Has anyone tried running Xizor with DTF Bumpscouts? it seems like a great way to get an autothruster ace through the Wolfpack's torpedos intact, and against aces you've got two anti pursuit, two feedback arrays and a PS9 ace.

two bumpsters is a bit excessive and will leave you wanting against every other matchup

as an alternative

37 point PS 9 Xizor

Jumpmaster

*deadeye

*r4

*g-chips

*plasmas

*extras

*4-lom

[34]

Bumpmaster

*adaptability (bump the jumps!)

*int agent

*feedback

[28]

99 total, or 100 for protons

I like the StarViper but you just don't get much bang for your buck. A loaded Guri is around 40 points and since she wants to be up close, runs the risk of melting quite quickly. Now look at what else you can get for those 40 points, a loaded Contracted Scout, a loaded Party Bus. . . a cheap Aggressor. . a fully loaded G1A ! When you compare it to those, it just doesn't seem viable.

That being said, Guri with Crackshot, AT and Adv. Sensors is fun. Adv.Sensors to target lock, slam into a ship to deny it a shot and then gain a focus at the beginning of the combat phase. Range 1, focus/target lock and crack shot into a Jumpmaster.

I will consider the Viper fixed when it gets a free title that provides it an evade token when doing X. Originally I wanted it to be when ever you target locked (TIE Adv. Title) but that would pretty much shoe horn Xizor into a VI - Title - FCS - AT build.

You need a Defender style fix I reckon and a card that fits into the torp slot like, Proton Thrusters - When you perform a barrel roll or boost action, assign an evade token. Cannot be equipped to a ship with 2 or less agility.

Then you can have your mass production model title: -2 points, lose the torp slot. Cannot equip any modification that costs 3 or more points.

I made a two-fold fix for the StarViper for the custom card league. First is basically the same as the defender x7 title: -2 points and gain an evade token when doing a 1-2 speed maneuver (torp slot). Second was Talonbane Cobra as a Viper pilot (33 points, same ability from kihraxz)

Its not an overly amazing ship

I think this sums it up best. It's not OP. The only things that make it to the top tables at tournaments are pretty much things that can be abused. It's not abuse-able. It's simply a good ship.

I don't understand the comment about having no high PS pilot, as Xizor with VI is PS 9. He's not flown like an arc dodger and that confuses people. They are used to just arc dodgers. He's a jouster in the middle of a swarm that's good.

Xizor get to PS9 with 1 action and some particular ship can have 9 and 3 actions.

Lousy dial, lousy greens, overal costly, guri has BIGGZ-LEVEL Ps5

no Xizor also gets 3 "Actions"

1. normal action
2. FCS target-lock
3. better than evade

two of those are action independent, meaning he cares FAR less about stress or bumping

If you're talknig about his ability for #3, it's not better than an evade. It relies on having someone else at range 1, and still results in someone taking damage. An evade token has neither requirement. If that's NOT what you're talknig about, I have no idea what his "better than evade" is. And even his 2 actions with a normal action and FCS is far inferior to soontir being able to boost and barrel roll and still get a focus token. VI Xizor is limited to picking boost OR barrel roll if he wants to reposition (so he can't arcdodge as well) and then he has no focus for defense, only a target lock on whoever he shot last.

Don't get me wrong, I love xizor and the starviper is my favorite ship for all that it's not truly competitive, but it definitely needs some help to get to where it can be truly good. I've been flying a dengar/xizor list lately to good effect, but as long s the fang fighter dial isn't terrible, xizor's getting dropped for fenn rau ASAP.

again, xizor's ability is better than evade in every scenario apart from TLT

not only is it action independent, it's round independent (as in more than one use) and all it requires is a bare minimum of competent flying

as for someone else taking damage, who cares? you're not dead; that's really all that matters

more often than not, though, Xizor's ability translates into completely invulnerability because he's basically never the right target while his ability is up. if that isn't better than an evade token, nothing is

finally, soontir is soontir; there is no other. Xizor is not soontir and soontir is not Xizor. Soontir flying in formation is ******, soontir bumped is ******; Xizor doesn't care. If you're looking for Soontir, you fly Soontir; you don't try to make a poor substitute out of a ship that simply isn't an interceptor

while the viper is overpriced, that isn't what's holding it back nearly as much as faulty perceptions of what it is capable of (or what Xizor needs in order to abuse his ability)

