Determination was more widely used before other 1 point upgrades cards came out. It used to be the go to for howl runner but now crack has more value for the same cost.

I think the key, as others have said, is that it takes the EPT slot, which is really valuable.

I ran it earlier this year on Han, because I was expecting to see other low PS ships and didn't want to lose my re-rolls. It turned out to be really good, but only because of a fluke. It cancelled the first crit I received. Then I got another crit that made all of my future damage cards be face up. This meant when I got three regular damage the next round they were all face up. Two of those were pilot ones, and the other gave me stress (or something like that). I wasn't going to be able to clean up the ship crits since I had so much stress I would not get any actions for the rest of the game. I think In total I cleared four crits this way. This kept me alive a bit longer than it should have.

But I have never seen a result like this since. It just doesn't happen enough since most crits are ship crits. So you can get really luck, or it can be completely worthless (which is more likely).

greedo would be good with determination on something....

I respectfully disagree with that conclusion because I can take predator and a shield upgrade but not predator and determination outside of awings. If we want an example of other options for that point cost vi, crackshot, wired, adaptability, and even rage are all always on and don't require a random occurrence to potentially trigger.

True, but you can take Determination and Engine Upgrade, but not Determination and Shield Upgrade.

...

Why cant you take Determination and Shield Upgrade?

He may mean to say you can't take Engine Upgrade and Shield Upgrade instead.

Which isn't entirely true but doing so on a TIE Interceptor is pretty much a complete waste.

Thanks. I am dumb, and as StevenO said, I meant to say Engine Upgrade and Shield Upgrade.

I use Determination + Salvaged Astromech on Dengar. I'm guaranteed to throw one crit in the trash and maybe a few more. It felt really good in one game vs Vader crew =).

I use Determination + Salvaged Astromech on Dengar. I'm guaranteed to throw one crit in the trash and maybe a few more. It felt really good in one game vs Vader crew =).

I haven't had the chance yet, but I've wanted to put that combo on Tel, with either Gonk or Greedo crew.

I was just going to say that it is a great option when paired with Salvaged Astros... Ninjas! I also like it on Palob, because he draws so much fire already that a defensive upgrade makes him a less appealing target. Plus, with a possible evade and stack of focus tokens he can modify his dice enough to filter out the hits and usually only suffers a couple damage per big shot.

I know determination is popular on high hull targets, but has anyone tried it on a 3AGI target? The high agility should help you dodge a few hits every attack, which means a higher proportion of crits as your suffered damage. I don't know who I would take it on though... Perhaps Vader, since his EPT slot isn't tied to PtL?

Out of curiosity, how come i have literally never seen anyone fly a ship with Determination EPT?

"When you are dealt a faceup damage card with the Pilot trait, discard it immediately without resolving its effect"

I never noticed it before but it says "discard it" not "ignore it" - unless this is another one of those "its not actually done the way the word describes" things, that means you dont even take the damage correct? Granted with TFO deck thats only 2 cards but for a 1pt ept thats pretty good, especially on ships like Xwings/T70s where most of the EPTs they could take are highly situational and more expensive anyway.

It's amazing on Bombers. It will be even more amazing once Gamma Vets arrive. For me especially, because Etan is a favorite at my store, especially in Epic play.

greedo would be good with determination on something....

I confirm. I run Palob / TLT+Greedo+Determination. It's a 28pts HWK, but he made a really decent job (critical card on TLT ...) and can handle a pair of torpedos.

I used to run it on a tanky Kenkirk and Palpatine bud, but I had so many battles where I either got no crits, or didn't get the pilot criteria that I've ended up just dropping it for predator for now. If there was a decent way to choose which crits you receive so you could therefore just discard it that would be cool.

It's amazing on Bombers. It will be even more amazing once Gamma Vets arrive.

Might be a good choice on Jonus if you are using him with the Tie-shuttle.

I've run it before and never drawn a crit it could discard, it's highly situational and random.

Determination is something you throw on Hand when you have a point spare but for some reason don't want to spend that on VI. It is also hugely situational.

