So Savage Spirits became officially available in the UK today and many online retailers are selling the book at a very reasonable price of around £20 and I'm sure that many of your FLGS's are selling for the same price.

However a quick trip to Amazon ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Force-Destiny-RPG/dp/1633442446/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465830737&sr=8-1&keywords=savage+spirits) reveals that the retailer "docsmagic" wants £55 for it. This book literally just came out and already the greedy market is trying to swallow it up.

And it gets worse, if you are just discovering this RPG and want to check out some of the source books then the last one (Keeping the Peace) is available on Amazon (UK) for £63.18.

Now I know you can say that you can shop elsewhere for these books and rightly so, but if you pay for Amazon Prime which costs £80 a year roughly then Amazon becomes pretty much your exclusive online retailer. And even if you were to venture out to other websites you will find Keeping the Peace extremely hard to find from a UK retailer as they either out of stock or overpriced like the above Amazon purchases.

If you are one of these leeches who buys these books up cheap and then sells them on later for profit then you are one of the problems why P&P RPG's are dying out, people think it's too expensive to get into and if they persist in seeking out these books they will find that they can in fact get them for free.

Now I am not endorsing Piracy at all (I love my physical collection of books) but I can understand why some people turn to it looking at these ridiculous prices.

Rant over,

LeighPouse

It also doesn't help that under FFG's Star Wars license PDFs are considered video games, and are therefore prohibited from distributing them. I'm sure many individuals would forego the loveliness of owning a book in exchange for the actual content, plus for other FFG RPGs that have PDF versions available, the PDFs are about half-price, which would satisfy the buyer's pocketbooks and would likely get FFG more revenue.

There is, however, a downside to this. If FFG sold PDF versions of their Star Wars RPG, then PDF versions of the content would, obviously, be more readily available, potentially increasing the amount of people pirating and illegally distributing their content.

Even if FFG were not restricted to a book-only SWRPG, they might not release PDF versions, as they might lose revenue in the process.

It also doesn't help that under FFG's Star Wars license PDFs are considered video games, and are therefore prohibited from distributing them. I'm sure many individuals would forego the loveliness of owning a book in exchange for the actual content, plus for other FFG RPGs that have PDF versions available, the PDFs are about half-price, which would satisfy the buyer's pocketbooks and would likely get FFG more revenue.

It is unfair and stupid that they can't produce PDF's. In all fairness if they suddenly could release PDF's I would own both, simply cos it's easier to search through a PDF but you can't beat having a physical book in your hands

It also doesn't help that under FFG's Star Wars license PDFs are considered video games, and are therefore prohibited from distributing them. I'm sure many individuals would forego the loveliness of owning a book in exchange for the actual content, plus for other FFG RPGs that have PDF versions available, the PDFs are about half-price, which would satisfy the buyer's pocketbooks and would likely get FFG more revenue.

It is unfair and stupid that they can't produce PDF's. In all fairness if they suddenly could release PDF's I would own both, simply cos it's easier to search through a PDF but you can't beat having a physical book in your hands

Blame West End Games, who are pretty much the primary party responsible for the RPG license being in the shape it's in, as they had little to no interest in several potential aspects, thus resulting in the license being as fragmented as it is.

Problem also is that with the electronic rights now being held by EA, it's even more of a mess to de-tangle PDF rights and have those included with FFG's license. And sadly, the cost in terms of lawyers to hash all that mess out is probably far more than what FFG feels they would make in return. Their best option to see about getting PDF rights added to the license was when it came up for renewal some point last year, but sadly that didn't happen for reasons the general public isn't privy to, but I'm guessing largely come down to legal fees related to contract re-negotiations, which I'm sure can get obscenely expensive, especially since it'd not only involve revamping FFG's licensing agreement, but now revamping EA's agreement to exclude PDFs as well. To us the customers, it might appear like an easy, cut-and-dry thing to fix, but when it comes to contract law, there's no such thing as "easy" or "cut-and-dry" it would seem.

And as Chxckmate noted, PDF piracy is going to happen either way. It's probably a bit less of a fiscal hit if FFG were able to sell PDFs, and I'm sure they'd love to be able to do so, but sadly there's not really anything that can be done,

It also doesn't help that under FFG's Star Wars license PDFs are considered video games, and are therefore prohibited from distributing them. I'm sure many individuals would forego the loveliness of owning a book in exchange for the actual content, plus for other FFG RPGs that have PDF versions available, the PDFs are about half-price, which would satisfy the buyer's pocketbooks and would likely get FFG more revenue.

It is unfair and stupid that they can't produce PDF's. In all fairness if they suddenly could release PDF's I would own both, simply cos it's easier to search through a PDF but you can't beat having a physical book in your hands

It is neither unfair or stupid. At the time that all of this stuff went down no one new that pdf book reading would be a thing. Thus how were people supposed to know to keep the pdf book rights separate for the purpose of the rpg line?

