I still maintain that Palp Aces is just as broken, if not more so than U-Boats.

People are just mad that a squadron of jousters is actually playable. These people whining about how rebels aren't doing well in tournaments are just angry that they can't get 10 shields out of their 4 point upgrade by doing green maneuvers they were going to do anyways, or that their regenerating small base turret is no longer a meta staple. Rebel players deserve no sympathy, all of their staple lists since wave 4 have been based around turrets or regen or some other obnoxious NPE like "guessing" zero for C-3PO, using R2crew to regen a shield, and using an evade token to cancel 3 damage a turn and shut down any chance the other player has in the end game. Or Super Dash's ability to ignore literally everything interesting and challenging about this game. No rebel list has required any skill since wave 3 besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z). Doing a green 1 straight into my formation and just out damage mitigating my ships and then flying away to regen the damage you couldn't mitigate is not skill, neither are turrets of course. ***** about wave 8's lack of list diversity when every wave 7 rebel list had Poe and/or Miranda in it, K.

Then you have typical Imperial player greed, bitching about how Deadeye is an OP card because it allows low PS Jousters to not just get dominated by aces that can abuse the low PS TL acquisition problem, or that the combo of upgrades they use are too good, or that they're undercosted. They complain that U-Boats are point and shoot and that all they require is the ability to fly at your opponent and focus, meanwhile all of their Acewings have green hard turns and the ability to do 3 actions a turn with a support ship carrying hyper C-3PO. Imperial players complaining about undercosted ships with upgrades that super combo together, let that sink in for a moment.

I have an idea, if all you have to do to beat Palp Aces is get good and block, why don't you just do that against U-Boats bro? If they don't have their focus they're not firing their torpedoes brah.

Let me get this into a list for you:

- Palp Aces = OP

- Turrets = evil

- Shield regen = Satan himself

- All rebel players = noobz & no skill

- Haters of U-Boats -> get gud noobz

Signed PGS, No further comment!

Palp Aces is OP.

Turrets are evil and take no skill.

Regen is an awful NPE based mechanic.

No competitive rebel list since wave 4 has required skill besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z) and Paul Heaver's 2015 world's list. So that's correct, all rebel players are no skill noobs besides for B-Wing players and Paul Heaver.

I'd disagree on what you'd think of my opinion of haters of U-Boats. I agree that they're OP. I just disagree that they need to be nerfed because other lists like Palp Aces are just as broken. I'd also be perfectly fine with a U-Boat nerf (such as making Deadeye unique) if Palp Aces was also nerfed, by making Palpatine epic game only or making bank boost give you a stress token like Daredevil or LT. Lorrir's bank barrel roll. Or if Palpatine was in arc, range 1-5 only, he comes on a ship that comes with the huge ship range ruler, so that's not a problem.

The comment at the end of my post about how players need to just get gud and block U-Boats was meant as a parody of greedy Imperial players that tell you that Soontir isn't OP because all you need to do is block him, even though with only 4 naked agility dice and Palpatine he has a 48% chance of taking no damage from a 3/3 hit attack. That's IF you get 3 hits.

Palp Aces are so dominant Right now BECAUSE of U-Boats. They just prevent the Rebel (and any other medium hitpoint agility 1-2 based) lists that kept Palp Aces in check before from being played!

Therefore if they get rid of U-Boats, Palp Aces will stay a good list, but it won't come near the pick and win rate it has now! Which would be much better than what we see now!

You know, if there weren't Palpaces, U-Boats would have a lot of counters. But those just aren't viable against Palpaces.

I.E. This means Scum was underrepresented for a very different reason than Rebels are now! Rebels were the most widely played faction since X-Wing started, and that was the case even when Phantoms took over the meta. Now, we are looking at a swingback, and the only possible explanation for that is that they are not competitive right now.

And my 2cents on this: It's must be due to U-Boats. People just don't stop liking the Rebel faction or ship design, they just realize they are not cutting it at the moment!

Actually I think at the core level the situation is 90% the same. The way I see it, there are two main factors influencing faction choice: how much you like it (be it lore, playstyle or looks) and how good the faction is. How important each of them is varies from person to person. People who like Rebels, just like people who like Scum before are sticking to the faction and (legitimately in both cases) complaining. It's people who want to win (by that I mean those mainly interested in a faction's strength) that aren't. This is where the disproportionate loudness of the situation comes from: Scum was never top dog before, so it didn't really attract many competitive players. They had no horse in the 'Scum is underpowered' race so they stayed quiet. Rebels however were top dog for a long time (too long maybe?), so the competitive players now need to switch factions, invalidating both invested $ and time.