Saying that, I have seen a HWK with Determination receive the major hull breach card (all damage dealt is face up) and then discard the next FOUR crits in a row. . .

There are better ways to spend 1 point (or more) on an EPT than Determination. I've tried it on multiple decimator builds, and it's never been worth it, honestly. If I haven't been using VI or something else (to get RAC to PS10, or Oicunn to PS6), then the point has been needed elsewhere (upgrading a prox mine to a connor net on Deathrain... the 60/40 RAC-PS9/DR list vs the 61/39 RAC-PS10/DR list is a real struggle w/ me...).

Decimators have a lot of hull, true, but Determination doesn't affect pilot damage cards that aren't drawn face up. So if you assume that the damage deck is ~25% pilot cards, and 25% of the damage delt (1/4 as implied above) is going to be critical hits, then Determination is going to nullify potentially 25% of 25%, or around 1/16 of the damage dealt after shields are gone. Even the mighty Decimator, with 12 hull, stands a decent chance of never being assigned that 1/16 probability of a face up pilot card, before its hull is gone. So unless you have a mechanic that lets you peek at crits before assigning them, it just isn't good.

One of my favorite builds for palob is ion turret + greedo + determination. I have had games where the greedo + determination combo actually led to palob taking less damage than if he was running no crew. Plus the look on your opponents face when you inform them that the ion cannon just caused a crit is priceless.

Yeah with the tie bombers i kinda feel obligated to put Deadeye on them. Then again that might change come wave9, very possible something in there completely eff's with deadeye users (removing focus tokens, preventing focus use, etc etc). Though i admit i am tempted to run Adrenalin Rush on Tomax so i can do some white 5K turns and drop mines in someones' face lol. Yeah im that kinda player where i'll sacrifice optimal play for something comical yet somewhat effective. Or just white 5K turns in general, since that removes the issue of "i didnt get the arc at the right range" with any ordnance (except uboats) users. A 5K is bound to put you at range2-3 unless you werent close to them to begin with.

It's amazing on Bombers. It will be even more amazing once Gamma Vets arrive.

The trouble with Bombers is that I would probably want to run mine with Deadeye to ensure they have a chance of targetting higher PS ships.

Might be a good choice on Jonus if you are using him with the Tie-shuttle.

Actually I was thinking Gamma Vet + LRS + Determination. How very Undertale of me.

But I have to say it has a seriously potent psychological effect on your opponent. Sure, hyper aces may dodge everything, but this was a real crit! That they actually managed to land! And then it just gets tossed off like so much ejected space piss. It's hilarious to watch their faces, especially since (in epic games) it seems to happen about 3 times per bomber (in my case).

I can confirm that Tel Trevura + Determination + Greedo + Salvaged Astromech + Punishing One + Hull Upgrade (49 pts) is really hard to kill. The problem is what to run beside it? Ideally it needs something to ensure shields are gone from whatever's left on the opposing squad so the crits can pile up. Boba works moderately well overall, and is great against aces but I need more offense I feel...Boba Fett + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster + 4-Lom + Inertial Dampeners + Engine (51 pts).

Next ideas:

Contracted Scout + Proton Torps + Extra Mun + Boba + R4 Agro + Deadeye + Guidance & Binayre Pirate + Feedback (49 pts)

2 Freelancers with FCS, one with Zuckuss as well (51 pts)

Moralo Eval + HLC + 4-LOM + Zuckuss + Dengar + Hot Shot Blaster (49 pts)

Bossk + Push the Limit + Mangler Cannon + 4-LOM + Gonk + Dengar + Hot Shot Blaster (51 pts)

I can confirm that Tel Trevura + Determination + Greedo + Salvaged Astromech + Punishing One + Hull Upgrade (49 pts) is really hard to kill. The problem is what to run beside it? Ideally it needs something to ensure shields are gone from whatever's left on the opposing squad so the crits can pile up.

How about N'Dru with Clusters, Lone Wolf, Chips and Glitterstim? Same PS as Tel so you can move and shoot in whatever order suits you best. Most targets should definitely be out of shields after 2 well-modified 4-dice attacks. And it still leaves you about 25 points to round out your list. TLT Palob perhaps?

