I run the same but without FCS. If all the pieces in the list it was most disposable. Where you have Zeta I run two Academy blockers and they really help to occupy and block people while Whisper and Redline dish the pain.

I need FCS to reacquire both TLs in between cluster shots, it's the only way to ensure 6 hits most of the times. Plus, it keeps Redline on target, so he can k-turn and shoot another salvo.

The TIE punisher is effectively two bomber aces with upgraded ships. If you're spending enough to justify the Punisher over the Bomber you might as well get the King of Rockets and the King of Bombs.

&

Not cool. [shakes head]

So you actually enjoy the billion topics complaining about Bad Ships and the 100 point game crap-fest every single week...

sycks are okay. They aren't frontline fighters, but they aren't useless. Hawks are absolutely my second favourite ship in the game (Regularly use Jan Ors, for example, and I seem to recall a 4 HWK list going 6-0 on day one of the the Yavin Open...), right behind the T-65. I love the T-65. search Lets Discuss Rogue Squadron on youtube for a suggestion of how to use them, but it's by no means the only one that works. Hells bells, Biggs with the bot that reduces damage to 2 is ideal with the meta erupting in U-boats right now.

The Punisher I don't like, but that's more to do with aesthetics than ability. I've seen them work very well, and you're advised to play about with them.

The E-wing, meh. Don't like the model. I've used Etahn and a z-95 swarm to great effect in epic, and coran is pure fun on the table. I still see him and Dash around, maybe not as much as we used to.

Every ship in the game has a use, sometimes it's just a matter of finding it. I wish you luck.

sycks are okay. They aren't frontline fighters, but they aren't useless.

I'm not sure. As filler the Z-95 made them near obsolete on release, the missile and torpedo upgrade is almost pointless when the cannon is available and I've yet to see a cannon equipped Scyk that's value for points.

with a mindlink they become quite action efficient. and Serrisu is awesome.

Here is my list, and includes only 4 ships that desperatly need help:

1 - M3a

2 - Kirahzz

3 - Punisher

4 - Imperial Firespray

Redline doesn't need any help. You help Redline, you risk to OP him. A second good pilot might help, but I for one wouldn't want to fly more than one Punisher. They shouldn't become the next u-boats.

Imperial Firespray should just be removed from the imperial roster, forget it ever existed.

The Punishers absolutely should have been the alpha strike list instead of the uboats. They are expensive, fragile, slow turning, heavy ordnance platforms that are festooned with munition launchers. Instead the best ordnance carriers in the game are stupid looking freighters with a crazy dial and a pwt. How the **** does that make any sense?!?

they wanted the punisher to not replace the bomber, so they understandably drove up the cost. problem is they gave it nothing in return (a system slot that requires additional points invested? Christmas came early )

well, nothing apart from the named pilots. They're still overpriced to hell, but you can at least get a glimpse of what the ship is capable of when its given crazy cool abilities to offset its horrible base capabilities

I think ffg is only now finally playing around with what the punisher should have had, 0 point titles that grant ships base abilities that otherwise wouldn't fit on the arc (ie the Arc and the Tie/sf)

as for the jumpy, I kinda get them giving it more love because it's a large base which clips very easily on obstacles and other ships whereas the punisher fits snugly between them far more easily. Arguably, they gave it a little too much love

5. M3-A - It's a A-Wing with horrible stats and almost no upgrade slots. It's so bad that no one plays them at all. Not even in epic. Might say it's worse then Z-95.

I would say that this ship struggled before the last wave. One Heavy with Ion Cannon wasn't too bad, but hard to fit into a list. Attani Mindlink has made the ship pretty viable recently, though. It's like having PTL on it. I still think it needs something, but it's not horrible. I know some people won Store Championships with them in their lists. They aren't horrible.

Oh, and if you haven't seen it in Epic, then people aren't that smart. It's fantastic for Epic with Mangler Cannons. You can get a ton of those guys for not that many points. They can light up an Epic ship with critical hits and cause a real nightmare.

4. T-65 X-Wing. Suppose to be one of the galaxies best ship. It's not, it's ****. Has no barrel roll or boost. Cost so much points, that you almost can't equip it with anything - not even a astromech. Also, B-Wing has taken the T-65s roll.

Haven't people placed in Top 8 in a couple Regionals lately with T-65's in their list. Integrated Astromech has made them equals to the B-wing in jousting efficiency, as well.

I did win a store champ and got to top 8 with Wes,Wedge and Poe. I guess I have to win a regional or something bigger before people can accept that the t-65 works. It's not the greatest but it's not the worst either, it's just in the middle where it should be with IA and possibility of picking BB-8.

I did win a store champ and got to top 8 with Wes,Wedge and Poe. I guess I have to win a regional or something bigger before people can accept that the t-65 works. It's not the greatest but it's not the worst either, it's just in the middle where it should be with IA and possibility of picking BB-8.

So you actually enjoy the billion topics complaining about Bad Ships and the 100 point game crap-fest every single week...

