Honestly, I rarely see the meta kings in our casual games. People are usually trying out new things or flying things they think would be fun.

+1

One of the reasons I like playing with you.

-Cal

Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. It re-invented the game for me and my friends.

Games like this will always inevitably drift towards netlisting and power builds. Especially a game like this with so few options and so few models where the effect of point expenditure is magnified.

I'd say you're wrong 146% on that, because here we have so GODDAMN LOTS OF OPTIONS, it's sometimes a pain

I take it you're new to gaming, lol. Because X-Wing's army list combinations are ridiculously low. It might seem like a lot to you, but compared to say, 40K, it's nothing. Especially given how poor a lot of the options are in combination, and how many ship-exclusive cards there are, which narrow down the choices significantly. Either that, or you're just not really looking at how many options other games have by comparison. Which is why you see the same lists, and minor variations thereof, dominating the roll calls at every tournament.

Regardless, it's a game with 13-14 ships per faction, and 3-5 ships played per game, so no, there aren't a lot of options in a competitive environment. Especially since each faction has at least 2-3 ships that almost never see use, or only have a single properly costed, points-efficient pilot card.

I mean, if you want to just calculate every possible permutation, X-Wing could theoretically add up to what seems like a lot of options, but the reality is most of them are pointless because that combination would never be used unless somebody just randomly drew upgrade cards before matches. But still, when you realize a Tactical squad can have anywhere from 5-10 models, chooses between 1-2 special and heavy weapons and 5-6 options between those classes, can sport sergeants or veteran sergeants with any combination of almost a dozen close combat weapons or combi-weapons, four different types of deployment/transport, one of seven different Chapter Tactics, and then the fact that those 5-10 models might only be a tenth of your army list's total cost, rather than as much as 1/3-1/2 and you have twenty-something other options to pick from, with often the same number of variations... That Tactical Squad has 62 Billion different possible tabletop permutations, lol.

Every game is paper rock scissors for me the last month or so. I play 10+ games a week so I can't really narrow it down to one thing.

I do get what you are saying. I've been there before. Everyone gets in tournament mode and the variety of lists really dwindles down. It starts to get very rock/paper/scissor -esque in the game. So...it's not that you can't win games, but the fun of the game has dried up. It is a longer version of rock/paper/scissor. You like the game...but your latest games just aren't fun.

Now, this might not be the case in every local area. I know it has happened in my area before. It's the end of Regionals season and everyone has been practicing the hardest lists since the beginning of the year. There is a lot of burn out at this time.

You don't have to quit the game, though. Take a step back and try a different type of X-wing. There are a lot of ways to play the game beyond the tournament format. Or....try the same 100 pts, but refuse to play tournament hard lists. Find some people and play some B-list games. You know, those pilots and ships you never see in tournaments? Why not fly them against someone else with a similar list? Or....the random squad generator. Find some other players that want to try something different. Just....play something other than tournament hard core lists.

I've started a podcast on Casual X-wing because I don't think enough people consider it. Everyone gets caught up in tournament mode and forgets about other ways to play the game. There is Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. There is epic games. There is B-list games for fun. There are 150 pt games. There are the Missions to try. There are 3 player games to attempt. Remember that whole article a couple weeks ago about Flying Casual? Trying something different can help make the game fun again. Not only that, but it might even help you in building a new crazy list that no one has seen before and works in the tournament meta.

Just today Episode 7 is out and it's about finding other people for Casual games and growing the casual scene.

This is not an anti-tournament post. I'm just saying that there are ways to play the game beyond hard tournament lists. Many people have fun with these types of games. Many people play tournaments and Casual games. After the past few months of hard tournament play, who don't you try some other ways to play the game? I've found it really helps me enjoy the game more.

also helps to paint ships you want to use so you have an excuse to put them on the table

example, I love T-70s even if they're simply not viable. So I gotta go the extra mile to getting them on the table and feeling good about it

true there are a lot of options... in raw form only. In reality each ship only has a handful of cards they can even get any benefit out of, not just take at all.