Also I'm hard pressed to see any truth to the claim that P&P RPG's are dying out. D&D sells well. Pathfinder sells well. Hell FFG is always reprinting books and materials for this line. That's a clear indication of the health of the line itself and also the RPG industry. If P&P are dying then who keeps buying up all of FFG's Star Wars books?

I am sure they are many store in UK with online website that will gladly sell you a book. Stop supporting thieves like amazon and began to support your FLG

I am sure they are many store in UK with online website that will gladly sell you a book. Stop supporting thieves like amazon and began to support your FLG

I would Love nothing more than to support my FLGS, unfortunately I do not have one

I am sure they are many store in UK with online website that will gladly sell you a book. Stop supporting thieves like amazon and began to support your FLG

I would Love nothing more than to support my FLGS, unfortunately I do not have one

Also some LGS's have too much difficulty shipping stuff (mine has outright suggested I buy stuff from amazon in the past).

My FLGS went under almost a decade ago:(

Amazon is god-awful for FFG books.

Have you tried mail order from real RPG shops like Orc's Nest or Wayland's Forge, Leigh?

Amazon is god-awful for FFG books.

Amazon is god-awful for any RPG publisher that's not WotC or Paizo. I've ordered a couple books through them that took weeks to get shipped even when listed as being "in stock," and have heard similar stories from a friend of mine that has no FLGS within a reasonable area and so has to resort to Amazon to get his RPG dead-tree version fix.

Amazon is god-awful for FFG books.

Have you tried mail order from real RPG shops like Orc's Nest or Wayland's Forge, Leigh?

Waylands Forge atm are struggling to get Esdevium to send enough FFG stock, but they will always do what they can. As My FLGS I try and get as much as poss from them, but I have had to go elsewhere for FFG stuff that I have not preordered.

Visited Orcs Nest for the first time in April. seemed a good little store.

The root cause is lack of customer support in the UK. FFG just DO NOT send enough, it's as simple as that, so there is mad scramble by us all in the UK and the lucky ones get first print. My NSLFGS* only had F&D Core and Beginner's box, Jewel of Yavin and a career splatbook last week

FFG know (and IMO care more for) their domestic market - the USA. UK gamers have had the same problem for nearly every release.

Nexus of Power... none left in the UK a couple of weeks back, still an absolute F****** shedload available from Amazon US or Ebay US.

OK in FFG's defence, though I'm at pains to defend them, they don't want a 4E nightmare - books left unsold.... but really, can you see any FFGSW RPG being unsold/unwanted in warehouses or landfill?

(* Not So Local Friendly Gaming Shop - Wayland's Forge)

Also being in the UK, I know the feeling of frustration at the high demand for books when they come out and there not being enough available. This led me to developing a particular strategy when I find out that FFG RPG books are available in the UK - I basically now have a set list of sites that I use to find books and madly scramble through them until I find somewhere with it in stock for a reasonable price. Generally I don't pre-order (having had several pre-orders for FFG books go unfulfilled in the past) or use Amazon.

I tend to take the view that if there is high demand for the books that shows the game is in good health. I just wish that FFG made more available at release over here.

I find all this interesting since FFG merged with Asmodee back in 2014. You'd think after that there would be better distribution in Europe, since Asmodee is an European company.

Tried, my local shop can't seem to get hold of any of the books I don't have and those npc cards are still out of stock.

Have no problem waiting that's how I picked up the Hutt book & Sun's of Fortune!

I find all this interesting since FFG merged with Asmodee back in 2014. You'd think after that there would be better distribution in Europe, since Asmodee is an European company.

This. You have no idea how many times I've thought precisely this.

I find all this interesting since FFG merged with Asmodee back in 2014. You'd think after that there would be better distribution in Europe, since Asmodee is an European company.

Especially as the press release announcing the merger (acquisition?) pretty much said this was exactly what was going to happen.

It also doesn't help that under FFG's Star Wars license PDFs are considered video games, and are therefore prohibited from distributing them. I'm sure many individuals would forego the loveliness of owning a book in exchange for the actual content, plus for other FFG RPGs that have PDF versions available, the PDFs are about half-price, which would satisfy the buyer's pocketbooks and would likely get FFG more revenue.

It is unfair and stupid that they can't produce PDF's. In all fairness if they suddenly could release PDF's I would own both, simply cos it's easier to search through a PDF but you can't beat having a physical book in your hands

Blame West End Games, who are pretty much the primary party responsible for the RPG license being in the shape it's in, as they had little to no interest in several potential aspects, thus resulting in the license being as fragmented as it is.

