOT of damage. The shorter range is well compensated by the ship's speed and maneuverability. And with the Instigator title, you can pin those ships in place, drop to Speed One, and circle them with 2 Yaw turns all day. This only gets better with upgrades.

With the QLT on the above build, you're still likely to see whatever squadrons flying with the Raider to get hit by Intel, so they'll be able to fire at the ship rather than the squadrons. And they may want to fire on the ship to destroy it, so Intel allows them to fly away from your squadrons. But that's an extra deterrent. If they fire at Instigator, they take a point of damage from Soontir AND receive Counter 1 AND suffer a point of damage from RS, so guaranteed two damage, 50/50 shot at it being three. And considering that they already took one or two damage from the AS shots, that's a dead TIE Bomber.

Come wave three this will be the ultimate AS gunboat (imo). A double arced named squad could eat 10 black dice on a single attack run, all rerollable.

(60 pts)Raider I-class Corvette (44 pts) Impetuous (4 pts) Agent Kallus (3 pts) Ordnance Experts (4 pts) Quad Laser Turrets (5 pts)

For me as a newb player, I focus on the cards and how much dice they can pump out against squads. But for me, It's Squad on Squad action that has helped me get my first win the other day on my first game ever.

I think they should errata counter attack on quads to shoot more than distance 1. It should just fire at a squadron that fires at you. This has been the main reason I've not looked hard at quad laser turrets as a adequate fleet defense in the face of so much Rhymerball.

Admonition is an anti squadron ship to some extent. It can quite happily weather a fair amount of sniping shots before zooming off. Its a delaying tactic to be sure, but it may buy the time needed to kill the carriers.

MC80's and ISD's deserve a mention.

My regionals list has included an escort Nebulon with Lando as a flak barge and 'bait' ship. Yes, fighter cover is still essential; I wouldn't dream of using just a single flak barge and thinking that's adequate to hold off any determined attack, but using a Nebulon B with the express purpose of softening up enemy fighters and helping with area denial around more expensive ships (Mc80 or Mc30's) can't be under estimated. It's true that AA, as of yet, cannot decimate enemy waves to the degree that they act as significant deterrents to enemy heavy bombers.

Between it, Jan, 2 X-wngs, and Tycho I mauled 6 Tie squadrons and destroyed 8 more on my last game (admittedly, they were almost perfect targets for an AA ship but my fighter cover alone wouldn't have been enough to scratch it). But the comfort of that was less about its killing potential and more that it freed up my Defiance MC80 as a dedicated warship. Losing the ability to shoot at a ship with 1 red 1 blue vs. 2 blue on X medium range squadrons is a good trade off. But passing up the chance to shoot at a ship with 3 red, 3 blue, leading shot, plus intel officer, is an astronomical misappropriation of force in all but the most dire circumstances. If nothing else, the Nebulon B acted as a relatively cheap activation, a surprisingly sturdy frame, and a potential pocket carrier for interceptors (further extending its anti-snubfighter role).

I love instigator and a second raider with OE backed up by a little tie ball (4-6). Instigator goes in to hold the bombers in place, the tie fighters go in to stop all the bombers targeting instigator, then the second raider barrels in, next round you will get two arcs worth of AAA fire from each raider........

The real threat on Raiders is going to be Raider-1, OE, Kallus, and QLTs on Impetuous. It'll solo any 5 hull hero ship with braces if it gets shot at or if it gets a double arc.

But more importantly than that, the biggest threat is actually going to be the transports. Gozanti Cruisers and GR-75 Transports fire black dice AS and will be close by activating squadrons. Combined with solid anti-squadron defenses, a lot of players are going to be using them for adding bonus hits on squadrons as they delay activation.

Demolisher on a GSD 2 with Ruthless strategist becomes a pretty deadly anti squadron ship.

For the Empire (I play them 90% of the time) I use a lot of Raider II's. The blue/black I think is better than the black/black due to having some range.

When I play the Rebel (not often) I use a lot of the Nebulon-B Escort Frigate, I will not use the Guppy (it is just so ugly of a model), but the main anti-fighter I use for the Rebels are there fighters as they are just so much better than the useless Empire fighters.

they are just so much better than the useless Empire fighters.

You must not be fielding/facing the right lists. Imperials can lay some serious hurt with the right squadrons. They're not quite as plug-and-play at X-Wings, but **** are they deadly.

For the Empire (I play them 90% of the time) I use a lot of Raider II's. The blue/black I think is better than the black/black due to having some range.

When I play the Rebel (not often) I use a lot of the Nebulon-B Escort Frigate, I will not use the Guppy (it is just so ugly of a model), but the main anti-fighter I use for the Rebels are there fighters as they are just so much better than the useless Empire fighters.

