I always enjoy the polite way you do it...

The top players often use unconventional lists that they have practiced.

Haha! Thanks. Love the GIF.

I do have a question about the top players using unconventional lists. Do you think so? I think they usually have slight variations of standard net lists, but they aren't really unconventional. Oh, there are some out there. I don't mean all of them, but I'm often bored with the repetition of the top tables.

Everyone has their favourites - I love Punisher (Redline, at least) and would always put that ahead of the Bomber in any list.

I'll have to think about what I would consider the worst 5 ships.

It also begs questions whether you're considering pilots in here, which I think you have to. The T-65 is a great example of a pretty average platform that has some stellar pilot abilities, and that puts it ahead of something like the Khiraxz, which is basically the same ship for 1pt less but has far worse pilot abilities.

Yes, this is true. Also....some ships can take crew...like The Emperor. So, I would normally put Lambda Shuttle or Decimator in the bottom, but they can take the Emperor and that changes the whole game.

So....if I had to go with the lower the number the worst it is:

5) Tie Phantom. Either your opponent has a counter for it or it doesn't. You either win fast or lose fast. It's a very binary ship.

4) Scyk - it has some builds that work, but not a lot. While I've used it for effect, overall it can be considered one of the worst.

3) Kihraxz Fighter is in the same boat. It's cheap and it dishes out damage, but that's about it. It needs a little something.

2) Firespray is just too expensive for what it does. I just never see these on the tables.

1) E-wing beyond Corran is just the worst. Too expensive that even I never see it in lists.

5) Tie Phantom. Either your opponent has a counter for it or it doesn't. You either win fast or lose fast. It's a very binary ship.

4) Scyk - it has some builds that work, but not a lot. While I've used it for effect, overall it can be considered one of the worst.

3) Kihraxz Fighter is in the same boat. It's cheap and it dishes out damage, but that's about it. It needs a little something.

2) Firespray is just too expensive for what it does. I just never see these on the tables.

1) E-wing beyond Corran is just the worst. Too expensive that even I never see it in lists.

Given where Scum was before Wave 8 it's probably right that there's mostly Scum in here.

You're not having the Phantom, though, that's not allowed. It wins FAR too many tournaments to be down there and there's no way it's worse than Starviper, Z-95, Bomber, Punisher... Echo is my favourite pilot in the entire game!

5) Tie Phantom. Either your opponent has a counter for it or it doesn't. You either win fast or lose fast. It's a very binary ship.

4) Scyk - it has some builds that work, but not a lot. While I've used it for effect, overall it can be considered one of the worst.

3) Kihraxz Fighter is in the same boat. It's cheap and it dishes out damage, but that's about it. It needs a little something.

2) Firespray is just too expensive for what it does. I just never see these on the tables.

1) E-wing beyond Corran is just the worst. Too expensive that even I never see it in lists.

Given where Scum was before Wave 8 it's probably right that there's mostly Scum in here.

You're not having the Phantom, though, that's not allowed. It wins FAR too many tournaments to be down there and there's no way it's worse than Starviper, Z-95, Bomber, Punisher...

It WON far too many tournaments. How many is it winning now, after the adjustment to the cloaking rules?

It WON far too many tournaments. How many is it winning now, after the adjustment to the cloaking rules?

Plenty, Phantom is back in a big way in Wave 8. Picked up the Naboo Open at the weekend, for instance.

You're not having the Phantom, though, that's not allowed. It wins FAR too many tournaments to be down there and there's no way it's worse than Starviper, Z-95, Bomber, Punisher... Echo is my favourite pilot in the entire game!

I have to leave it in the Worst Ships of X-wing. I hate that ship. It either wins big or loses big. It wins or loses in the list building stage. Worst ship in X-wing in my mind, but I had restraint and put it at 5th worst.

I totally recognize that this is not a commonly held believe. It's just near impossible for me to not have it on the list.

In my hands the TIE Phantom is definitely the worst ship to have...

"Oh dang... Forgot to de-cloak again... uh... which means I'll slide right in front of your ships.... and uh... I can't fire... um... This won't go well."

Fragile, expensive arc dodgers should all go here for me as well for similar type reasons...

And large base ships because I can't fly them without hitting rocks...

Um... and scum. I hate scum.

Say, what's that ship called? You know, the plastic one? Painted grey-ish? Yeah, all of those...

Yes, this is true. Also....some ships can take crew...like The Emperor. So, I would normally put Lambda Shuttle or Decimator in the bottom, but they can take the Emperor and that changes the whole game.

So....if I had to go with the lower the number the worst it is:

5) Tie Phantom. Either your opponent has a counter for it or it doesn't. You either win fast or lose fast. It's a very binary ship.

4) Scyk - it has some builds that work, but not a lot. While I've used it for effect, overall it can be considered one of the worst.

