But I actually currently prefer my weird N'dru, Manaroo and Guri list, with Manaroo getting bumped up with R5-P8, Gonk and, extravagantly enough, punishing one.

What I like best about these lists is that you can feel the potential of Manaroo Mindlink, with action economy through the roof. It's like hunting for buried treasure

I used to run Punishing One on Manaroo mindlinked with Kath Scarlet. It was surprisingly consistent damage. And I agree, the potential for Mindlink is huge. And its just going to keep getting better with each new wave.

My guri mindlink list has been:

Manaroo - Mindlink, Rec Spec

Guri - Mindlink, Virago, Autothrusters, FCS, Cloaking Device,

Drea - R4-b11, TLT

So far it's worked great, right up until guri starts rolling all blank greens on me. Think that's the only way she's died in a couple of my lists. She really needs a freaking evade token...

That is basically the one thing that keeps Guri down. With RecSpec you can give Guri 5 focus? That's nuts. Probably overkill, but pretty insane.

+1 die is nowhere near as good as xizor's ability. It's green and the evade only price once. Lastly you're at range 1, not a great place to get shot from

Anyway just back from testing xizor with jumpies. Don't think I could miss z95s any less

The extent of just he's much better they are in literally every respect is astounding (for one, the one packing 4lom won't autoloss to whisper late game)

+1 die AND Fang title, however...

Is still nowhere near as good

Look even with ptl, you have to fly perfectly to end up at range 1 with full mods. **** up and you just get a focus

Assuming you don't spend the focus on the attack you're up one die on xizor for one attack, after which the decade's gone and youre left with sh*tty naked green dice

Just because he's 9 and has thrusters doesn't mean he's fel reincarnated

Fenn is replacing one pilot and it ain't xizor not even close (it's cobra)

All of which is why you arcdodge. The ability and title are there for when you cant get out of arc. And as lomg as he has a good dial, he's the closest thing in the game to fel without actually using fel. And he's not replacing cobra. To do that people would have to have actually been USING cobra. Ive seen the starviper (though not xizor outside of my own play mostly) WAY more than talonbane. Though since its looking like my talonbane in the viper (and hopefully viper fix) is gonna be a thing in the custom card

League...

If the Fang gets an awesome dial at the points so far guessed/revealed than it looks like FFG more or less finally invalidates M3A and the Viper, and seriously devalves Khiraxes and Z95; if those do not get some push in the future. Not at all amusing for the ones owning these ships.

there is no reason to punish the poor fang for having to come after some appallingly underpowered ships

although the closest thing to fel without actually using fel is Jake "Fel"ral. Fenn can't double down on post maneuver movements and still have a modifier on top of it

Why all this talk about just Guri and Xixor? The Black Sun Enforcer is where it's at for me! Two of these guys (with Autothrusters) comes in at 54 points. This gives you 46 points to add a third heavy hitter. My favorite list brings in two such BSEs and Kath.

The BSEs escort Kath and dictate where the fight will happen by moving first and taking away options for the opponent. After that, the BSEs remain blockers/flankers as Kath gets shot after shot from her (extra red die) rear gun. The opponent tends to be in even more trouble if they go after the BSEs first, as this leaves Kath unscathed.

Not a Firespray fan? No problem! And big ship works in this list. Moving last becomes a disadvantage against this list when flown right.

I've had a friend play generic ones before and liked them a lot. I haven't tried it, but that's mostly to me having a family life and not enough time to play all the crazy stuff I want to.

People have been flying Guri with Attani Mindlink and a few other ships with the same to good effect. I think that's a combo that's starting to take off.

.

This is something I'm very interested in. I've been playing nothing but Attanni Mindlink lists since wave 9, but I've yet to give Guri a shot, which is odd, since she's one of my favorite pilots.

Guri with just Mindlink is just 31 points, with Manaroo, you can give her 2/3 focus a turn + a TL (3 focus is not necessarily overkill, considering she's often the target of multiple shots). At that cost, she seems reasonably priced. The trouble is finding what to accompany them with. Do you have any ideas or know of any lists people have been using?

I used Guri, Palob and Kavil in a mindlink list at a tourney last weekend. Both Guri and Palob can trigger mindlink independently of actions (although it's fairly situational). Had FCS on Guri for free TL's and focus via mindlink so she can boost/barrel roll until her robotic heart is content.

Not a Firespray fan? No problem!

I beg to differ! Not a Firespray fan? Bugger off!

But I actually currently prefer my weird N'dru, Manaroo and Guri list, with Manaroo getting bumped up with R5-P8, Gonk and, extravagantly enough, punishing one.