Problem also is that with the electronic rights now being held by EA, it's even more of a mess to de-tangle PDF rights and have those included with FFG's license. And sadly, the cost in terms of lawyers to hash all that mess out is probably far more than what FFG feels they would make in return. Their best option to see about getting PDF rights added to the license was when it came up for renewal some point last year, but sadly that didn't happen for reasons the general public isn't privy to, but I'm guessing largely come down to legal fees related to contract re-negotiations, which I'm sure can get obscenely expensive, especially since it'd not only involve revamping FFG's licensing agreement, but now revamping EA's agreement to exclude PDFs as well. To us the customers, it might appear like an easy, cut-and-dry thing to fix, but when it comes to contract law, there's no such thing as "easy" or "cut-and-dry" it would seem.

And as Chxckmate noted, PDF piracy is going to happen either way. It's probably a bit less of a fiscal hit if FFG were able to sell PDFs, and I'm sure they'd love to be able to do so, but sadly there's not really anything that can be done,

That sounds really lame... :/

My biggest problem atm is actually getting hold of old/obsolete systems. I am currently in preparation for a Warcraft rpg while on a SW break. I have 90% of the books but could not get a couple @ time of release as they were really underproduced.

even the common stuff now is £60+.

Pdfs of this old stuff would now not penalise the company (white Wolf) as they don't exist any more. But would really help me.

... and back in the day before E-postitataridiculouspricebeacauseit'snowoutofprint-bay, most used/second-hand rules/books were half price or less...

It also doesn't help that under FFG's Star Wars license PDFs are considered video games, and are therefore prohibited from distributing them. I'm sure many individuals would forego the loveliness of owning a book in exchange for the actual content, plus for other FFG RPGs that have PDF versions available, the PDFs are about half-price, which would satisfy the buyer's pocketbooks and would likely get FFG more revenue.

It is unfair and stupid that they can't produce PDF's. In all fairness if they suddenly could release PDF's I would own both, simply cos it's easier to search through a PDF but you can't beat having a physical book in your hands

Blame West End Games, who are pretty much the primary party responsible for the RPG license being in the shape it's in, as they had little to no interest in several potential aspects, thus resulting in the license being as fragmented as it is.

Problem also is that with the electronic rights now being held by EA, it's even more of a mess to de-tangle PDF rights and have those included with FFG's license. And sadly, the cost in terms of lawyers to hash all that mess out is probably far more than what FFG feels they would make in return. Their best option to see about getting PDF rights added to the license was when it came up for renewal some point last year, but sadly that didn't happen for reasons the general public isn't privy to, but I'm guessing largely come down to legal fees related to contract re-negotiations, which I'm sure can get obscenely expensive, especially since it'd not only involve revamping FFG's licensing agreement, but now revamping EA's agreement to exclude PDFs as well. To us the customers, it might appear like an easy, cut-and-dry thing to fix, but when it comes to contract law, there's no such thing as "easy" or "cut-and-dry" it would seem.

And as Chxckmate noted, PDF piracy is going to happen either way. It's probably a bit less of a fiscal hit if FFG were able to sell PDFs, and I'm sure they'd love to be able to do so, but sadly there's not really anything that can be done,

To be fair to WEG the concept of a PDF did not even exist then and they were not programmers so digital gaming was not a concept they even thought of...Most people did not have a computer when they started...

It was all Spectrum 48k or 128, Commodore 64/Amigas, Amstrad 464 etc... a few others - the BBC one, early IBM and maybe Apples... dunno, it's been a while

Also most if not all those WEG books were laid out on paper not on computer. Yes, thats how you did it back in the 80's.\
QuarkXpress, which was the industry standard back then, didn't come out until 87'.

I live in italy, in Rome

i got a LGS right outside my home, less than 20 meters from my door. He does'nt have FFG Star Wars RPG books

i asked if he could order, and he subtlety told me to buy from amazon

i have a friend who own a LGS, and told me "order FFG materials not distributed in italy is a pain in the arse, i dunno if i can order it, and probably i should charge you with my expenses"

i tried on other LGS and ULGS (where U means Unfriendly), and i got similar response (or, worse, something like "Star Wars FFG? did you mean IA? only RPG i got is d20..." and that from the ULGS ones... x_x )

i tried on ebay, cost is +50-200% than FFG cost (variable for different books)

i tried on an online shop where i bought IA-related material (and also many models/paint/brushes for WH40k) but he does'nt sell FFG Star Wars books

i also tried buying from US or UK shop, but custom fees are even worse than shipping cost and thus a single book will came around 200-300% cost than listed one

luckily, i'm part of a large and old "gaming group" so we share books and have several contact from sellers and distributors so we can cut the cost. However, most of the more recent books are only a mirage (one of my player is still waiting SM since... well... seems forever...)

i got very similar problem with almost every RPG that's not DnD, Pathfinder, and few others, but i could always buy PDF version for less cost, no shipping fee, no custom, and store them into the kindle/computer... (thus freeing space in the library )