Out of curiosity, how come i have literally never seen anyone fly a ship with Determination EPT?

"When you are dealt a faceup damage card with the Pilot trait, discard it immediately without resolving its effect"

I never noticed it before but it says "discard it" not "ignore it" - unless this is another one of those "its not actually done the way the word describes" things, that means you dont even take the damage correct? Granted with TFO deck thats only 2 cards but for a 1pt ept thats pretty good, especially on ships like Xwings/T70s where most of the EPTs they could take are highly situational and more expensive anyway.

If you're paying for an EPT slot you want more than this.

I've seen it a lot on large based ships, I even run it on a decimator quite a bit with all the crit happy items out there: ATC on a TIE Advanced, Palp, and others... Chewie also likes it, not only does he not take crits anyway but you can discard them before you flip them facedown.

I think its about a third of your deck that you can essentially nullify with this.

Out of curiosity, how come i have literally never seen anyone fly a ship with Determination EPT?

"When you are dealt a faceup damage card with the Pilot trait, discard it immediately without resolving its effect"

I never noticed it before but it says "discard it" not "ignore it" - unless this is another one of those "its not actually done the way the word describes" things, that means you dont even take the damage correct? Granted with TFO deck thats only 2 cards but for a 1pt ept thats pretty good, especially on ships like Xwings/T70s where most of the EPTs they could take are highly situational and more expensive anyway.

Both damage decks have 8 cards with pilot critical hits.

Determination was used at different points of the meta (on some decimator builds, for example). At this very moment, the meta seems to circle around offense more than it is on defensive upgrades.

im one of those guys that keeps trying to run unorthodox lists: hell i ran a bumper-Han build a few days ago lol. Right now im trying to play Wedge as a highspeed jouster (R7-T1 and Kyle w/ Jan Ors nearby) and i was trying to find an EPT to put on him that wouldnt nullify the joust or add another action. I was going to just take Expert Handling anyway since being able to barrelroll even with a stress can save your can a lot, but then i noticed i misread Determination. Not exactly trying to put it on him (though better than nothing lol) but i just noticed ive never, ever seen that card used.

Determination was useful on key pilots with the old damage deck where Injured Pilot could ruin your day.

Try Leebo pilot with Determination. When he takes a crit, he can draw two and pick one. If one of them is a Pilot crit, he picks that one and discards it.

I've only seen it used on two ships: the Decimator and Leebo.

For the Deci, 12 hull means you have a pretty solid chance of drawing at least one or two pilot crits, which will allow it to pay for itself. If you discard even one of them, then it's basically a Shield Upgrade for you.

For Leebo, his pilot ability would allow you to have a higher than normal chance to see a pilot crit.

I used to put it on Kenkirk, with Palp and Ysanne as crew. When paired with the old damage deck, it basically gives you 10 cards that will do little to nothing against you (because LOL Munitions Failure). Even Minor Hull Breach won't do anything unless you also get tagged with a Damaged Engine.

Determination was useful on key pilots with the old damage deck where Injured Pilot could ruin your day.

This ^

IIRC Dallas Parker took a TIE swarm including Howlie with Determination to the 2013 worlds finals - and came within a single hull point of winning against the mighty Paul Heaver.

Also Leebomination

If you assume that 1/4th of the damage you take will be crits (not a purely true number but can be seen as roughly accurate) and then from there only 8/33 crits which are pilot type, so 24%. This means for your ept slot to be useful under these assumptions you should have at least 4 hull and then it works 24% of the time to save 1 damage. If we bump numbers to the best possible situation, aka every damage on hull is a critical, you still only have a 24% chance on each card to actually use determination. This means to ensure you hit it you'd have to take 4 crits which again means if you have less than 4 hull this card is statistically useless to you unless there's some math I'm missing real hard.

Also pilot crits in the new damage deck are not that bad.

Blinded pilot: bad but not insurmountable since it now clears on any opportunity to shoot

Damaged cockpit: typically bad for high ps arc dodgers who can't afford to take determination and meh for a lot of other pilots so minimally impactful

Stunned pilot: you don't usually want to be doing the bumping outside of a very few pilots. Blocking a ship won't trigger this so it's only a further punishment for what's usually bad flying.

