I am primarily a Rebel player, and enjoy a good Imperial Ace list from time to time.

As such, my attention has been drawn to the Starviper expansion because it is presently the only way to get Auto thrusters.

As I have been researching the ship and proxying it in a couple of games, I am gaining a buding respect for the zippy little thing.
The Starviper really doesn't seem like a bad little ship, but I never see it in any lists!

Does anyone feel like sharing why it is SO rare to see a Starviper around.

It's probably my favorite ship to play in the game but at a top competitive level it doesn't really bring enough value for its points. It lacks a high PS pilot and the greens to allow people to play it like an Interceptor, which is what a lot of people want it to be. I find I do better with it when I think of it as a more nimble B-Wing.

Virago being unique and costing a point really hurts the ship in my opinion.

everyone has them theyre just busy collecting dust because they bought'm for the autothrustors not the ship

In all seriousness, i see it fairly often around here. Its not an overly amazing ship but its not a pushover either. Guri can be a pain in the butt.

I love playing Guri. But its one of those ships, one mistake and you are dead... One of the reasons its fun to play, but not seen in highy competetive lists I think.

My best vipering has come from the base generic. It's everything that people want from the x-wing. Good attack, defense, mobility and action bar.

Well, considering that (2) Z-95's @ 24pts is always a better investment* than (1) SV @ 25pts...

(* More blocking, more Red Dice, more total hitpoints, etc. )

less evade each and pathetic action bars though.

Z95s are better in raw dice but Vipers allow better flying either to keep using those dice or avoid other's dice.

That being said if you run Xizor without a random Z95 shmuck flying near him you arent flying right. That dumping 1 damage off is a HUGE perk. Ratfink usually lasts quite awhile against me.

the no-name pilots are overpriced to hell (2-3 points at the very least), no two ways around that. there's also no goddamn reason for virago to cost a point

at least Xizor is a boss monster ace who doesn't give a ****, but his cohorts are all so incompetent that it's difficult to get a list built around him. Ys and Z-95s just don't cut it anymore

you can try wedging him as late game for torp scouts

Xizor (vi, virago, fcs, thrusters) [37]

Torp scout (deadeye, plasmas, extras, r4; chips) [33]

Torp scout (deadeye, plasmas, overclocked; chips) [30]

for best results, repaint him because he deserves better

StarViper suffers from many small inefficiencies:

1, generally considered overcosted, like most ships that overpay for agility

2, pilot abilities are considered sub-par. Guri's is OK, Xizor's is largely useless

3, in some strange middle ground between jouster and arc dodger, but not especially effective at either

4, good action bar, but no action economy. PTL a poor choice due to limited greens on dial.

5, middling to poor PS ratings across all levels. PS 1 is for blockers and it is too expensive for that role. PS 3 without an EPT is almost useless. PS 5 for a ship that wants to be range 1 to trigger ability is a poor idea. PS 7 for an "ace" with a weak ability is poor.

6, mediocre dial. No 3-turns and no K-turns are both obvious omissions, though the 1-turn is always nice. Greens are subpar.

I would not classify it as "bad," just not competitive. You can do some things with them, but at higher levels, the inefficiencies and lack of a clear strength really catch up to you.

Its not an overly amazing ship

I think this sums it up best. It's not OP. The only things that make it to the top tables at tournaments are pretty much things that can be abused. It's not abuse-able. It's simply a good ship.

I don't understand the comment about having no high PS pilot, as Xizor with VI is PS 9. He's not flown like an arc dodger and that confuses people. They are used to just arc dodgers. He's a jouster in the middle of a swarm that's good.

People have been flying Guri with Attani Mindlink and a few other ships with the same to good effect. I think that's a combo that's starting to take off.

U-boats also kill off a lot of list types these days. That's why you basically see U-boats and Imp Aces all over the place.

Guri & Xizor are slightly overcosted but very fun and playable

Generics are definitely overcosted

Primarily, they can't be defensive enough having no evade action.

Sensor jammer only works when the attacker doesn't have focus.

The dial is so good though...

lack of evades is what Xizor is for

his ability is a far superior version of evade against everything except TLTs

far superior meaning

• action-independent
• not once per round
• does not trigger gunner
• can pawn off crits

it seriously gets to the point where he might as well have the inverse of Biggs' ability

Just as a house rule but we have been running Title as a zero cost, and can take it on generics as well. It makes Guri and Xizor a little more efficient point-wise and allows to generics to be spiced up a little without paying a tax.

Guri was in a list that made top 8 at Tatooine.

I don't understand the comment about having no high PS pilot, as Xizor with VI is PS 9. He's not flown like an arc dodger and that confuses people. They are used to just arc dodgers. He's a jouster in the middle of a swarm that's good.

With VI he's a 9 but you need to give up his EPT slot to get there and you still are going to have a lower PS than a decent number of aces or need to worry about an initiative bid to against other 9s.

People have been flying Guri with Attani Mindlink and a few other ships with the same to good effect. I think that's a combo that's starting to take off.

.

This is something I'm very interested in. I've been playing nothing but Attanni Mindlink lists since wave 9, but I've yet to give Guri a shot, which is odd, since she's one of my favorite pilots.

