Ship itself isn't an issue. And Guri & Xizor are both excellently defensive ships who can have that emphasised even further if you want.

Problem is, they're still a 3-die gun, and the generics cost 5 points more than a Kithraxz for all of 1 more agility, while the aces are better value yet easily creep towards costing 40 points. That's just a little too much, for not quite enough dakka nor acewing (ie PS and repositioning actions) to make 'em worthwhile. I'm honestly not sure how to fix them, but I hope it's with a firepower enhancement, so their price and toughness becomes justified. And Xizor's ability becomes valued, simply for keeping the omg-kill-it-now ship alive that much longer.

This. Once you considering equipping something useful on Guri or Xizor it really gets too expensive, starting already at quite high costs.

A glittering Khiraxz packs a lot punch, too, and does'nt hurt that much pointwise if it is killed.

I really like the starviper but I'll be the first to say its overpriced.

IMOHO, a big part of the disappointment is that it's an "Elite" $20 small ship that isn't as good as the more basic $15 smmall ships (TIE Punisher has the same problem).

Paying a 30% premium for mediocrity tends to leave a bad taste in player's mouths.

I think people were hoping for something meta-defining from the Starviper. But Autothrusters has really been the only thing in the expansion that has made a big splash... the ship itself is largely ignored.

Like a lot of other clunker ships, the Starviper has been kind of "Dead on Arrival" for high end play and could really use a fix (like the A-wing, Defender, and TIE Advance have gotten) to make it what it should have been in the first place.

That 30% premium is basically the price to pay for Autothrusters.

I like the StarViper but you just don't get much bang for your buck. A loaded Guri is around 40 points and since she wants to be up close, runs the risk of melting quite quickly. Now look at what else you can get for those 40 points, a loaded Contracted Scout, a loaded Party Bus. . . a cheap Aggressor. . a fully loaded G1A ! When you compare it to those, it just doesn't seem viable.

That being said, Guri with Crackshot, AT and Adv. Sensors is fun. Adv.Sensors to target lock, slam into a ship to deny it a shot and then gain a focus at the beginning of the combat phase. Range 1, focus/target lock and crack shot into a Jumpmaster.

I will consider the Viper fixed when it gets a free title that provides it an evade token when doing X. Originally I wanted it to be when ever you target locked (TIE Adv. Title) but that would pretty much shoe horn Xizor into a VI - Title - FCS - AT build.

You need a Defender style fix I reckon and a card that fits into the torp slot like, Proton Thrusters - When you perform a barrel roll or boost action, assign an evade token. Cannot be equipped to a ship with 2 or less agility.

Then you can have your mass production model title: -2 points, lose the torp slot. Cannot equip any modification that costs 3 or more points.

Honestly i'd like to see something that made the sloops white.

Maybe, I don't know. I've played Guri and she's way too situational for a 40-42 point ship.

Its not an overly amazing ship

I think this sums it up best. It's not OP. The only things that make it to the top tables at tournaments are pretty much things that can be abused. It's not abuse-able. It's simply a good ship.

I don't understand the comment about having no high PS pilot, as Xizor with VI is PS 9. He's not flown like an arc dodger and that confuses people. They are used to just arc dodgers. He's a jouster in the middle of a swarm that's good.

Xizor get to PS9 with 1 action and some particular ship can have 9 and 3 actions.

Lousy dial, lousy greens, overal costly, guri has BIGGZ-LEVEL Ps5

I like the StarViper but you just don't get much bang for your buck. A loaded Guri is around 40 points and since she wants to be up close, runs the risk of melting quite quickly. Now look at what else you can get for those 40 points, a loaded Contracted Scout, a loaded Party Bus. . . a cheap Aggressor. . a fully loaded G1A ! When you compare it to those, it just doesn't seem viable.

That being said, Guri with Crackshot, AT and Adv. Sensors is fun. Adv.Sensors to target lock, slam into a ship to deny it a shot and then gain a focus at the beginning of the combat phase. Range 1, focus/target lock and crack shot into a Jumpmaster.