I find this issue with Mod slots alot. Imperials its easy, stealth device or mk2 engines 90% of the time. Rebels....i find myself leaving that slot open a LOT because the only mods in there are crazy expensive and dont help rebels all too much or dont do jack for rebels. Engine Upgrade is basically the only one i ever look at and i tend to stay away from it because that gets expensive if you put that on more than 1 ship. And majority of the astromech slots really feel underwhelming to me. Way too many of them have an odd restriction or insanely situational.

Ever play a Random List Generator game with someone? Use one of the many list building apps where you put in your collection. Hit RANDOM LIST GENERATOR and it spits out a list for you to fly. It is utterly not optimal, but if you both are doing it, you probably won't get crushed. I've found this to be a real hoot as you have to figure out a strategy with all the crap you have been given. It's a lot of fun.

Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. It re-invented the game for me and my friends.Games like this will always inevitably drift towards netlisting and power builds. Especially a game like this with so few options and so few models where the effect of point expenditure is magnified.

I'd say you're wrong 146% on that, because here we have so GODDAMN LOTS OF OPTIONS, it's sometimes a pain

I take it you're new to gaming, lol. Because X-Wing's army list combinations are ridiculously low. It might seem like a lot to you, but compared to say, 40K, it's nothing. Especially given how poor a lot of the options are in combination, and how many ship-exclusive cards there are, which narrow down the choices significantly. Either that, or you're just not really looking at how many options other games have by comparison. Which is why you see the same lists, and minor variations thereof, dominating the roll calls at every tournament. Regardless, it's a game with 13-14 ships per faction, and 3-5 ships played per game, so no, there aren't a lot of options in a competitive environment. Especially since each faction has at least 2-3 ships that almost never see use, or only have a single properly costed, points-efficient pilot card. I mean, if you want to just calculate every possible permutation, X-Wing could theoretically add up to what seems like a lot of options, but the reality is most of them are pointless because that combination would never be used unless somebody just randomly drew upgrade cards before matches. But still, when you realize a Tactical squad can have anywhere from 5-10 models, chooses between 1-2 special and heavy weapons and 5-6 options between those classes, can sport sergeants or veteran sergeants with any combination of almost a dozen close combat weapons or combi-weapons, four different types of deployment/transport, one of seven different Chapter Tactics, and then the fact that those 5-10 models might only be a tenth of your army list's total cost, rather than as much as 1/3-1/2 and you have twenty-something other options to pick from, with often the same number of variations... That Tactical Squad has 62 Billion different possible tabletop permutations, lol.

Sometimes local areas don't see all the variety that makes it onto the top tables of tournaments. There is a Guri, Misthunter, Palob list that made 7 at Tatooine, but that doesn't mean people in that local area actually fly that.

I think the OP is saying that the game is a bit stale in his neck of the woods. I do agree that there are a lot of viable options these days. Does that mean people are taking them? Not really. Not what I see locally. Just because there are viable lists doesn't mean people are actually flying them.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like x wing has had more toxic metas than good ones. I got in towards the end of wave 3, right after the spectre of tie swarm was waning and diversity reigned. Then we got the tie phantom, ushering in a counter it or bust meta that eventually lead to the ship being nerfed. This pushed us into the fat turret meta, which again was so caustic that a rework of scoring was necessary. Wave 7 with and without force awakens content came and that was glorious, you could run just about anything and while people complained about quad tlt it was very beatable even with lists that did not make additional accommodations to prepare for it. Now we're in the u boat and palp ace meta, and we're going further down the rabit hole with the next release. Don't get me wrong, i still enjoy this game and i love playing at a high level because of the awesome people you meet along the way, but it is a concerning observation.

Odd, I beat the 'Flavor of the Month' more by varying my initial approach and utilizing hectic/fast resets beyond Range 3 moreso than math-winging some Counter-List.

Fly Different! The game can still be won on the table and not the spreadsheet.

My main problem is how we're Wave after Wave of new stuff when there's so much old stuff that needs tweaking/redoing/Aces-Veterans-ing.

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

But we get Heroes of the Resistance, with PS9 Poe and some TFA stuff. I guess they'd be stupid not to release TFA stuff, but it kinda sucks how they've pushed back love for the classics to get it out ASAP.