What I like best about these lists is that you can feel the potential of Manaroo Mindlink, with action economy through the roof. It's like hunting for buried treasure

I used to run Punishing One on Manaroo mindlinked with Kath Scarlet. It was surprisingly consistent damage. And I agree, the potential for Mindlink is huge. And its just going to keep getting better with each new wave.

My guri mindlink list has been:

Manaroo - Mindlink, Rec Spec

Guri - Mindlink, Virago, Autothrusters, FCS, Cloaking Device,

Drea - R4-b11, TLT

So far it's worked great, right up until guri starts rolling all blank greens on me. Think that's the only way she's died in a couple of my lists. She really needs a freaking evade token...

That is basically the one thing that keeps Guri down. With RecSpec you can give Guri 5 focus? That's nuts. Probably overkill, but pretty insane.

Yah, she doesn't usually GET 5, but she can. 1 from mindlink, 2 from manaroo's ability (if drea doesn't need them), 1 from her own ability if she's at range 1, and 1 from her own action if hse focuses (which she generally doesn't since she...doesn't need to).

there is no reason to punish the poor fang for having to come after some appallingly underpowered ships

although the closest thing to fel without actually using fel is Jake "Fel"ral. Fenn can't double down on post maneuver movements and still have a modifier on top of it

I would disagree. Sure, jake can double reposition and sitll have a focus, but then he's still stuck with a 2 attack primary. At range 1, he gets 3 dice. With a focus token, that averages 2.25 damage. Fenn at range 1 has 5 dice, which averages 2.5 damage without a focus. At longer range, jake with focus averages 1.5 hits on 2 dice with a focus, fenn averages 1.5 damage on 3 dice without a focus. So IF you have to double reposition, you're going to do the same damage on average as jake anyway, so i'd rather have the one that's going to hit harder when he DOES have a focus and/or TL.

The only real 'advantage' jake would normally have is prockets, except fenn rau ALWAYS does 5 dice at range 1, so he wins there too. And you can give himi APT if you really want to and have an almost guaranteed 6 hits.

But I actually currently prefer my weird N'dru, Manaroo and Guri list, with Manaroo getting bumped up with R5-P8, Gonk and, extravagantly enough, punishing one.

What I like best about these lists is that you can feel the potential of Manaroo Mindlink, with action economy through the roof. It's like hunting for buried treasure

I used to run Punishing One on Manaroo mindlinked with Kath Scarlet. It was surprisingly consistent damage. And I agree, the potential for Mindlink is huge. And its just going to keep getting better with each new wave.

My guri mindlink list has been:

Manaroo - Mindlink, Rec Spec

Guri - Mindlink, Virago, Autothrusters, FCS, Cloaking Device,

Drea - R4-b11, TLT

So far it's worked great, right up until guri starts rolling all blank greens on me. Think that's the only way she's died in a couple of my lists. She really needs a freaking evade token...

That is basically the one thing that keeps Guri down. With RecSpec you can give Guri 5 focus? That's nuts. Probably overkill, but pretty insane.

Yah, she doesn't usually GET 5, but she can. 1 from mindlink, 2 from manaroo's ability (if drea doesn't need them), 1 from her own ability if she's at range 1, and 1 from her own action if hse focuses (which she generally doesn't since she...doesn't need to).

there is no reason to punish the poor fang for having to come after some appallingly underpowered ships

although the closest thing to fel without actually using fel is Jake "Fel"ral. Fenn can't double down on post maneuver movements and still have a modifier on top of it

I would disagree. Sure, jake can double reposition and sitll have a focus, but then he's still stuck with a 2 attack primary. At range 1, he gets 3 dice. With a focus token, that averages 2.25 damage. Fenn at range 1 has 5 dice, which averages 2.5 damage without a focus. At longer range, jake with focus averages 1.5 hits on 2 dice with a focus, fenn averages 1.5 damage on 3 dice without a focus. So IF you have to double reposition, you're going to do the same damage on average as jake anyway, so i'd rather have the one that's going to hit harder when he DOES have a focus and/or TL.

The only real 'advantage' jake would normally have is prockets, except fenn rau ALWAYS does 5 dice at range 1, so he wins there too. And you can give himi APT if you really want to and have an almost guaranteed 6 hits.

The dufference: calculation on Jake, as he focusses anyways!

The dufference: calculation on Jake, as he focusses anyways!