I will consider the Viper fixed when it gets a free title that provides it an evade token when doing X. Originally I wanted it to be when ever you target locked (TIE Adv. Title) but that would pretty much shoe horn Xizor into a VI - Title - FCS - AT build.

You need a Defender style fix I reckon and a card that fits into the torp slot like, Proton Thrusters - When you perform a barrel roll or boost action, assign an evade token. Cannot be equipped to a ship with 2 or less agility.

Then you can have your mass production model title: -2 points, lose the torp slot. Cannot equip any modification that costs 3 or more points.

Defense would help. Sure. But I'd rather they had a reason to be scary, more than simply unappealing to kill.

Guri with Sensor Jammer and Auto Includes is pretty nice. I would call that defensive. Her ability with Attani Mindlink is pretty nice for the whole list.

She can't be that bad if someone made #7 at Tatooine. Personally, I think people just don't give off lists much of a chance before they give up on them. It takes practice to get good with any list.

I recently purchased the Starviper (for the **** ATs), but it's one of the few S&V ships that i like...

I tried to use it last weekend on a short casual game we play ( 2 vs 2, one ship, 36pts ) but i didn't work out a good one with Guri, since my first idea was to use it as an PTL arc dodger...

Which build do you recomend for a single 36p ship?

Does anyone feel like sharing why it is SO rare to see a Starviper around.

Because they're so ugly!

The Starviper is not a PTL arc dodger. I think that's what really gets some people. It's not meant to be flown that way.

36 pts? Ugh....I wish it were 38. The perfect Guri build is Attani Mindlink, Auto Includes, Virago, and Sensor Jammers. That's 2 pts too many. If I had to drop 2 pts...I'd drop Sensor Jammer and go with FCS. Well, either that or drop Attani Mindlink, too, and go with Advanced Sensors.

I wonder how Xizor would do if his escort was a higher PS? That way he could deal with U-boats better. Hmm...they are PS 3, as well, which would mean they can't kill a U-boat before they fire. Xizor might not last all those Torpedoes. Maybe he gets Sensor Jammer?

Guri with Sensor Jammer and Auto Includes is pretty nice. I would call that defensive. Her ability with Attani Mindlink is pretty nice for the whole list.

She can't be that bad if someone made #7 at Tatooine. Personally, I think people just don't give off lists much of a chance before they give up on them. It takes practice to get good with any list.

My current issue with Sensor Jammer ( Used to run Guri with Jammer and Palob, to increase it's effectiveness ) is that in the current meta, you are either facing full token aces or Jumpmasters firing protons. The aces don't care and the JM will thank you for allowing them a crit.

Also, when they were released, I managed regional cut using Xizor and five Pirates but I haven't been able to do it again since.

Guri with Sensor Jammers and Palob are pretty nice. Also, you can double up on Focus with Guri if you need to. That helps vs. multiple attackers, but not if you roll blanks.

I did well with Xizor last year for Regionals, as well, but I think the low PS Z's are the weak spot now. That...and maybe Xizor needs Sensor Jammers vs. U-boats. That way U-boats don't have a Focus and he can shift off another hit to someone nearby. I also like the above list for Feedback Array to try to handle Aces. Any Imp Ace would die if he got within R1 of those Z-95's. Still.....not tried it.

OK.

So I seems like the Starviper is good, not the most competative right out of the box, but has potential with the right upgrades and squadmates.

FUN!

All that, AND you get two autothrusters in the box

And it's **** sexy.

Its not an overly amazing ship

I think this sums it up best. It's not OP. The only things that make it to the top tables at tournaments are pretty much things that can be abused. It's not abuse-able. It's simply a good ship.

I don't understand the comment about having no high PS pilot, as Xizor with VI is PS 9. He's not flown like an arc dodger and that confuses people. They are used to just arc dodgers. He's a jouster in the middle of a swarm that's good.