No, it's not so much that I like those posts, but that I think we all need to be respectful of each other's opinion. I put it in the perspective of me posting a thematic squad and a bunch of tourney guys come in and tell me my squads stink and are hopeless and inefficient. Well, maybe I should have made it clearer that the topic was about thematic play so the tourney folks don't need to bother reading the topic. But if I DID put that in my thread title, then shame on those tourney guys coming in and hi-jacking my thread.

This topic was clearly created from a tournament-oriented, 100-point squad perspective. If someone isn't interested in that format, the title makes it clear that they won't be interested in this thread. So I think it's bad form for those with a more casual attitude to tell the OP this is a bad topic that nobody wants to read, because it was very clear from this title what this thread would be about so nobody who chooses to read it should be surprised by the content. If one can tell that he/she is not the target audience for a topic, it does nobody any good to go and derail the topic anyway.

We are all smart people who can use our brains and I think we can all be a little more judicious about not only what we post, but where we're posting. It shows respect to the OP when we can self-assess and realize that the people in a given thread don't want our input anymore than we want to read that topic. But just because we don't like a topic, doesn't mean it should be silenced.

Had a lot of fun last night with Deathrain, Proton bombs, Conner Net, TIE Mk II Engines, and EM being escorted by Fel and Omega Leader. Tabled a BroBot list with him only firing once, taking OL's shield off while the other game was a bit longer but Deathrain dropped all four bombs in the second game, which greatly effected it's out come.

Competitive? Probably not. But fun none-the-less!

So you actually enjoy the billion topics complaining about Bad Ships and the 100 point game crap-fest every single week...

No, it's not so much that I like those posts, but that I thinl we all need to be respectful of each other's opinion. I put it in the perspective of me posting a thematic squad and a bunch of tourney guys come in and tell me my squads stink and are hopeless and inefficient. Well, maybe I should have made it clearer that the topic was about thematic play so the tourney folks don't need to bother reading the topic. But if I DID put that in my thread title, then shame on those tourney guys coming in and hi-jacking my thread.

This topic was clearly created from a tournament-oriented, 100-point squad perspective. If someone isn't interested in that format, the title makes it clear that they won't be interested in this thread. So I think it's bad form for those with a more casual attitude to tell the OP this is a bad topic that nobody wants to read, because it was very clear from this title what this thread would be about so nobody who chooses to read it should be surprised by the content. If one can tell that he/she is not the target audience for a topic, it does nobody any good to go and derail the topic anyway.

We are all smart people who can use our brains and I think we can all be a little more judicious about not only what we post, but where we're posting. It shows respect to the OP when we can self-assess and realize that the people in a given thread don't want our input anymore than we want to read that topic. But just because we don't like a topic, doesn't mean it should be silenced.

So everyone now agrees with me that redline is better than Deathrain? That's OK, I'll let you all onto the bandwagon. NBD.

The T65's are a lot of fun and you can build some interesting combos, I've been experimenting with them a lot and while yes, the do lack maneuverability compared to pretty much anything newer than a YT2400... they can be effective if flown and built properly. The trick is to experiment with the droids and the pilot abilities to have the complement each other. You'd be surprised at the fun combos you can find outside of R2D2 and BB8.

I don't think there can be a "this ship is the worst" because someone, somewhere is going to be able to build a championship level list from any ship. It's a matter of figuring it out, flying it, and making it work. Not everything needs a fix. Sure we would like some of our old ships to get updated to stabilize the power creep... but it comes down to play what you want.

Come on dudes, haven't you seen Troll Hunter? They do it just like people but it's all mossy and sounds like a gravel crusher on various settings of annihilation...

I hear Troll babies are kinda cute, like a pug, but they'll eat the hell outta you too.

You don't like the list? Well sorry.

You like to bash people for something you don't like? Well sorry.

I'm wrong? Meh maybe, should have ejected... (Hint Porkins)

Hey now! I didn't like the list, but engaged in conversation about it. I wouldn't even say argument. I admit I'll bite when it comes to these things. I also admit that I'm totally biased in my opinions, too.

Once I even thought about it and that there had to be a bottom 5, I did agree with some of your choices.

I do have a question about the top players using unconventional lists. Do you think so? I think they usually have slight variations of standard net lists, but they aren't really unconventional. Oh, there are some out there. I don't mean all of them, but I'm often bored with the repetition of the top tables.

I often find Paul Heaver and Nathan Eide are very creative. If not with the list it self, than with the use of the list.

Yes. I do agree that Paul Heaver is creative with his lists. I admit that I don't know Nathan at all and don't follow the top tables close enough to know people's names. I do think Paul Heaver is on top because he is very creative with his lists and practices the freakin' heck out of it a lot more than most people.

That's two, though. I don't think much beyond them that there is much creativity in the top lists. Tweaks and variants that are cool, but the main lists stick to the tried and tested netlists.

&

Why aren't the Z-95 and the E-Wing firing on the topic? Do they disagree with the assessment of the others?