While as a mainly Scum player I feel for the Rebel players, I think that in the grand scheme of things it's better that things got shaken up a bit and it's not always Rebels that are the go-to faction if you want to win. Maybe this year we do get an Imperial or Scum win at Worlds instead of a 4th consecutive rebel win

Oh i can tell you there were some scum players very loud about their lack of good lists. (What was actually sad is that there were more Imp players complaining than scum, despite them having a lot of top tier lists themselves)

It was rather that... Scum had lists that could win tournaments on a regular basis. Brobots, quad TLT and 2 TLT plus ace were in fact top lists that had good success.

Rebels and Imps had more variation in capable lists however. Yes you heard correctly, Scum had 3 top lists and the others had more... Now we have some 3 top lists total, and that's why i am complaining, as i am not actually a Rebel player. I play all factions and i just want to see a diverse, balanced meta.

Here is a fact: Before last worlds, nobody had a clue which list would come out on top, my favorites were actually Palp Aces and Brobots. Heaver's winning list was actually a rare sight, i believe there was only one identical lust to his in the whole tournament and apart from him being a great player, nobody would have thought of his list as anywhere near overpowered. The absolutely stupid and unjustified whining about Stresshog and shield regen began only after his victory in the best balanced meta X-Wing had ever known since when? Wave 3?

If i had to make a prediction now which list would win worlds, i would say Palp Aces or U-Boats, and i would be right in what? 75% of cases if we look at regionals? That is not a balanced game anymore and the situation Scum was in and Rebels are in now are very different in my book!

Isn't Crackshot swarm viable? Isn't Dash Ghost or double Ghost viable? 5 A-Wings with Crackshot? Brobots are still great.

There are more options than just Palp Aces and U-Boats. This is the most diverse meta the game has ever had, and it would only get more diverse with the elimination of Palp Aces from the meta because then all of those PS 4 alpha strikers (besides for Crackswarm) can just feast on the U-Boats, and then a large variety of lists can match or exceed those.

You nerf U-Boats and you know what happens? Palp Aces vs. regen Poe meta with fat turrets and quad TLT. What a fun meta, every top tier list is based around some no-skill NPE mechanic.

Didn't we just get done bitching about how awful quad TLT was? Well it's completely evaporated from the meta.

No they are in fact not entirely viable. They are close but the current results show quite clearly that they are not on par with U-Boats nor Palp aces. That is because U-Boats just push the named Other Rebel lists out of the meta. And it shows by the sheer amount of tournaments these 2 lists win.

If there really were so many counters to U-Boats as you say, where are they? They would have been found right now, and they have not been!

Yes, nerf or counter U-Boats and return to a better and more diverse meta! That's what needs to happen and it will happen hopefully with wave 9! If we go to a wave 3 meta where jousters are the top choice with wave 9, i am totally fine with that, as long as there are multiple viable choices and as long as no faction is hosed as it is now!

You saying that the whole meta before was no-skill is so bonkers that it just deserves one description: Competely delusional!

And on top of that, for what did we exchange it? Palp Aces is still the same, and U-Boats? Do they require more skill than any ace squad? Don't make me laugh!

The counters to U-Boats die to Palp Aces. You can just alpha strike them with PS4 Bombers, but they're TL dependant ordnance boats so they're vulnerable to Acewings that can make concentrating fire with missiles extremely difficult because of the low PS TL acquisition problem.

Counters to U-Boats exist, squads that use them tend to get pounded by Palp Aces. And squads that use Palp Aces counters tend to get pounded by U-Boats of course.

Also, it does take more skill to use U-Boats than Palp Aces. Granted, it's not very difficult, but it's still more difficult than Palp Aces. I have to fly 3 large based ships such that they all have a shot in arc while avoiding obstacles. That's easier than seeing where everything has moved and then doing a green hard turn and boosting and barrel rolling wherever I want to while pulling multiple evade results out of blank dice. Roll 3 blanks? Autothrusters, evade token, Palpatine. It allows you to fly into spots other normal ships would be in danger and just dice mod your way through your poor positioning skills.

I still maintain that Palp Aces is just as broken, if not more so than U-Boats.

People are just mad that a squadron of jousters is actually playable. These people whining about how rebels aren't doing well in tournaments are just angry that they can't get 10 shields out of their 4 point upgrade by doing green maneuvers they were going to do anyways, or that their regenerating small base turret is no longer a meta staple. Rebel players deserve no sympathy, all of their staple lists since wave 4 have been based around turrets or regen or some other obnoxious NPE like "guessing" zero for C-3PO, using R2crew to regen a shield, and using an evade token to cancel 3 damage a turn and shut down any chance the other player has in the end game. Or Super Dash's ability to ignore literally everything interesting and challenging about this game. No rebel list has required any skill since wave 3 besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z). Doing a green 1 straight into my formation and just out damage mitigating my ships and then flying away to regen the damage you couldn't mitigate is not skill, neither are turrets of course. ***** about wave 8's lack of list diversity when every wave 7 rebel list had Poe and/or Miranda in it, K.

