Hello all.

Last session one of my players wanted to use Hurl to throw an enemy into another enemy. He argued that this would deal damage to both NPCs.

So Silhouette 1 = 10 damage to each of them.

I allowed it, as they were minions, and it allowed the character to really shine. However, I am not sure the Move/Hurl power is meant to be used that way.

If he wants to do this in the future I am thinking I at least need to upgrade the discipline check, as he is dealing with 2 living targets. And it's a pretty obvious use of a force power, so I am thinking it attracts a lot of unwanted attention. Unless the NPC are killed to prevent them spreading the tale... in which case it would be a pretty severe morality hit.

I am curious what you guys think, and if you have any thoughts about how I should handle this in the future.

GM's discretion, though the 10 on each version is a fairly common interpretation.

You're correct in that part of the determination may be a matter of era of play. Chucking around Stormtroopers does tend to get you on the wanted holos pretty quick. Chucking around battledroids while on a mission for the Jedi Council and Republic just means it's Tuesday.

I would also award a few points of conflict every time someone used move on sentient beings a couple more to make two crash into each other like you described.

I would definitely upgrade the difficulty. For minions I would figure out how much damage they are trying to produce and find out what silhouette that would be equivalent to (in your scenario 20 damage, so silhouette 2) and upgrade the difficulty accordingly. I would not require additional force point expenditure though. For important rivals and all nemeses I would make it a resisted check (usually Discipline vs Disciple but could be versus another stat such as Coordination).

I don't have my book handy, but doesn't the "hurl objects" Control Upgrade pretty much say that both the target and the hurled object take damage based upon the size of the hurled object?

So if a PC hurls a Silhouette 1 thug into another Silhouette 1 thug (presuming the PC succeeded on the required Discipline check to hit with the hurled object), then they'd both take 10 damage plus successes. Which means that Move can be very handy in clearing out small groups of minions very quickly, not unlike Kenobi and Qui-Gon using a Force slam on small groups of battle droids in TPM (likely an instance of using Magnitude Upgrades to "slam" the droids into the floor, dealing so much damage they were obliterated and thus narratively scattered across the ground in parts). In fact one of the devs (Sam Stewart) actually clarified back when it was just EotE that part of the intent of Move was to replicate the Force slam/shove/throw type of effect we see in the prequels.

As for the amount of Conflict generated, I'd say that's something to be determined on a case-by-case basis. If the bad guys are openly and aggressively attacking before the PC decides to start literally tossing bozos, then I probably wouldn't assign any Conflict. If the targets in question weren't actively attacking the PC when they decide to start foe-tossing, then I'd consider Conflict, with a minimum of 1 (using violence to solve a dilemma) but probably no higher than 3 unless the PC was really petty/vindictive about it.

The force power move does not generate conflict. So tossing dudes into each other does not generate conflict.

The reason why the character is bowling for stormtroopers is what determines any and all conflict generated.

Fighting without trying to resolve it without violence conflict.

Attacking unarmed individuals conflict

Mindless Destruction conflict.

Defending yourself no conflict.

Can you hurl weapons at enemies for extra damage. My thought was hurling an arrow at someone for the damage of the arrow not the 5 damage of silhouette 0. What about a melee weapon?

Can you hurl weapons at enemies for extra damage. My thought was hurling an arrow at someone for the damage of the arrow not the 5 damage of silhouette 0. What about a melee weapon?

Hurling weapons skirts right along the path of throwing lightsabers, and there's already a talent for that in one (or more) of the F&D trees. On the one hand, it makes a certain amount of sense to throw an axe rather than a wrench... but thematically, that represents an amount of malice aforethought that runs counter to heroic characters (YMMV). On the other hand, there was a Legends Force-tradition (the Zeishon Sha) that carried a sort of chakram/discblade that they threw to great effect.

Generally I would go with sil + damage of the weapon when you hurl them.

So sil 0 would be 5 + weapon damage while sil 4 would be 40 + weapon damage.

The force power move does not generate conflict. So tossing dudes into each other does not generate conflict.

The reason why the character is bowling for stormtroopers is what determines any and all conflict generated.

Fighting without trying to resolve it without violence conflict.

Attacking unarmed individuals conflict

Mindless Destruction conflict.

Defending yourself no conflict.

By default, very few of the Force powers printed would generate Conflict. But in a number of cases, it could very well come down to how you use the power that could generate Conflict.

Yes, a PC can use Move to pick someone up that's just standing around and float them out to Medium Range. And if the PC gently drops them on the ground, there's no Conflict. If the PC smashes that someone into a wall, that's Conflict. If the PC floats them over a massive drop and then lets go, that's a whole mess of Conflict for committing what is quite frankly outright murder of an innocent being.

Bind is another example. Just using it to freeze someone in place doesn't generate Conflict in and of itself, but if you use it to effectively lock a person in a burning room, that's going to generate Conflict and lots of it.

Can you hurl weapons at enemies for extra damage. My thought was hurling an arrow at someone for the damage of the arrow not the 5 damage of silhouette 0. What about a melee weapon?

Since using the Move power to hurl the weapon means that you're not using it properly or how it was designed to be use, then it'd just be the base 5 damage for a Silhouette 0 object plus your successes.

The Zeison Sha tradition that Snuffy mentioned would be an exception, which itself is based around using the Force to affect a very specific weapon that their tradition had spent significant time mastering. More than likely, in this system it'd be covered by a talent to let the PC make proper use of a weapon with the Move power.

I'm sorry but If I shoot people in the face with a blaster pistol in self defense I won't get conflict so why would slamming a dude into a wall with the force in self defense generate conflict?

I'm sorry but If I shoot people in the face with a blaster pistol in self defense I won't get conflict so why would slamming a dude into a wall with the force in self defense generate conflict?

Because using the Force itself requires a higher moral standard, hence why the trait in question is called Morality. That's always been the case in Star Wars though. Using the Force to injure living people has always been viewed as a bad thing and typically something that leads you down the path to the Darkside. Awarding Conflict for bowling Stormtroopers over with other Stormtroopers would be consistent with how the setting itself tends to portray the use of the Force against other living beings.

That's not to say a person shouldn't do it. To be frank gaining a little Conflict here and there isn't a bad thing. But awarding Conflict for using Move as an attack power would be fairly consistent with how the Force has been depicted over the years. Aggressive use of the Force (which is what slamming a dude into a wall is) is supposed to be a bad thing, even if you're doing it for good reasons or in self defense.

Not that I bother with Conflict, but I wouldn't give any for normal combat use even if I did use it.

Five stormtroopers arrive and fire at the character. He wouldn't get Conflict for shooting back with a heavy blaster rifle and mowing them down with autofire. So I wouldn't give Conflict if he launches them all into a wall head-first at terminal velocity either.

YYMV, of course, and that kind of thing might attract attention in a busy street, but that depends on the setting of your game.

Just telekinetically throwing passing bystanders off a cliff to their doom for no reason is Conflict-worthy. We never see the movie characters angst over dispatching stormtroopers or skiff guards so I personally wouldn't penalise them in a game with 'Wars' in the title.

I'm sorry but If I shoot people in the face with a blaster pistol in self defense I won't get conflict so why would slamming a dude into a wall with the force in self defense generate conflict?

If you bother to actually read what I posted, each scenario I laid out was for someone that wasn't attacking the PC. Where the Force is concerned, there really isn't any such thing as "pre-emptive self-defense." If the target isn't attacking you, then they're not considered an immediate threat. Pretty cut and dry.

And to make it clear, a PC would generate the same amount of Conflict if they used a blaster to shoot a non-combatant in the face just the same as if they used the Force to smash that person into a wall.