Had a lot of fun last night with Deathrain, Proton bombs, Conner Net, TIE Mk II Engines, and EM being escorted by Fel and Omega Leader. Tabled a BroBot list with him only firing once, taking OL's shield off while the other game was a bit longer but Deathrain dropped all four bombs in the second game, which greatly effected it's out come.

Competitive? Probably not. But fun none-the-less!

So everyone now agrees with me that redline is better than Deathrain? That's OK, I'll let you all onto the bandwagon. NBD.

I am attempting to learn how to use non-primary munitions and I want to use Bombers and Punishers for such lessons. I haven't gotten Bombers on the table much (still learning basic TIEs and Interceptors honestly) but I am intrigued on these two (beyond their names of course)

The T65's are a lot of fun and you can build some interesting combos, I've been experimenting with them a lot and while yes, the do lack maneuverability compared to pretty much anything newer than a YT2400... they can be effective if flown and built properly. The trick is to experiment with the droids and the pilot abilities to have the complement each other. You'd be surprised at the fun combos you can find outside of R2D2 and BB8.

I don't think there can be a "this ship is the worst" because someone, somewhere is going to be able to build a championship level list from any ship. It's a matter of figuring it out, flying it, and making it work. Not everything needs a fix. Sure we would like some of our old ships to get updated to stabilize the power creep... but it comes down to play what you want.

The T-65 has come in and out of the meta, which is actually pretty impressive seeing as it is one of the original ships! New pilots, Astromechs, and mods keep refreshing this classic ship. The T-65 would never come close to making my top 5 (or 10) worst ships in the game.

You don't like the list? Well sorry.

You like to bash people for something you don't like? Well sorry.

I'm wrong? Meh maybe, should have ejected... (Hint Porkins)

Hey now! I didn't like the list, but engaged in conversation about it. I wouldn't even say argument. I admit I'll bite when it comes to these things. I also admit that I'm totally biased in my opinions, too.

Once I even thought about it and that there had to be a bottom 5, I did agree with some of your choices.

I do have a question about the top players using unconventional lists. Do you think so? I think they usually have slight variations of standard net lists, but they aren't really unconventional. Oh, there are some out there. I don't mean all of them, but I'm often bored with the repetition of the top tables.

I often find Paul Heaver and Nathan Eide are very creative. If not with the list it self, than with the use of the list.

Yes. I do agree that Paul Heaver is creative with his lists. I admit that I don't know Nathan at all and don't follow the top tables close enough to know people's names. I do think Paul Heaver is on top because he is very creative with his lists and practices the freakin' heck out of it a lot more than most people.

That's two, though. I don't think much beyond them that there is much creativity in the top lists. Tweaks and variants that are cool, but the main lists stick to the tried and tested netlists.

Traveling around to different stores in my area, I've meet and played against very creative players. Most of the tournaments I play in do not use a reporting software so the lists and winners are not out there for the forum to analyze. This is why many players often state "depending on your meta", because a lot of these reported common lists would be crushed in other gaming communities. Last tournament I attended there were at least 6 Brobots lists that I spotted. Only 1 of them made it to the top 8! I often think the available stats cause us to lose sight of how diverse this game really is.

So everyone now agrees with me that redline is better than Deathrain? That's OK, I'll let you all onto the bandwagon. NBD.

but that statement is meaningless because they don't even come close to performing even superficially similar tasks

Deathrain:

enjoy being out of the game for 3 to 4 rounds

Redline:

there was a thug here. he's gone now

&

Why aren't the Z-95 and the E-Wing firing on the topic? Do they disagree with the assessment of the others?

That is Koran and Dru and they are looking for the next jerk post to blast...lol.

&

Why aren't the Z-95 and the E-Wing firing on the topic? Do they disagree with the assessment of the others?

That is Koran and Dru and they are looking for the next jerk post to blast...lol.

Corran did do an awful lot of, "I'll do the targeting and lot other people do the actual firing." At least in the X-Wing series of books he did.

&

Why aren't the Z-95 and the E-Wing firing on the topic? Do they disagree with the assessment of the others?

That is Koran and Dru and they are looking for the next jerk post to blast...lol.

Corran did do an awful lot of, "I'll do the targeting and lot other people do the actual firing." At least in the X-Wing series of books he did.

?

damnit, Corran, give your double-tap to a cooler looking ship!

you can have Shara's ability

&

Why aren't the Z-95 and the E-Wing firing on the topic? Do they disagree with the assessment of the others?

That is Koran and Dru and they are looking for the next jerk post to blast...lol.

Corran did do an awful lot of, "I'll do the targeting and lot other people do the actual firing." At least in the X-Wing series of books he did.

?

damnit, Corran, give your double-tap to a cooler looking ship!

you can have Shara's ability

Yeah, as soon as I saw that card I knew that's what Corran should have had.

Corran did do an awful lot of, "I'll do the targeting and lot other people do the actual firing." At least in the X-Wing series of books he did.

?

damnit, Corran, give your double-tap to a cooler looking ship!

you can have Shara's ability

Yeah, as soon as I saw that card I knew that's what Corran should have had.

Then the poor E-wing would really get left off the table in competitive play! lol