Then you have typical Imperial player greed, bitching about how Deadeye is an OP card because it allows low PS Jousters to not just get dominated by aces that can abuse the low PS TL acquisition problem, or that the combo of upgrades they use are too good, or that they're undercosted. They complain that U-Boats are point and shoot and that all they require is the ability to fly at your opponent and focus, meanwhile all of their Acewings have green hard turns and the ability to do 3 actions a turn with a support ship carrying hyper C-3PO. Imperial players complaining about undercosted ships with upgrades that super combo together, let that sink in for a moment.

I have an idea, if all you have to do to beat Palp Aces is get good and block, why don't you just do that against U-Boats bro? If they don't have their focus they're not firing their torpedoes brah.

Let me get this into a list for you:

- Palp Aces = OP

- Turrets = evil

- Shield regen = Satan himself

- All rebel players = noobz & no skill

- Haters of U-Boats -> get gud noobz

Signed PGS, No further comment!

Palp Aces is OP.

Turrets are evil and take no skill.

Regen is an awful NPE based mechanic.

No competitive rebel list since wave 4 has required skill besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z) and Paul Heaver's 2015 world's list. So that's correct, all rebel players are no skill noobs besides for B-Wing players and Paul Heaver.

I'd disagree on what you'd think of my opinion of haters of U-Boats. I agree that they're OP. I just disagree that they need to be nerfed because other lists like Palp Aces are just as broken. I'd also be perfectly fine with a U-Boat nerf (such as making Deadeye unique) if Palp Aces was also nerfed, by making Palpatine epic game only or making bank boost give you a stress token like Daredevil or LT. Lorrir's bank barrel roll. Or if Palpatine was in arc, range 1-5 only, he comes on a ship that comes with the huge ship range ruler, so that's not a problem.

The comment at the end of my post about how players need to just get gud and block U-Boats was meant as a parody of greedy Imperial players that tell you that Soontir isn't OP because all you need to do is block him, even though with only 4 naked agility dice and Palpatine he has a 48% chance of taking no damage from a 3/3 hit attack. That's IF you get 3 hits.

Let me explain it yet again for you! Maybe this time you'll get it.

Palp Aces are so dominant Right now BECAUSE of U-Boats. They just prevent the Rebel (and any other medium hitpoint agility 1-2 based) lists that kept Palp Aces in check before from being played!

Therefore if they get rid of U-Boats, Palp Aces will stay a good list, but it won't come near the pick and win rate it has now! Which would be much better than what we see now!

I don't care if there was more variety in the wave 7 meta (there wasn't, but for the sake of argument), you were just getting pounded by multiple different top tier NPE-based lists instead of just one or two like we have now.

If PalpAces was nerfed there would be a ton more variety in this game.

U-Boats are so powerful BECAUSE of Palp Aces. If all I had to deal with all day were U-Boats, I would feel confident with triple Black Eight Squadron, 3 of the PS 4 Punishers. Would I take that against Palp Aces? **** no.

Since I only have two people in my area, and play in vassal.

Are uBoats so popular because of Palpatine Aces?

Or are aces so popular because they can handle the uBoats well.

Dont have a lot of experience with the two facing each other

Since I only have two people in my area, and play in vassal.

Are uBoats so popular because of Palpatine Aces?

Or are aces so popular because they can handle the uBoats well.

Dont have a lot of experience with the two facing each other

Aces are popular, because they handle U-Boats and any potential other counters, making them dominant.

Palp came before and started dominating as soon as he was available

U-boats are one of VERY FEW things that can punch through palp aces

Due to them using raw red dice versus automatic damage, they tend to annhilate everything else even more easily

On the flip side, "everything else" was already outdone by TLTs the wave prior. TLTs could hurt palp due to dice independent stress (tactician and r3a2). Torpscouts ate the TLTs though

Before that, it was the 2 ship era of boring as **** fat pwt + ace (both before and after phantom cloak errata)

Only the tie fighter, hilariously enough, has been more or less consistently present. They dropped off hard during the dark ages but wave 7 crackshot brought them back in force

Tie fighters and jumpies seem to be the only jousters capable of hitting aces. Problem is everything is easier to hit than an ace, and both jm5ks and crackswarm will annhilate those things (hell crackswarm can mulch jumpies before they shoot!)