Shaken pilot: this also is very situational for being impactful. Occasionally this makes your maneuvers bad but usually this card doesn't matter.

So you have a very low chance of triggering this card and when you do it's minimally impactful. Seems like a bad choice to equip in as good of a spot as an ept.

Aces with EPTs usually want something synergistic to justify the high-point cost. It'd be good on generics with high hull values if they got an EPT, but that leaves out Y-Wings and ARCs and Scouts want something else. Maybe on Gand Findsmen or Scum Firesprays; if it triggered once it'd be better than a hull upgrade, and you've got enough hull to chew through you might get rid of two.

I use Determination on Captain Oicunn, you can still get rid of a possible 7 crits using it. It has saved him more than once for another round or two of shooting and bumping into things.

So you have a very low chance of triggering this card and when you do it's minimally impactful. Seems like a bad choice to equip in as good of a spot as an ept.

I think you are underestimating the EPT. You ignore the whole damage card! Not just its effect. As someone else pointed out,it only needs to trigger once in a game to be worth the same as a 4 point shield upgrade.

I mean its obvious on things like Aces you wouldnt want this, PTL or Juke for Vader would be vaaaastly better since you'd just flatout dodge the shot anyway. But in the topic of ships that cant arcdodge or have high health...i could see it being useful.

Admittedly i usually put Intimidation on my Oicunn but often i'll have a game where he got dodged and cant turn around fast enough, so he turns into an unupgraded gunboat. Would keep him alive longer ideally.

edit: hmm...random thought about decimator... Expose... he's already at 0 agi **** so many good EPTs on that ratfink

You've never seen anyone use it because you haven't looked long enough.

It does have a few places it can be great and even life saving but it is in direct competition with a host of other EPT which probably have a much more consistent use. Something that is only half as useful but always gets used is generally better than something more useful but which only gets used a quarter of the time or less. A big problem Determination has is with that "how often it will get used" condition. Using it on an A-Wing that will only take two cards to destroy anyway is a bit crazy but having it on a Decimator which is likely to be dealt a few face-up cards makes it much more useful. The new damage deck does mellow out the DD a bit so Determination is less likely to stop a killer card but it does stop damage which can be good.

So you have a very low chance of triggering this card and when you do it's minimally impactful. Seems like a bad choice to equip in as good of a spot as an ept.

I think you are underestimating the EPT. You ignore the whole damage card! Not just its effect. As someone else pointed out,it only needs to trigger once in a game to be worth the same as a 4 point shield upgrade.

I respectfully disagree with that conclusion because I can take predator and a shield upgrade but not predator and determination outside of awings. If we want an example of other options for that point cost vi, crackshot, wired, adaptability, and even rage are all always on and don't require a random occurrence to potentially trigger.

If you're paying for an EPT slot you want more than this.

You're not always paying for the EPT slot though. Sometimes you're paying for PS or the pilot ability and get the EPT as a throw-in. In these cases, it's arguably one of the better EPTs for high-hull ships. It's cheap and as others have said, can potentially keep you alive another round.

If you're paying for an EPT slot you want more than this.

You're not always paying for the EPT slot though. Sometimes you're paying for PS or the pilot ability and get the EPT as a throw-in. In these cases, it's arguably one of the better EPTs for high-hull ships. It's cheap and as others have said, can potentially keep you alive another round.

this

Often i will slap on Adaptability for the lawls because there isnt an EPT that isnt a point-sink or counters what im trying to do.

Except for Expert Handling im usually against EPTs that add actions to pick from. Most of the time when i build a list im looking at the synergies or shenanigans with the pilot ability more than the card combo. Mods and EPTs sometimes get left in the dirt to me.

Thats why i like the 1pt cards that add just a little bit to the ship, so im not leaving empty slots or taking a card that doesnt work that well with what im doing (engine mod on oicunn...lol).

im still hoping they add more mods/epts that are 1pt. There are a few decent 1pt epts but most of them are ignorable.

And no, i dont have a mass of Crackshots to use. I dont have any for that matter, since i dont want to buy a scum ship for literally 1 card. Gonna have 2 when imp vets come out anyway and unless i wanna do crackswarm i'd never need more than 2 anyway.