3) Kihraxz Fighter is in the same boat. It's cheap and it dishes out damage, but that's about it. It needs a little something.

2) Firespray is just too expensive for what it does. I just never see these on the tables.

1) E-wing beyond Corran is just the worst. Too expensive that even I never see it in lists.

In a store championship i flew against a list dubbed "Defense.EXE"

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!73:44,-1,70:-1:-1:U.152;74:30,44,-1,149:-1:-1:;4:-1,77:-1:20:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

it was a pain to fly against, albeit not unbeatable, but man was it annoying.

not sure why the phantom was mentioned as it's no longer a binary ship. after the de-cloak errata, anyone can beat it (except z-95s, but they couldn't beat a paraplegic in a foot race)

hell, I had to run against whisper 5 times yesterday, and once with nothing but a spent 4-lom torpscout (which actually beat whisper 1 on 1 ).

and even that scenario was the cause of some bs. see this turn?

that's a four health Xizor with a jump master in range of ability, staring down a completely unmodified whisper (FCS is locked on the scout behind xizor) at range 1

5 goddamn unmodified hits, 3 goddamn blanks; dead

torp scout still won it all

Well, in any ranking system something has to be at the bottom. Doesn't mean they're unplayable, but by definition something has to be worst.

I don't think the T-65 should be in the list, though, Hard to see how that gets there when the Starviper and TIE Bomber don't.

the irony is the bomber is on the long list of ships that are more cost efficient than the t-65

the starviper isn't

5) Tie Phantom. Either your opponent has a counter for it or it doesn't. You either win fast or lose fast. It's a very binary ship.

4) Scyk - it has some builds that work, but not a lot. While I've used it for effect, overall it can be considered one of the worst.

3) Kihraxz Fighter is in the same boat. It's cheap and it dishes out damage, but that's about it. It needs a little something.

2) Firespray is just too expensive for what it does. I just never see these on the tables.

1) E-wing beyond Corran is just the worst. Too expensive that even I never see it in lists.

Given where Scum was before Wave 8 it's probably right that there's mostly Scum in here.

You're not having the Phantom, though, that's not allowed. It wins FAR too many tournaments to be down there and there's no way it's worse than Starviper, Z-95, Bomber, Punisher...

It WON far too many tournaments. How many is it winning now, after the adjustment to the cloaking rules?

Plenty? Whisper's one of the go-to Aces.

You sure as hell see more Phantoms these days than, say, B-Wings.

And the fact you can see them proves they are one of the worst ships. Bloody cloaking devices never work the way they're supposed to.

@jimmius: OK....I'm sensing some hostility that I'm not sure where it's coming from. Not sure where that's coming from, but I'll be happy to discuss your replies.

(...)

To express it in an exaggerated manner:

Cause he always turns up when T65 is named and regardless of context of the original thread, starts about in how bad a place the T65 currently is. If someone dares to name IA, (s)he gets clubbed to death with the argument X-wings are still some 0,2% below B-wing jousting efficience (in a model where we do not know all the assumptions made, and were 100% is Z95)

Well, in any ranking system something has to be at the bottom. Doesn't mean they're unplayable, but by definition something has to be worst.

I don't think the T-65 should be in the list, though, Hard to see how that gets there when the Starviper and TIE Bomber don't.

This. X-wings are a bit meh right now, but they are generalists with some great pilots and can be tweaked to a number of roles.

Edit: typo

It WON far too many tournaments. How many is it winning now, after the adjustment to the cloaking rules?

Plenty, Phantom is back in a big way in Wave 8. Picked up the Naboo Open at the weekend, for instance.

There was a Phantom in the list that won the SoCal regional in San Diego. It seems like everyone from LA that isn't named Dallas Parker flies them.

I don't think the T-65 should be in the list, though, Hard to see how that gets there when the Starviper and TIE Bomber don't.

This. X-wings are a bit meh right now, but they are generalists with some great pilots and can be tweaked to a number of roles.

Edit: typo

by "Generalist" we mean either "bad jouster" or "best biggs"

ptl bb-8 wedge is okay, though

In my hands the TIE Phantom is definitely the worst ship to have..."Oh dang... Forgot to de-cloak again... uh... which means I'll slide right in front of your ships.... and uh... I can't fire... um... This won't go well."

Fragile, expensive arc dodgers should all go here for me as well for similar type reasons...

And large base ships because I can't fly them without hitting rocks...

Um... and scum. I hate scum.

Say, what's that ship called? You know, the plastic one? Painted grey-ish? Yeah, all of those...

Well typed, nice! I feel your pain haha!

Yeah, Wisper under my command seems an average ship at best; but I've watched a few pilots make pretty much every ship now held in high regard look toothless.... it's all in the mind/hands of the player.