What's DTF?

again, xizor's ability is better than evade in every scenario apart from TLT

not only is it action independent, it's round independent (as in more than one use) and all it requires is a bare minimum of competent flying[/quo

as for someone else taking damage, who cares? you're not dead; that's really all that matters

It's different from evade, better or worse is dependant on scenario. Besides TLT, it's also worse against ion and flechette cannons (or turret for ion), anything in general that does a damage and cancels hits, worse if you don't have any allies at range 1 (whether they're too far away or he's the last ship remaining), etc. It's better if you're taking multiple shots and it triggers multiple times to prevent him from taking some damage. And it *might* be better if it means they just shoot someone else isntead. It keeps him alive, but by nature if he's triggering it (or they shoot the other easier target instead), it just means the rest of your list is taking damage instead. That makes it easier for xizor to make it to the end game, but means the rest of your list is dying (when taking no damage would be better).

And if xizor DOES make it to the end-game, his ability is now nothing but wasted points (or if other ships are too far away for whatever reason).

more often than not, though, Xizor's ability translates into completely invulnerability because he's basically never the right target while his ability is up. if that isn't better than an evade token, nothing is

finally, soontir is soontir; there is no other. Xizor is not soontir and soontir is not Xizor. Soontir flying in formation is ******, soontir bumped is ******; Xizor doesn't care. If you're looking for Soontir, you fly Soontir; you don't try to make a poor substitute out of a ship that simply isn't an interceptor

while the viper is overpriced, that isn't what's holding it back nearly as much as faulty perceptions of what it is capable of (or what Xizor needs in order to abuse his ability)

I know xizor isn't soontir or vice versa. But since Xizor generally gets VId up to PS9, it's still a comparison people are going to make. I know as much as or more than anyone how xizor flies, I've used him (and the viper in general) more than anyone I know, I've been flying them since they were released. Even with his ability, if the opponent has multiple shots and decides to focus on him, he can still die pretty easily. Being overpriced (alongside lower PS and situational abilities) are absolutely what are holding back the StarViper.

Compare Xizor to Fenn Rau. Same actions, same attack and agility, xizor has 1 more health, fenn has 2 more PS, both (by default) have nothing but the EPT and torpedo upgrades. And Fenn is 3 points cheaper. 2PS is ~2 points normally, say 2 points for 1 shield? means going just by the pilot cards, they should be about the same price.

And I would argue fenn has a better ability. It's not reliant on any other ships in your list, gives him harder hitting attacks at range 1, more defense at range 1 (and with title, he gets a free evade as well). Xizor can take a system slot for FCS for action efficiency or sensor jammer for defense, but Fenn's ability already gives him a defense boost over xizor (at range 1, and title if in arc), and he can take PTL (assuming a good dial. and if ffg doesn't give us green turns they might have a riot on their hands...) to get the same action efficiency as xizor with FCS.

Fenn comes out to at least 3-4 points cheaper than a cheap xizor build (ptl/autothrusters/title is 34 on fenn, xizor is 37 with vi, autothrusters, title, fcs. More if you go into sensor jammer or predator or something). I'm hard-pressed to find a reason why I would take xizor over fenn currently. Even in a jousting list (typically xizor with at least 1 high-health/shields ship to soak for him, + whatever else), fenn's probably a better buy than xizor. He's still cheaper, still hits harder, and still has good defenses at range 1 (where you can probbaly arrange to be with PS9 and native boost). And he's a way better closer.

Xizor is far tankier than fenn and his ability is far easier to control and has far more applications. Fenn is scary at range 1 but outside it his ability does nothing

Not to mention fennll be DOA without an interceptor caliber dial. Four health no evade (sans super situational title) and no xizor ability makes for a squishy ship. Without a ton of greens facilitating soontiresque dodging you just won't see him.

Xizor meanwhile doesn't need to arcdodge untiL hes alone. Unless you're taking all the torpscouts shots, his ability is just that good

Edit

Forgot to mention that tlts are far less common and ion/flech nonexistent

No tieD won't bring them back; x7 is far more reliable

What is common? Crackswarm. That punches through evades; not xizor

Problem with xizor is it's easy to overvalue fodder

As long as you're not passing crits to a hwk or another viper, it really doesn't matter who your meat shield is. Either xizor is taking damage better than they would or he's not getting shot at all

YVs, Ys and jm5ks all make fine sponges while being far more impactful than Z's, generally.