And now he either doesn't have PTL or he's only PS7

Yah, she doesn't usually GET 5, but she can. 1 from mindlink, 2 from manaroo's ability (if drea doesn't need them), 1 from her own ability if she's at range 1, and 1 from her own action if hse focuses (which she generally doesn't since she...doesn't need to).

there is no reason to punish the poor fang for having to come after some appallingly underpowered ships

although the closest thing to fel without actually using fel is Jake "Fel"ral. Fenn can't double down on post maneuver movements and still have a modifier on top of it

I would disagree. Sure, jake can double reposition and sitll have a focus, but then he's still stuck with a 2 attack primary. At range 1, he gets 3 dice. With a focus token, that averages 2.25 damage. Fenn at range 1 has 5 dice, which averages 2.5 damage without a focus. At longer range, jake with focus averages 1.5 hits on 2 dice with a focus, fenn averages 1.5 damage on 3 dice without a focus. So IF you have to double reposition, you're going to do the same damage on average as jake anyway, so i'd rather have the one that's going to hit harder when he DOES have a focus and/or TL.

The only real 'advantage' jake would normally have is prockets, except fenn rau ALWAYS does 5 dice at range 1, so he wins there too. And you can give himi APT if you really want to and have an almost guaranteed 6 hits.

focus is also defensive against any one attack, which will probably eat fenn alive

and you don't want APT on Fenn. It does nothing without both a TL AND focus except waste 6 points

I'm not expecting the second coming of fel on this guy. With an interceptor dial, he will be fairly decent. Without, he'll be basically useless and we'll have to cross our fingers for mighty PS 5 crackshots

so until then, and probably even afterwards, more Xizor!

playing him yesterday really served to remind me how little he needs to act like a typical ace. He spent most every game just slow rolling (not literally b-rolling) and firing off fully modified dice without a care in the world. He's a mean jouster while his ability is up, which isn't something any ace can typical boast about (most aces can't even 1-foward or 1-bank!).

The dufference: calculation on Jake, as he focusses anyways!

And now he either doesn't have PTL or he's only PS7

With his pilot ability he does not necessarily need PTL. Then you even have the 0 point test pilot title, if you want to put VI in there.

Yah, she doesn't usually GET 5, but she can. 1 from mindlink, 2 from manaroo's ability (if drea doesn't need them), 1 from her own ability if she's at range 1, and 1 from her own action if hse focuses (which she generally doesn't since she...doesn't need to).

there is no reason to punish the poor fang for having to come after some appallingly underpowered ships

although the closest thing to fel without actually using fel is Jake "Fel"ral. Fenn can't double down on post maneuver movements and still have a modifier on top of it

I would disagree. Sure, jake can double reposition and sitll have a focus, but then he's still stuck with a 2 attack primary. At range 1, he gets 3 dice. With a focus token, that averages 2.25 damage. Fenn at range 1 has 5 dice, which averages 2.5 damage without a focus. At longer range, jake with focus averages 1.5 hits on 2 dice with a focus, fenn averages 1.5 damage on 3 dice without a focus. So IF you have to double reposition, you're going to do the same damage on average as jake anyway, so i'd rather have the one that's going to hit harder when he DOES have a focus and/or TL.

The only real 'advantage' jake would normally have is prockets, except fenn rau ALWAYS does 5 dice at range 1, so he wins there too. And you can give himi APT if you really want to and have an almost guaranteed 6 hits.

focus is also defensive against any one attack, which will probably eat fenn alive

and you don't want APT on Fenn. It does nothing without both a TL AND focus except waste 6 points

I'm not excepting the second coming of fel on this guy. With an interceptor dial, he will be fairly decent. Without, he'll be basically useless and we'll have to cross our fingers for mighty PS 5 crackshots

If you spent both of your actions to reposition, and thus don't have a focus token, you'll either be out of arc, or else you'll be at range 1 (preferably out of arc). if you're at range 1, you get an extra agility and a free evade result to help make up for the lack of focus token. If you can't arrange one of those 2 conditions, you just..don't double reposition and spend one of your actions on a focus token. Depending on the enemy ship in quesiton, you may be better off just doing that instead of getting into range 1 as well.

I do agree that APT is generally a waste on fenn, but he's at least a bteter carrier than anyone else. With ptl he can get focus/tl if he has a target at range 1 (or you could pair him with manaroo and get modifiers AND be able to reposition). If you have the free points, why not? (I could do it in my dengar/fen list if I wanted and still be at 98 points, but decided to go flechette torpedoes on both and be at 96 instead).

The dufference: calculation on Jake, as he focusses anyways!