I'm the opposite in that I play the Rebels, always. But I do agree with your use of the Neb, especially the Escort variant. The Neb is just such a versatile ship, able to fill many roles with its different titles, and can easily change roles in the midst of battle at a very low cost. In AS roles, it's side arc catches a huge swath with 2 blues. When the rebels get Toryn Farr, that's going to be capable of threatening enemy swarms, deadly when combined with fighter cover.

Corvettes are also capable of decimating fighter groups when traveling in swarms. I recently had a game where I tied down 8 enemy bombers with 2 aces over 2 rounds (using Rieekan) and reduced them to 2 bombers before they got off a shot on my ships. Granted, my 3 corvettes didn't take any ship shots during that time, but I kept his carriers at long range the whole time, and he couldn't really do much after I took out his bombers. Not an efficient use of fleets points, but it is how I adjusted to the situation.

The Raider is still the king of AS ships as far as taking shots and locking fighters down (I refer you to the majority of the posts above), but the real champ is Yavaaris. Dutch. Wedge. Adar Talon. Throw in Torynn Farr on another ship. Absolute Shutdown. If we're going to talk about AS capabilities, Yavaaris presents a special dynamic to the carrier aspect of ships in that you get double the use out of the best Anti-squadron asset you have: other squadrons. That's 18 blue dice from Wedge alone, if done perfectly, and that's not too hard to accomplish. It costs a ton, but this force is also capable of seriously threatening ships (once again enforcing my belief that this is the lowest-costing versatile ship in the game). And Yavaris can still take its 3 red snipe at enemy ships along with a giant broadside of 2 blues against the fighters you just shut down. You just have to get Yavaaris to last long enough to accomplish the mission.

they are just so much better than the useless Empire fighters.

You must not be fielding/facing the right lists. Imperials can lay some serious hurt with the right squadrons. They're not quite as plug-and-play at X-Wings, but **** are they deadly.

Agreed. I think the issue is that, with the exception of firesprays and aggressors (because of the black ship shot), the empire's squadron game is very polarized. Whereas X-wings can fill several rolls, the empire has squadrons that fill a single role at a lower cost, and they have more synergy. Their anti-squadron capabilities are deadly. If the empire gets the alpha strike with a dedicated and synergized AS wing, it's over for the other force. You really only need to throw a single ace into the mix to increase their hitting power significantly, but the issue is survivability (and I think this is where CDAT is justified in his belief of empire inferiority, amongst other obvious reasons . If the empire doesn't get the alpha strike, then they will most likely loose the squadron game because of their fragility.

Park - I think your last sentence, especially, has a lot of merit. You can alpha strike with Howlrunner and an Interceptor swarm with Flight Controllers and absolutely annihilate something. Add in Mauler and it gets even worse. Without something like Jan Braces, that can easily wipe away one 5 Hull squadron from Howl/Mauler, and then one more 5 Hull squadron per Interceptor. Use an ISD with Expanded Hangars and a banked Squadron command, and you're talking five X-Wings/TIE Bombers/pretty much anything wiped away in a single activation. Survivability isn't really an issue at that point, because whatever's left has a tough choice. Do you go after the Interceptors and suffer Counter 3 but pop several, or do you go after Howl to get rid of that extra Blue die, but take longer to do it with her two tokens? Even a Jan/X-Wing group would be in trouble, because you're talking three dead X-Wings, and that's if Jan discards both of her Braces.

But, if your opponent has some of their own Speed 5 squadrons, they can get the jump on you. A pair of A-Wings or TIE Interceptors would be just enough to break up such an alpha strike glass cannon. They're going to die, yes, but now your opponent is coming in limping and it gives you an opportunity to maneuver some beefier squadrons, like X-Wings, into position for a follow up kill shot.

That last statement about how good tie's can be from Parkdaddy is why I'm so happy to see the Vector title. Bumping Tie's to Speed 5 makes even just a minimal squad of 3 fighters and Howlrunner very long ranged, and very hard hitting for only 40 points. Your Anti squadron works out to 15 blue with 3 Rerolls. For a only 40 points its also equipped with 12 wounds and you have to deal with Howlrunners scatter and brace. With just a 77 point commitment you have a anti squadron force that can easily win squad fights to protect your ships.

Ive found the best Imperial ship antifighter is gunnery teams on ISDs, preferably even adding Quad lasers. If the TIEs are able to do a decent spread of damage across most of the enemy squadrons before dying then you have a pretty good chance of sweeping them away, and even damaged X wings etc will have to think hard about hanging around to bomb you.