Yea, the few times lately I played Xizor, I did better with 1 naked JM for +1 pts vs 2 Zs

Has anyone tried running Xizor with DTF Bumpscouts? it seems like a great way to get an autothruster ace through the Wolfpack's torpedos intact, and against aces you've got two anti pursuit, two feedback arrays and a PS9 ace.

Yeah, I took Xizor, Guri and a bump to a store championship. Didn't roll a single APL all day! I did okay with it, two wins and two really close losses. I'd definitely take feedback over APL next time, that's all I'll say

My new Starviper jam is bargain basement Guri: just Attani Mindlink & Autothrusters for 33pts.

Run alongside Manaroo, Guri gets a lot more reliable, and should be sitting on two focus a round, even with a boost often enough. She can contribute as a focuser/blocker, close the deal with tl & 2 focus, or tank with a pile of focus at range three.

I think she's in the top tier for Mindlink users! Xizor unfortunately not so much, as he vamps off of his fellow ships, when Attani is all about keeping your ships alive and contributing for as long as possible.

How would you advise making the most of Guri? She wants to get in close but is only PS5, and however much you say it's not an arc dodger if you're at range one of your enemies you always want to try and get out of their arc (and five health isn't amazing, even if it is behind 3 greens), which again is hard at PS5.

The key to flying any Fighter well is to control where the fight happens. Typically, fighters want to move first to get into a space before the enemy can. The enemy also know that lower PS fighter is going to move first and will have to decide where to move based off of this. Control the board and force your opponent to choose between bad options. (Move this way, get blocked. That way, get shot at by 2 or 3 ships. Run and be out of position for a round or two... etc...)

Guri excels at this because "risking it" to squeezing into a spot might mean triggering her power!

What's DTF?

Draw Their Fire.

Man after having fenn compared to xizor I'm actually more worried for the fang now

Working down from 28, we're looking at a 24 point PS 5. This is LEAGUES better than the enforcer, but the enforcer is a crappy ship and the PS 5 is 27 after crack thrusters; 28 w/title

Hoping they're 23 like the blacksun ace but then that's still pretty overpriced (26 crack thrusters). Hopefully ffg parks them correctly at 22

That doesn't bode well

The Starviper is a great ship that is over priced.

The dial + action bar make it very maneuverable. It is fairly tough with 5 HPs and 3 agility. The system slot access is partly what makes Guri and Xizor strong.

Guri can block higher PS ships and still get a focus for any shots she may take. If she has PS advantage she can dance around lower PS ships and wreck them. Xizor, with some escort, is a pain to deal with. He will usually be one of the last ships on the board and if you can eliminate other late game threats to him before hand he can clean up nicely.

The Viper is one of my favorite ships, but it will break you heart. You need to invest a lot of points in the ship and even more for support in Xizor's case. It is tough to earn back the points spent.

I really need to put mine back on the table.

What's DTF?

Draw Their Fire

What's DTF?

Draw Their Fire

The intent being to make proton scouts useless against xizor, by rolling 3 evades, diverting the proton crit with DTF, and diverting a second hit/crit with xizor's ability.

Once the protons are spent, Xizor is an autothruster ace vs their turret- only a matter of time.

Unless there is a last minute upset, there will be two SV pilots in the custom card league: Talonbane Cobra and Savan (Xizor's niece apparently).

Has anyone tried running Xizor with DTF Bumpscouts? it seems like a great way to get an autothruster ace through the Wolfpack's torpedos intact, and against aces you've got two anti pursuit, two feedback arrays and a PS9 ace.

Yeah, I took Xizor, Guri and a bump to a store championship. Didn't roll a single APL all day! I did okay with it, two wins and two really close losses. I'd definitely take feedback over APL next time, that's all I'll say

My new Starviper jam is bargain basement Guri: just Attani Mindlink & Autothrusters for 33pts.

Run alongside Manaroo, Guri gets a lot more reliable, and should be sitting on two focus a round, even with a boost often enough. She can contribute as a focuser/blocker, close the deal with tl & 2 focus, or tank with a pile of focus at range three.

I think she's in the top tier for Mindlink users! Xizor unfortunately not so much, as he vamps off of his fellow ships, when Attani is all about keeping your ships alive and contributing for as long as possible.