And now he either doesn't have PTL or he's only PS7

With his pilot ability he does not necessarily need PTL. Then you even have the 0 point test pilot title, if you want to put VI in there.

If you want to compare him to Soontir (which is the comparison taht was being made) you need PTL, otherwise you don't have the double repositioning or the triple action efficiency. You also need VI for said comparison

talkin bout PS5 Fang Fighter

Hoping they're 23 like the blacksun ace but then that's still pretty overpriced (26 crack thrusters). Hopefully ffg parks them correctly at 22

That doesn't bode well

So 22-point PS5 Fang would be correct for old meta.

Current state of affairs is mega-attacks all day long: U-boat, Whisper, Ghost, Zuckuss, TLT

Best point of reference is PS4 Saber Interceptor (21-points) It's non-existent in the meta

So PS5 Fang Fighters at 20 or 21 points would be good ships. Anything more than that would be tier 2.

I wonder if anyone has tried a Serissu + Starviper swarm.

talkin bout PS5 Fang Fighter

Hoping they're 23 like the blacksun ace but then that's still pretty overpriced (26 crack thrusters). Hopefully ffg parks them correctly at 22

That doesn't bode well

So 22-point PS5 Fang would be correct for old meta.

Current state of affairs is mega-attacks all day long: U-boat, Whisper, Ghost, Zuckuss, TLT

Best point of reference is PS4 Saber Interceptor (21-points) It's non-existent in the meta

So PS5 Fang Fighters at 20 or 21 points would be good ships. Anything more than that would be tier 2.

I wonder if anyone has tried a Serissu + Starviper swarm.

There's not a chance in hell of 20-21 points for the PS5. That's right where I expect the PS3 to show up.

But I actually currently prefer my weird N'dru, Manaroo and Guri list, with Manaroo getting bumped up with R5-P8, Gonk and, extravagantly enough, punishing one.

What I like best about these lists is that you can feel the potential of Manaroo Mindlink, with action economy through the roof. It's like hunting for buried treasure

I used to run Punishing One on Manaroo mindlinked with Kath Scarlet. It was surprisingly consistent damage. And I agree, the potential for Mindlink is huge. And its just going to keep getting better with each new wave.

My guri mindlink list has been:

Manaroo - Mindlink, Rec Spec

Guri - Mindlink, Virago, Autothrusters, FCS, Cloaking Device,

Drea - R4-b11, TLT

So far it's worked great, right up until guri starts rolling all blank greens on me. Think that's the only way she's died in a couple of my lists. She really needs a freaking evade token...

That is basically the one thing that keeps Guri down. With RecSpec you can give Guri 5 focus? That's nuts. Probably overkill, but pretty insane.

Yah, she doesn't usually GET 5, but she can. 1 from mindlink, 2 from manaroo's ability (if drea doesn't need them), 1 from her own ability if she's at range 1, and 1 from her own action if hse focuses (which she generally doesn't since she...doesn't need to).

there is no reason to punish the poor fang for having to come after some appallingly underpowered ships

although the closest thing to fel without actually using fel is Jake "Fel"ral. Fenn can't double down on post maneuver movements and still have a modifier on top of it

I would disagree. Sure, jake can double reposition and sitll have a focus, but then he's still stuck with a 2 attack primary. At range 1, he gets 3 dice. With a focus token, that averages 2.25 damage. Fenn at range 1 has 5 dice, which averages 2.5 damage without a focus. At longer range, jake with focus averages 1.5 hits on 2 dice with a focus, fenn averages 1.5 damage on 3 dice without a focus. So IF you have to double reposition, you're going to do the same damage on average as jake anyway, so i'd rather have the one that's going to hit harder when he DOES have a focus and/or TL.

The only real 'advantage' jake would normally have is prockets, except fenn rau ALWAYS does 5 dice at range 1, so he wins there too. And you can give himi APT if you really want to and have an almost guaranteed 6 hits.

get into r1 and you win

if not, you're dead meat. equal to fel pre-aces, with no evade action to token up, and an ability that works with IF clause, and doesn't work when you have 2+ foes.

sure thing...

(...)

If you want to compare him to Soontir (which is the comparison taht was being made) you need PTL, otherwise you don't have the double repositioning or the triple action efficiency. You also need VI for said comparison

Yes, there you're right, if PTL Soontir is the comparison point.

That is the MOST godawful Phantom repaint I have ever seen. Whoever did that... you're awesome. I love it.