There are better ways to spend 1 point (or more) on an EPT than Determination. I've tried it on multiple decimator builds, and it's never been worth it, honestly. If I haven't been using VI or something else (to get RAC to PS10, or Oicunn to PS6), then the point has been needed elsewhere (upgrading a prox mine to a connor net on Deathrain... the 60/40 RAC-PS9/DR list vs the 61/39 RAC-PS10/DR list is a real struggle w/ me...).

Decimators have a lot of hull, true, but Determination doesn't affect pilot damage cards that aren't drawn face up. So if you assume that the damage deck is ~25% pilot cards, and 25% of the damage delt (1/4 as implied above) is going to be critical hits, then Determination is going to nullify potentially 25% of 25%, or around 1/16 of the damage dealt after shields are gone. Even the mighty Decimator, with 12 hull, stands a decent chance of never being assigned that 1/16 probability of a face up pilot card, before its hull is gone. So unless you have a mechanic that lets you peek at crits before assigning them, it just isn't good.

While there's a decent chance of not being assigned a Pilot Crit, but there's a greater chance of receiving one. If you choose VI and the list you're going against doesn't have any ships in the PS range that you just jumped over, then VI is doing a lot less for you than Determination.

As for using the point on other ships, that is often a very good option. That said, there are often times when you're happy with your other ships and don't want to use that point on them. In that case, Determination is a good way to spend that point.

I can confirm that Tel Trevura + Determination + Greedo + Salvaged Astromech + Punishing One + Hull Upgrade (49 pts) is really hard to kill. The problem is what to run beside it? Ideally it needs something to ensure shields are gone from whatever's left on the opposing squad so the crits can pile up.

How about N'Dru with Clusters, Lone Wolf, Chips and Glitterstim? Same PS as Tel so you can move and shoot in whatever order suits you best. Most targets should definitely be out of shields after 2 well-modified 4-dice attacks. And it still leaves you about 25 points to round out your list. TLT Palob perhaps?

Tested this N'Dru last night and used a freelancer with dengar as the other 26 points. Worked pretty well I just need to figure out deployment a little better to have his ability & lone wolf kick in. Tel's large base made it tricky...I feel like he either needs to go super fast towards the other end of the board or hang back and play clean up.

I've played around with Chewie and Determination, can synergise well with R2-D2 crew. Tried it on Kenkirk too but it's a bit too situational for my liking.

While there's a decent chance of not being assigned a Pilot Crit, but there's a greater chance of receiving one. If you choose VI and the list you're going against doesn't have any ships in the PS range that you just jumped over, then VI is doing a lot less for you than Determination.

As for using the point on other ships, that is often a very good option. That said, there are often times when you're happy with your other ships and don't want to use that point on them. In that case, Determination is a good way to spend that point.

VI is also useful for adjusting pilot skill over that of your own ships too. Getting RAC to 10 means he moves after Whisper, Vader, and Soontir if you take one of them as a wingperson. Moving the ace first makes it easier to plan out a path of attack, and makes sure that there is plenty of room to maneuver with boosts and BRs to finalize alignment. If I end up bumping my own ace w/ RAC, then yeah, I lost that action, but I still get my Isard, my attack, and my vader tantrum, in addition to the needed actions from my ace. That makes VI on RAC incredibly valuable, especially given the fact that there's a 94% chance that I won't end up with a pilot based crit (excepting shenannegins such as mangler cannon, greedo, etc) as part of the 12 hull that I end up taking.

-edit-

and that's assuming that I take 12 hull on the decimator. My plan is to wipe my opponent off the table before I take 4 hull (1/2 MOV).

Aside from the previously mentioned Oicunn, Leebo, Tel and Palob, I've run an experiment once for s**** and giggles: Scum Boba with Autoblaster, Determination and Greedo. The look on their faces...oh, yeah...

Not something I'd recommend competitively, obviously. But hey, if you wanna have fun...

I've played around with Chewie and Determination

Interesting combo. What takes precedence when 2 cards both say "immediately"?