I respectfully disagree with that conclusion because I can take predator and a shield upgrade but not predator and determination outside of awings. If we want an example of other options for that point cost vi, crackshot, wired, adaptability, and even rage are all always on and don't require a random occurrence to potentially trigger.

True, but you can take Determination and Engine Upgrade, but not Determination and Shield Upgrade.

It depends what you're flying and you're looking for. If you have a big ole Decimator and want a cheap bump to defense, Determination is the way to go. I'm not saying that those other 1 pt EPTs are bad, but merely that in some strategies they're better, in some they're worse.

Crackshot - It's great, but it's one use. Typically best in quantities on cheap ships.

VI / Adaptability - If it takes you higher than the popular meta lists, great! Otherwise, it's probably not doing a lot for and you'd get more use of of Determination than bumping a PS4 ship to PS6.

Wired - You have to have a ship that you're planning on being regularly stressed. Most high-hull ships that could use Determination avoid stress as they can't easily shred it.

Rage - Two stress is crippling and most high-hull ships that would use Determination can't easily shed that stress, meaning no actions for a while.

I respectfully disagree with that conclusion because I can take predator and a shield upgrade but not predator and determination outside of awings. If we want an example of other options for that point cost vi, crackshot, wired, adaptability, and even rage are all always on and don't require a random occurrence to potentially trigger.

True, but you can take Determination and Engine Upgrade, but not Determination and Shield Upgrade.

It depends what you're flying and you're looking for. If you have a big ole Decimator and want a cheap bump to defense, Determination is the way to go. I'm not saying that those other 1 pt EPTs are bad, but merely that in some strategies they're better, in some they're worse.

Crackshot - It's great, but it's one use. Typically best in quantities on cheap ships.

VI / Adaptability - If it takes you higher than the popular meta lists, great! Otherwise, it's probably not doing a lot for and you'd get more use of of Determination than bumping a PS4 ship to PS6.

Wired - You have to have a ship that you're planning on being regularly stressed. Most high-hull ships that could use Determination avoid stress as they can't easily shred it.

Rage - Two stress is crippling and most high-hull ships that would use Determination can't easily shed that stress, meaning no actions for a while.

Why cant you take Determination and Shield Upgrade?

It is used in Epic play on Jonus. You don't want your Raider rerolls to be nullfied by a bad crit.

At some point it was also used on Howlrunner in a swarm because her ability was too important for the swarm.

I use it with Oicunn when I don't want to pay for daredevil + engine upgrade

(and even then I prefer to pay for Vader and rebel captive)

I respectfully disagree with that conclusion because I can take predator and a shield upgrade but not predator and determination outside of awings. If we want an example of other options for that point cost vi, crackshot, wired, adaptability, and even rage are all always on and don't require a random occurrence to potentially trigger.

True, but you can take Determination and Engine Upgrade, but not Determination and Shield Upgrade.

...

Why cant you take Determination and Shield Upgrade?

He may mean to say you can't take Engine Upgrade and Shield Upgrade instead.

Which isn't entirely true but doing so on a TIE Interceptor is pretty much a complete waste.

Technically you cant do it on them either. I mean, Engine Upgrade doesnt prevent you from buying it for any reason but...they have boost already lol.

Speaking of which i always felt that should do something. LIke "You may use the 2straight or 2bank" if you buy it with a ship that has it already.

Make some ships really **** quick.

Technically you cant do it on them either. I mean, Engine Upgrade doesnt prevent you from buying it for any reason but...they have boost already lol.

Speaking of which i always felt that should do something. LIke "You may use the 2straight or 2bank" if you buy it with a ship that has it already.

Make some ships really **** quick.

Assume you mean you can't add Engine and Shield Upgrades to a TIE Interceptor. You CAN but I happened to leave out the Royal Guard title out of the equation which would allow two different modifications to be added.

It would be interesting to see if Engine Upgrade would get used on a Boost enabled ship if it allowed the use of speed 2 straight/back when Boosting. As it stands having Boost, or any action really, on the action bar twice doesn't do anything for a ship.