I would disagree. Sure, jake can double reposition and sitll have a focus, but then he's still stuck with a 2 attack primary. At range 1, he gets 3 dice. With a focus token, that averages 2.25 damage. Fenn at range 1 has 5 dice, which averages 2.5 damage without a focus. At longer range, jake with focus averages 1.5 hits on 2 dice with a focus, fenn averages 1.5 damage on 3 dice without a focus. So IF you have to double reposition, you're going to do the same damage on average as jake anyway, so i'd rather have the one that's going to hit harder when he DOES have a focus and/or TL.

The only real 'advantage' jake would normally have is prockets, except fenn rau ALWAYS does 5 dice at range 1, so he wins there too. And you can give himi APT if you really want to and have an almost guaranteed 6 hits.

get into r1 and you win

if not, you're dead meat. equal to fel pre-aces, with no evade action to token up, and an ability that works with IF clause, and doesn't work when you have 2+ foes.

sure thing...

Fenn's ability works just fine against multiple opponents (at range 1) and title works against multiple opponents (in arc).

And how often do you end up in range 2 of an opponent on a PS9 arc-dodger without the ability to get into range 3 (for autothrusters) or range 1 (for ability/title) or out of arc?

I'm not saying he's better than fel, but I absolutely think he's better than jake.

21 points on the PS 5 fang would be straight power creep on the Saber Squadron

on the other hand, how viable is the Saber squadron? (not very, let me tell you )

best I can say is the Fang's copying the interceptor's price scheme +1, and that's only because of a direct comparison of Fenn to Soonts, which leaves an optimistic 22 for the PS 5

aka 25 points of crackshot thrusters

bit steep there at 4 hp, but the only standard of comparison I have there is either the greenie (20 points, but down a red die) or the Red Veteran with TA and crackshot (29 points, nearly double health with integrated astro but -1 agi and no thrusters). Sure does trash the poor naked PS 1 blacksun enforcer

I would like it to be cheaper, but it's certainly more cost efficient than the poor blacksun ace if nothing else . If the dial is balls out crazy (ie, FO with t-rolls instead of s-loops) I think I'd still fly a pair

That is the MOST godawful Phantom repaint I have ever seen. Whoever did that... you're awesome. I love it.

21 points on the PS 5 fang would be straight power creep on the Saber Squadron

on the other hand, how viable is the Saber squadron? (not very, let me tell you )

best I can say is the Fang's copying the interceptor's price scheme +1, and that's only because of a direct comparison of Fenn to Soonts, which leaves an optimistic 22 for the PS 5

aka 25 points of crackshot thrusters

bit steep there at 4 hp, but the only standard of comparison I have there is either the greenie (20 points, but down a red die) or the Red Veteran with TA and crackshot (29 points, nearly double health with integrated astro but -1 agi and no thrusters). Sure does trash the poor naked PS 1 blacksun enforcer

I would like it to be cheaper, but it's certainly more cost efficient than the poor blacksun ace if nothing else . If the dial is balls out crazy (ie, FO with t-rolls instead of s-loops) I think I'd still fly a pair

Compared to the Saber it'd probably be 23 points (+1 for being a fang fighter, +1 for PS), but compared to the royal guard pilot it could be 22 (-1 for PS, +1 for fang fighter). I'd love 22, but don't really expect it.

I think the hardest part is balancing low PS generics and higher ps both. If the PS1 comes in at 19 points, the PS5 would come down out to 23-24 points just based on PS and EPT (with the PS3 at 21), but 24 points is pushing it for the PS5 to actually be useful. If you push it down to 22, you may never see the PS3. Again, assuming PS1 is at 19, if PS5 is at 22, PS3 has to be 20 or 21. If the PS3 is 21 ad the PS5 is 22, the only reason you EVER might take the ps3 is if you simply can not find the 1 point to get 2 more PS and an EPT. The PS1 still has use as a blocker at least.

you probably won't see the ps 3 anyway

crackshot is just such stupid good value, and I doubt the 3 will have if while the 5 exists

you probably won't see the ps 3 anyway

crackshot is just such stupid good value, and I doubt the 3 will have if while the 5 exists

Actually, I think there's a decent chance the PS3 generic WILL have an ept.

you probably won't see the ps 3 anyway

crackshot is just such stupid good value, and I doubt the 3 will have if while the 5 exists

Actually, I think there's a decent chance the PS3 generic WILL have an ept.

but whyyyy?

tie fighters and interceptors don't until their 4s tie/sf also doesn't seem to have one until the PS 5 (you can barely see the icon overlapped by backdraft) but they don't have a ps 1

I dont expect the ps3 to have an ept. PS5s with ept slot is pretty standard for Scum at this point