Xizor get to PS9 with 1 action and some particular ship can have 9 and 3 actions.

Lousy dial, lousy greens, overal costly, guri has BIGGZ-LEVEL Ps5

no Xizor also gets 3 "Actions"

1. normal action
2. FCS target-lock
3. better than evade

two of those are action independent, meaning he cares FAR less about stress or bumping

The Starviper is not a PTL arc dodger. I think that's what really gets some people. It's not meant to be flown that way.

THIS!

Constantly I hear people talking about its inefficiencies. When they explain why it is so, they always reveal they are attempting to fly this ship the same way an Interceptor or an A-wing is typically flown.

The Starviper is a state of the art Fighter. It takes the best of the X-wing and the TIE Fighter and mixes them together. It hits hard like an X-wing and has hull and shields to help keep it on the board. It is fast and nimble like a TIE Fighter and uses its superior dial to force the fight where it wants it to be.

The fact that the base Starviper is a PS 1 should give you a clue as to what this ship's strength is. It wants to move first, to get in the way and create firing lanes that benefit its fleet. The Starviper is the ultimate fighter. It should be used to create no win situations for your opponent.

As many have said, had the title not been unique we'd probably see a lot more of them on the table. A Starviper with FCS is a scary thing! I personally wish I could run two at PS 1 with FCS as part of a list.

I saw Guri the other day on the tables, for the first time in over a year.

It was glorious.

How would you advise making the most of Guri? She wants to get in close but is only PS5, and however much you say it's not an arc dodger if you're at range one of your enemies you always want to try and get out of their arc (and five health isn't amazing, even if it is behind 3 greens), which again is hard at PS5.

How would you advise making the most of Guri?

Thrusters will help her on the approach and vs turrets.

Lone Wolf will help her regardless, as long as no friendly ships are within R 1-2. You're at 34 pts.

If you go to 39 you can add in Sensor Jammer, which makes her truly beast mode, but too pricey for my own taste.

The only thing that can be done to make guri even close to as badass as xizor is SJ with Palob trolling around near her

I've never flown Guri, but I've been wanting to. I think Attani Mindlink is going to help with that. I'll have to figure out how to fly her.

The only thing that can be done to make guri even close to as badass as xizor is SJ with Palob trolling around near her

Is Xizor that good then? OK, it strongly encourages people to focus on his escort first, but it he dangerous enough for that to be much of an issue? You're always going to focus one somebody else first.

The only thing that can be done to make guri even close to as badass as xizor is SJ with Palob trolling around near her

My biggest issue with Xizor is that you need to really build the rest of your squad around him. He usually turns out to be about a 60 point chunk of a list (Xizor + 2 Z-95s).

Problem with xizor is it's easy to overvalue fodder

As long as you're not passing crits to a hwk or another viper, it really doesn't matter who your meat shield is. Either xizor is taking damage better than they would or he's not getting shot at all

YVs, Ys and jm5ks all make fine sponges while being far more impactful than Z's, generally.

The only thing that can be done to make guri even close to as badass as xizor is SJ with Palob trolling around near her

Is Xizor that good then? OK, it strongly encourages people to focus on his escort first, but it he dangerous enough for that to be much of an issue? You're always going to focus one somebody else first.

I was able to kill a Leebo Outrider flown by the guy who won the Atlanta Regionals a year or two ago. I wiped out Chewbacca, but all my Z's were killed in the process. I was then able to get behind Leebo and just kept in R1 and took him down. Used action to reposition and the FCS gave me the TL. It only took a few turns.

Xizor has 3 dice and gets 4 at close range. FCS helps him target someone down. He can usually get a shot, unless they are moving after him.

The only thing that can be done to make guri even close to as badass as xizor is SJ with Palob trolling around near her

My biggest issue with Xizor is that you need to really build the rest of your squad around him. He usually turns out to be about a 60 point chunk of a list (Xizor + 2 Z-95s).

Yes, but I've not had issues with that so far.