Do you run the Mindlink/K4/Unhinged Astromech Manaroo alongside Guri? I've considered flying this:

Zuckus: 31

Mindlink

4-LOM

Mist Hunter/Tractor Beam

Guri: 33

Mindlink

Autothrusters

Manaroo: 32

Mindlink

K4 Security Droid

Unhinged Astromech

Leaves 4 points to put Advanced Sensors on Guri, Cloaking Device on Zuckuss or Feedback/APL's on Manaroo.

I'd be curious to know what you're flying alongside Guri and Manaroo. Zuckuss is the best I could come up with.

I've run it with Palob, both tlt and blaster/mouldy crow.

But I actually currently prefer my weird N'dru, Manaroo and Guri list, with Manaroo getting bumped up with R5-P8, Gonk and, extravagantly enough, punishing one.

Guri maneuvers & N'dru takes a focus, or Guri focuses while N'dru TL's for the clusters, while Manaroo gonks and gives her focus to whomever's most likely to receive fire this round, and gains the focus for doing so. In a pinch I slam guri in to range one to give the team focus, normally because they're all stressed and can't shed this turn.

N'dru will get double focus for his 4-dice clusters, but normally shortly dies thereafter. Guri tends to be next to go down, even with all her focus. But now you're left with a great pwt with 3 gonks in the bank and R5 to threaten any remaining aces...

What I like best about these lists is that you can feel the potential of Manaroo Mindlink, with action economy through the roof. It's like hunting for buried treasure

Xizor is far tankier than fenn and his ability is far easier to control and has far more applications. Fenn is scary at range 1 but outside it his ability does nothing

Not to mention fennll be DOA without an interceptor caliber dial. Four health no evade (sans super situational title) and no xizor ability makes for a squishy ship. Without a ton of greens facilitating soontiresque dodging you just won't see him.

Xizor meanwhile doesn't need to arcdodge untiL hes alone. Unless you're taking all the torpscouts shots, his ability is just that good

Edit

Forgot to mention that tlts are far less common and ion/flech nonexistent

No tieD won't bring them back; x7 is far more reliable

What is common? Crackswarm. That punches through evades; not xizor

Fenn's easy isn't that hard to control when you're a PS9 with (potentially) PTL. At range 1, it's as good as or better than Xizor's on defense, AND gives you an offense boost. You move last, and you can boost into range 1 if needed to get your ability to trigger. And that's assuming you plan to joust. I'll absolutely be arc-dodging with fenn, and not getting shot > xizor's ability. And once again, Fenn Rau's ability can be useful all game. Xizor's stops being useful as soon as he's alone or his allies get out of range for any reason. As for the dial, I already said this is all conditional on the dial being good and having green turns.

As for crack swarm, as long as you're in range 1, fenn is still better. +1 evade result (which cancels 1 more hit than you would have otherwise) from the title > passing 1 uncancelled hit to an ally. And that's ignoring Fenn's agility bonus.

Man after having fenn compared to xizor I'm actually more worried for the fang now

Working down from 28, we're looking at a 24 point PS 5. This is LEAGUES better than the enforcer, but the enforcer is a crappy ship and the PS 5 is 27 after crack thrusters; 28 w/title

Hoping they're 23 like the blacksun ace but then that's still pretty overpriced (26 crack thrusters). Hopefully ffg parks them correctly at 22

That doesn't bode well

I'm HOPING for the PS1 to come in at 19 points (PS9 - 8 pts for PS and 1 pt for ability/ept). It also works out when compared to the TIE Interceptor: Fenn is 1pt more than soontir, and the PS1 alpha is 18 points, so 1pt more puts you at 19. I'm afraid they'll end up maknig it 20 to prevent 5 with the title and give us another overcosted scum generic ship. That would then put the PS3 at 21 points, and the PS5 at 23-24 (theoretically with an EPT) (if they made the PS1 20 points, you'd be looking at 22 for PS3 and 24-25 for PS5).

Has anyone tried running Xizor with DTF Bumpscouts? it seems like a great way to get an autothruster ace through the Wolfpack's torpedos intact, and against aces you've got two anti pursuit, two feedback arrays and a PS9 ace.