Same with Wave 9. Woo, we get the SF Tie and stuff, but how long has this set back Rebel Veterans and Scum Aces? That's the question I always ask myself whenever I see something new announced.

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

X-wing has always been in a funny place and I think this is a problem for any miniatures game especially one with the restrictiveness of the Star Wars Franchise, although it is still expanding, lets face it is just shrunk a lot after Episode 7.

Some of the newer players, and by newer I mean Wave 6 and beyond may be discouraged by seeing ships they don't recognize on the tables. I mean anyone can point an X-wing and the Imperials but what is this Scum faction and I never even seen all these large ships in the Movies, what happened to the Millennium Falcon? This can also drive off some new players who want to play with the iconic ships from the Movie but struggle as the current Meta doesn't include say Swarms of TIEs and a cadre of elite X-wing pilots.

Then there is the old competitive players who will find if new releases were not added the meta will go stale so they want new ships but not just any ship. I mean you can't add the Viper from Battlestar Galactica without upsetting not only fans of both franchise but the IP owners as well. Each ship has to be Star Wars even if it is from an obscure source like a horrible 80's cartoon that most forgot because it wasn't the worst of the franchise.

So we are going to see a meta that isn't familiar with Star Wars fans from time to time. Now with the release of new movies we might see some new ships (hopefully more than just another X-wing and straight winged TIE Fighter) and these new movies will bring new ship with a distinct Star Wars feel to the meta. Until then, try to think of Star Wars as the history being retold or rewritten by which happens to be the new victors and maybe see some hidden and forgotten histories such as the Moldy Crow or the Prototypes of TIE Fighters.

Even there, it depends on the faction. Scum is basically made up of ships that aren't familiar to casual fans, outside of Slave-1. But the Rebel meta right now still features a lot of A-Wings, Ghosts (as seen on that popular new show!) and the occasional X-Wing and Y-Wing list. And the Imperial meta is still dominated by Interceptors, the TIE Advanced, the TIE Fighter (new and old), the Lambda Shuttle, and the TIE from Rebels.

My main problem is how we're Wave after Wave of new stuff when there's so much old stuff that needs tweaking/redoing/Aces-Veterans-ing.

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

But we get Heroes of the Resistance, with PS9 Poe and some TFA stuff. I guess they'd be stupid not to release TFA stuff, but it kinda sucks how they've pushed back love for the classics to get it out ASAP.

Same with Wave 9. Woo, we get the SF Tie and stuff, but how long has this set back Rebel Veterans and Scum Aces? That's the question I always ask myself whenever I see something new announced.

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

Not all of their fixes come in the form of Aces packs. Sometimes, they simply come in the form of upgrades. In the case of Heroes of the Resistance and Wave 9, we have X-Wing/E-Wing/Y-Wing love coming in the form of two new astromechs. It's possible that Fearless (another Scum-only EPT) may also be good on the Scyk or Khiraxz. We even have love for the lowly Outer Rim Smuggler, which will be gaining access to Illicit upgrades.

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

...

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

The T-65 got Integrated Astromech. Yes, I know people won't be happy until they get a Boost or Barrel Roll added in. Still, you can't say they got nothing.

Kihraxz and Scyk got Attani Mindlink. They are much better with those EPTs.

The T-65 is only not viable for high level tournament play. The only way to bring them in is to basically make them as broken as the other stuff at the top tables.

wedge actually isn't the worst P.o.S at the moment

he's still squish and if you fly him like a typical ace you're going to get stomped, but as a glass cannon he's had very decent success locally

with Jan Ors (hwk) rolling around, he's a goddamn terror

My main problem is how we're Wave after Wave of new stuff when there's so much old stuff that needs tweaking/redoing/Aces-Veterans-ing.

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

But we get Heroes of the Resistance, with PS9 Poe and some TFA stuff. I guess they'd be stupid not to release TFA stuff, but it kinda sucks how they've pushed back love for the classics to get it out ASAP.

Same with Wave 9. Woo, we get the SF Tie and stuff, but how long has this set back Rebel Veterans and Scum Aces? That's the question I always ask myself whenever I see something new announced.