You don't like the list? Well sorry.

You like to bash people for something you don't like? Well sorry.

I should fly more? Well yeah, that is what I'm trying. I play often T-65s but they are quite hard to win with, with all barrel roll and jumpmasters... Last time I won with 3 T-65 was against one player - a very veteran player - who had a Ghost, Attack Shuttle and 1 Y-Wing stressbot. Played with Wes, Wedge and Luke (Yeah Luke lolz). Everyone hade predator, R2 Astromech and IA. 9 dice rolled and 3 dice rerolled. 98 points gives me some hope on inititive, like having Soontir go first to see its barrel trollroll or I go first and try blocking.

The list I made is based on many matches I played and results from Tournaments. Yes you see T-65 on top 8 but rarely top 3 these days. The other ships however... never, accept Palob HWK (Palob as pilot is very very good - annoys A-Wing with stealing focus).

I'm wrong? Meh maybe, should have ejected... (Hint Porkins)

4. T-65 X-Wing...B-Wing has taken the T-65s roll.

Taken its...barrell roll?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I always enjoy the polite way you do it...

The top players often use unconventional lists that they have practiced.

Haha! Thanks. Love the GIF.

I do have a question about the top players using unconventional lists. Do you think so? I think they usually have slight variations of standard net lists, but they aren't really unconventional. Oh, there are some out there. I don't mean all of them, but I'm often bored with the repetition of the top tables.

I often find Paul Heaver and Nathan Eide are very creative. If not with the list it self, than with the use of the list.

You don't line the list? Well sorry.

You like to bash people for something you don't like? Well sorry.

I should fly more? Well yeah, that is what I'm trying. I play often T-65s but they are quite hard to win with, with all barrel roll and jumpmasters... Last time I won with 3 T-65 was against one player - a very veteran player - who had a Ghost, Attack Shuttle and 1 Y-Wing stressbot. Played with Wes, Wedge and Luke (Yeah Luke lolz). Everyone hade predator, R2 Astromech and IA. 9 dice rolled and 3 dice rerolled. 98 points gives me some hope on inititive, like having Soontir go first to see its barrel trollroll or I go first and try blocking.

The list I made is based on many matches I played and results from Tournaments. Yes you see T-65 on top 8 but rarely top 3 these days. The other ships however... never, accept Palob HWK (Palob as pilot is very very good - annoys A-Wing with stealing focus).

I'm wrong? Meh maybe, should have ejected... (Hint Porkins)

You don't line the list? Well sorry.

You like to bash people for something you don't like? Well sorry.

I should fly more? Well yeah, that is what I'm trying. I play often T-65s but they are quite hard to win with, with all barrel roll and jumpmasters... Last time I won with 3 T-65 was against one player - a very veteran player - who had a Ghost, Attack Shuttle and 1 Y-Wing stressbot. Played with Wes, Wedge and Luke (Yeah Luke lolz). Everyone hade predator, R2 Astromech and IA. 9 dice rolled and 3 dice rerolled. 98 points gives me some hope on inititive, like having Soontir go first to see its barrel trollroll or I go first and try blocking.

The list I made is based on many matches I played and results from Tournaments. Yes you see T-65 on top 8 but rarely top 3 these days. The other ships however... never, accept Palob HWK (Palob as pilot is very very good - annoys A-Wing with stealing focus).

I'm wrong? Meh maybe, should have ejected... (Hint Porkins)

Good topic. You got some conversation going. Disregard the know it alls who bash these kinds of topics for the sake of argument.

Here is my list, and includes only 4 ships that desperatly need help:

1 - M3a

2 - Kirahzz

3 - Punisher

4 - Imperial Firespray

&

I love Punisher (Redline, at least) and would always put that ahead of the Bomber in any list.

This. I kick so much butt with Redline lately. It's the most reliable way in the game to ensure 4 to 6 hits. How it's not used more baffles me. Admittedly, all the other Punishers are garbage, but Redline with FCS, GC, EM, Proton/Plasma Torps and Cluster Missiles is a 38/39 pts hellfire delivery system. Essentially the only pilot who's able to make Cluster Missiles work. I pair it with Whisper and Zeta Leader, end up being a very happy camper.

I run the same but without FCS. If all the pieces in the list it was most disposable. Where you have Zeta I run two Academy blockers and they really help to occupy and block people while Whisper and Redline dish the pain.

&

Not cool. [shakes head]

Here is my list, and includes only 4 ships that desperatly need help:

1 - M3a

2 - Kirahzz

3 - Punisher

4 - Imperial Firespray

Redline doesn't need any help. You help Redline, you risk to OP him. A second good pilot might help, but I for one wouldn't want to fly more than one Punisher. They shouldn't become the next u-boats.

Imperial Firespray should just be removed from the imperial roster, forget it ever existed.