Guri with just Mindlink is just 31 points, with Manaroo, you can give her 2/3 focus a turn + a TL (3 focus is not necessarily overkill, considering she's often the target of multiple shots). At that cost, she seems reasonably priced. The trouble is finding what to accompany them with. Do you have any ideas or know of any lists people have been using?

At Tatooine:

José Manuel Morillo - (#7 in 2-day Swiss) Total 2-day points: 35. Total MoV: 1258

• 100 points
• Gand findsman + Attani Mindlink + Sensor Jammer + Tactician + title + Tractor Beam
• Palob Godalhi + Attani Mindlink + Twin Laser Turret + Gonk
• Guri + Attani Mindlink + Sensor Jammer + Autothrusters + title

And a buddy of mine runs a similar list locally:

Palob + Attani Mindlink, +TLT +Cloaking Device (or Dorsal turret +Stygium Particle Accelerator in lieu of TLT)

Manaroo + Attani Mindlink +K4 Security Droid +Feedback Array + Unhinged Astromech

Guri +Title+ Advanced Sensors + Autothrusters.

There are a number of things. Manaroo is one. Palob is another. Some are using 4-LOM. I've even heard tales of Cobra Talonbane, but not that they are necessarily doing so well.

I know Dwing used this over the weekend and did alright:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!173:176,136,126,122,118,-1:-1:25:;101:176,-1:-1:15:;125:176,135,-1,145:-1:-1:&sn=Manaroo%2C%20Guri%2C%20Palop

I think the thread on Attani Mindlink has a lot of example lists.

OK.

So I seems like the Starviper is good, not the most competative right out of the box, but has potential with the right upgrades and squadmates.

FUN!

All that, AND you get two autothrusters in the box

IMOHO, a big part of the disappointment is that it's an "Elite" $20 small ship that isn't as good as the more basic $15 smmall ships (TIE Punisher has the same problem).

Paying a 30% premium for mediocrity tends to leave a bad taste in player's mouths.

I think people were hoping for something meta-defining from the Starviper. But Autothrusters has really been the only thing in the expansion that has made a big splash... the ship itself is largely ignored.

Like a lot of other clunker ships, the Starviper has been kind of "Dead on Arrival" for high end play and could really use a fix (like the A-wing, Defender, and TIE Advance have gotten) to make it what it should have been in the first place.

Ship itself isn't an issue. And Guri & Xizor are both excellently defensive ships who can have that emphasised even further if you want.

Problem is, they're still a 3-die gun, and the generics cost 5 points more than a Kithraxz for all of 1 more agility, while the aces are better value yet easily creep towards costing 40 points. That's just a little too much, for not quite enough dakka nor acewing (ie PS and repositioning actions) to make 'em worthwhile. I'm honestly not sure how to fix them, but I hope it's with a firepower enhancement, so their price and toughness becomes justified. And Xizor's ability becomes valued, simply for keeping the omg-kill-it-now ship alive that much longer.

Until Scum Aces or whatever come out, you won't see the Starviper much. Its in a weird position of being sort-of an interceptor, sort-of a lite-heavy fighter (Defender/B-wing style) but lacks the upgrades/EPTs/has too high of points to really be either.

At Tatooine:

José Manuel Morillo - (#7 in 2-day Swiss) Total 2-day points: 35. Total MoV: 1258

• 100 points
• Gand findsman + Attani Mindlink + Sensor Jammer + Tactician + title + Tractor Beam
• Palob Godalhi + Attani Mindlink + Twin Laser Turret + Gonk
• Guri + Attani Mindlink + Sensor Jammer + Autothrusters + title

Thanks for sharing that list. I always want to know what the cutting edge starviper lists are. I've tried attani link, but I still lean towards Lone Wolf currently.

Ship itself isn't an issue. And Guri & Xizor are both excellently defensive ships who can have that emphasised even further if you want.

While I like both guri and xizor, I can't really call either of them excellently defensive until they have a way to get evade tokens. Almost every time my guri dies it's becaues she rolls all blank greens. Doesn't do me any good to have a stack of focus tokens if I don't roll any eyeballs.

Star Viper is difficult because it is comparable to the expensive strike ships like the E-wing and TIE Defender. But the thing is you pay a premium for the stat line of 3 firepower 3 agility and >4 hitpoints. which means getting one of those ships is worth 2 of the disposable 12 point ships, yet you could do more with 2 cheap ships than you can do with one expensive ship. So ships like the Star Viper have to be built up into a centerpiece Ace, however unlike the centerpiece Aces that you see in list such as Imperial Aces the Star Viper doesn't have a high pilot skill (7+) unique pilot with an ability like Corran Horn or Whisper. So you don't make an Ace out of a Star Viper list.

The Star Viper main weakness is the Pilots, mainly Xizor. A high stat ship needs to be expensive so you will be going for the highest cost pilots not the lowest cost. Xizor ability does not fit anywhere. Now if FFG did a special release for some of the under-performing S&V ships *cough-cough* Scyk, Star Viper, Klingon ahem* then we may get an 8 ore even 9 skill pilot that has a good ability and you may start to see Scum Aces list come out and play.