Yeah, I took Xizor, Guri and a bump to a store championship. Didn't roll a single APL all day! I did okay with it, two wins and two really close losses. I'd definitely take feedback over APL next time, that's all I'll say

My new Starviper jam is bargain basement Guri: just Attani Mindlink & Autothrusters for 33pts.

Run alongside Manaroo, Guri gets a lot more reliable, and should be sitting on two focus a round, even with a boost often enough. She can contribute as a focuser/blocker, close the deal with tl & 2 focus, or tank with a pile of focus at range three.

I think she's in the top tier for Mindlink users! Xizor unfortunately not so much, as he vamps off of his fellow ships, when Attani is all about keeping your ships alive and contributing for as long as possible.

Do you run the Mindlink/K4/Unhinged Astromech Manaroo alongside Guri? I've considered flying this:

Zuckus: 31

Mindlink

4-LOM

Mist Hunter/Tractor Beam

Guri: 33

Mindlink

Autothrusters

Manaroo: 32

Mindlink

K4 Security Droid

Unhinged Astromech

Leaves 4 points to put Advanced Sensors on Guri, Cloaking Device on Zuckuss or Feedback/APL's on Manaroo.

I'd be curious to know what you're flying alongside Guri and Manaroo. Zuckuss is the best I could come up with.

My guri mindlink list has been:

Manaroo - Mindlink, Rec Spec

Guri - Mindlink, Virago, Autothrusters, FCS, Cloaking Device,

Drea - R4-b11, TLT

So far it's worked great, right up until guri starts rolling all blank greens on me. Think that's the only way she's died in a couple of my lists. She really needs a freaking evade token...

+1 die is nowhere near as good as xizor's ability. It's green and the evade only price once. Lastly you're at range 1, not a great place to get shot from

Anyway just back from testing xizor with jumpies. Don't think I could miss z95s any less

The extent of just how much better they are in literally every respect is astounding (for one, the one packing 4lom won't autoloss to whisper late game)

+1 die is nowhere near as good as xizor's ability. It's green and the evade only price once. Lastly you're at range 1, not a great place to get shot from

Anyway just back from testing xizor with jumpies. Don't think I could miss z95s any less

The extent of just how much better they are in literally every respect is astounding (for one, the one packing 4lom won't autoloss to whisper late game)

+1 die AND Fang title, however...

+1 die is nowhere near as good as xizor's ability. It's green and the evade only price once. Lastly you're at range 1, not a great place to get shot from

Anyway just back from testing xizor with jumpies. Don't think I could miss z95s any less

The extent of just he's much better they are in literally every respect is astounding (for one, the one packing 4lom won't autoloss to whisper late game)

+1 die AND Fang title, however...

Look even with ptl, you have to fly perfectly to end up at range 1 with full mods. **** up and you just get a focus

Assuming you don't spend the focus on the attack you're up one die on xizor for one attack, after which the decade's gone and youre left with sh*tty naked green dice

Just because he's 9 and has thrusters doesn't mean he's fel reincarnated

Fenn is replacing one pilot and it ain't xizor not even close (it's cobra)

It seems to be a good choice for a cloaking device, on top of autothrusters it'd be pretty hard to kill at range 3 while cloaked.

+1 die is nowhere near as good as xizor's ability. It's green and the evade only price once. Lastly you're at range 1, not a great place to get shot from

Anyway just back from testing xizor with jumpies. Don't think I could miss z95s any less

The extent of just he's much better they are in literally every respect is astounding (for one, the one packing 4lom won't autoloss to whisper late game)

+1 die AND Fang title, however...

Is still nowhere near as good

Look even with ptl, you have to fly perfectly to end up at range 1 with full mods. **** up and you just get a focus

Assuming you don't spend the focus on the attack you're up one die on xizor for one attack, after which the decade's gone and youre left with sh*tty naked green dice

Just because he's 9 and has thrusters doesn't mean he's fel reincarnated

Fenn is replacing one pilot and it ain't xizor not even close (it's cobra)

All of which is why you arcdodge. The ability and title are there for when you cant get out of arc. And as lomg as he has a good dial, he's the closest thing in the game to fel without actually using fel. And he's not replacing cobra. To do that people would have to have actually been USING cobra. Ive seen the starviper (though not xizor outside of my own play mostly) WAY more than talonbane. Though since its looking like my talonbane in the viper (and hopefully viper fix) is gonna be a thing in the custom card

League...

All this talk of Guri and Xixor and no talk of Waldo.