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

The YT-1300 and T-70 actually could use a fix right now though. Neither is showing up often in tournaments at the moment.

And outside the T-65, there ain't a ship more classic than the Millennium Falcon.

Well, in a sense, they both are. The HotR expansion is on the way, with new pilots and cards for both. They may not be direct "add this card, get huge" buffs, but as long as the pilots have some decent abilities, they may yet be the boost the Rebels needed.

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

...

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

The T-65 got Integrated Astromech. Yes, I know people won't be happy until they get a Boost or Barrel Roll added in. Still, you can't say they got nothing.

Kihraxz and Scyk got Attani Mindlink. They are much better with those EPTs.

The T-65 is only not viable for high level tournament play. The only way to bring them in is to basically make them as broken as the other stuff at the top tables.

Plus, the T-65s are actually still showing up in Top 8s. We just saw a Biggs/Wes/Corran squad go undefeated in Utah. That's part of why you can't simply Title either of those ships into broader viability. Those pilots are already very competitive. Any further buff to the ship needs to be done in a way that will keep them from becoming monsters.

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

...

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

The T-65 got Integrated Astromech. Yes, I know people won't be happy until they get a Boost or Barrel Roll added in. Still, you can't say they got nothing.

Kihraxz and Scyk got Attani Mindlink. They are much better with those EPTs.

The T-65 is only not viable for high level tournament play. The only way to bring them in is to basically make them as broken as the other stuff at the top tables.

Plus, the T-65s are actually still showing up in Top 8s. We just saw a Biggs/Wes/Corran squad go undefeated in Utah. That's part of why you can't simply Title either of those ships into broader viability. Those pilots are already very competitive. Any further buff to the ship needs to be done in a way that will keep them from becoming monsters.

It made one top 8 at one regional.

I still fly my Kath Boba list regularly. The current meta has given me some issues from time to time, I still have fun with the list and win more than I lose, even against palp aces and u boats.

I'd recommend working REALLY hard to figure out how to make Paper beat Scissors. That might bring some spice to the game for ya!

Just play a bunch of solo games and see how close you can get!

Personally, I'm still at a loss as to how paper beats rock. I mean, sure, the rock is covered, but it's still just as massive and heavy, and can do just as much damage.

I'd recommend working REALLY hard to figure out how to make Paper beat Scissors. That might bring some spice to the game for ya!

Just play a bunch of solo games and see how close you can get!

Personally, I'm still at a loss as to how paper beats rock. I mean, sure, the rock is covered, but it's still just as massive and heavy, and can do just as much damage.

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>> Theme

I'd recommend working REALLY hard to figure out how to make Paper beat Scissors. That might bring some spice to the game for ya!

Just play a bunch of solo games and see how close you can get!

Personally, I'm still at a loss as to how paper beats rock. I mean, sure, the rock is covered, but it's still just as massive and heavy, and can do just as much damage.

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>> Theme

Well played, sir!

Meta is not killing anyone! Just whole lot of fuzz around it, group hysteria!

Clear your meta and stay clam!

After all this time, the T-65, E-Wing, Khiraxz, Starviper and Scyk still haven't even had their Veterans or Aces packs announced.

...

The fact is, we have a Star Wars dogfighting game where Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antillies are bad choices for a Rebel list. And that's a travesty in my opinion.

The T-65 got Integrated Astromech. Yes, I know people won't be happy until they get a Boost or Barrel Roll added in. Still, you can't say they got nothing.

Kihraxz and Scyk got Attani Mindlink. They are much better with those EPTs.

The T-65 is only not viable for high level tournament play. The only way to bring them in is to basically make them as broken as the other stuff at the top tables.

Plus, the T-65s are actually still showing up in Top 8s. We just saw a Biggs/Wes/Corran squad go undefeated in Utah. That's part of why you can't simply Title either of those ships into broader viability. Those pilots are already very competitive. Any further buff to the ship needs to be done in a way that will keep them from becoming monsters.

It made one top 8 at one regional.

Correction: It won two regionals.