Already made a MASSIVE. post about this, but it's basically

Jousters have more health per points than aces

Ace defensive tech (token stacking with thrusters and palp) are far more effective than any amount of health

Automatic damage or ABTs counter aces without punishing jousters asmuch. This is because def tech doesn't matter; only health does

Loads of modded red dice (crackswarm/jm5ks) cam hurt aces but just hurt jousters worse (cause def tech still >>>>>>>>> health)

In both cases the problem is jousters can't deal with modded dice. Fix this and you fix jousters, theoretically

I feel like Scouts are portrayed to be a lot less skill based than they are. I play against a guy and I feel like there were a million times he could have made much better choices eg: Blocking. So I would be more inclined to say that scouts do require more skill than you would expect. Just my opinion obviously...

I feel like Scouts are portrayed to be a lot less skill based than they are. I play against a guy and I feel like there were a million times he could have made much better choices eg: Blocking. So I would be more inclined to say that scouts do require more skill than you would expect. Just my opinion obviously...

it is a good opinion to an extent

against the game pieces that have the means to stand up to them, scouts are very skill-centric. They're large base, arc dependent, action dependent low PS ships

thing that people don't think, which is understandable, is flying something that doesn't have the means to stand up to them. Take the PS 2 B-wing, for example. It cannot race into their face to deny them actions, it cannot arc-dodge them well at all and its even lower PS. Two shots from torps is enough to blow a b-wing apart in short order, not much good flying required there and little the B-wing can do about it

not really the fault of the scout, though.the b-wing was flagging hard after TLTs and palp anyway

No competitive rebel list since wave 4 has required skill besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z) and Paul Heaver's 2015 world's list.

It's good you singled out The Heave's list as skill-based. Otherwise I'd have to come to your lair and give you a wedgie.

I feel like Scouts are portrayed to be a lot less skill based than they are. I play against a guy and I feel like there were a million times he could have made much better choices eg: Blocking. So I would be more inclined to say that scouts do require more skill than you would expect. Just my opinion obviously...

I believe it's not that Scouts are easy to fly, they are just a lot more forgiving than a lot of ships out there. Pretty much there ae two things you need to do in a Scout and they are 1; Stay in arc and 2; Don't fly on an asteroid.

I feel like Scouts are portrayed to be a lot less skill based than they are. I play against a guy and I feel like there were a million times he could have made much better choices eg: Blocking. So I would be more inclined to say that scouts do require more skill than you would expect. Just my opinion obviously...

I believe it's not that Scouts are easy to fly, they are just a lot more forgiving than a lot of ships out there. Pretty much there ae two things you need to do in a Scout and they are 1; Stay in arc and 2; Don't fly on an asteroid.

Thats a pretty difficult thing, thogh, with how much repositioning is in the meta. I believe this is the most important thing where U-Boats don't get enough credit.

Since I only have two people in my area, and play in vassal.

Are uBoats so popular because of Palpatine Aces?

Or are aces so popular because they can handle the uBoats well.

Dont have a lot of experience with the two facing each other

Aces are popular, because they handle U-Boats and any potential other counters, making them dominant.

The times I've played U-Boats I've played them because they have the offense to punch through Acewings while also being a general purpose squad. I don't like being screwed by matchups, and if I brought 5x Autoblaster Turret Gold Squadron and got matched against a Super Dash I'd be pretty frustrated.

There's also don't bump or fly into debris

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****. FFG screwed up by giving the CS an EPT. That's all that matters. They created an NPE unit intentionally or otherwise.

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****.

yes it does, otherwise you're back at wave 5 with auto-pilot fat PWTs

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****. FFG screwed up by giving the CS an EPT. That's all that matters. They created an NPE unit intentionally or otherwise.

Let's take away its EPT slot, so that by the time it has a Palp Ace locked and in arc it has already lost a ship. God forbid a jouster actually be good.

How about we make Palpatine epic game only?

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****.

yes it does, otherwise you're back at wave 5 with auto-pilot fat PWTs

Look, if you can win a tournament I'll give you all the props you deserve. But I have very little respect right now for the playtesters and developers that let the CS get past them.

How about we make Palpatine epic game only?

I think it's funny how we've gone from "8 points to modify a single roll?!" to "Epic game only" in a year.

Tom Reed just won the final of the Italian Open against his brother, Scott. Both flew out from the UK and both are great guys and very good players. Both were flying triple boats. Very well done to both of them.

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****. FFG screwed up by giving the CS an EPT. That's all that matters. They created an NPE unit intentionally or otherwise.

Let's take away its EPT slot, so that by the time it has a Palp Ace locked and in arc it has already lost a ship. God forbid a jouster actually be good.

How about we make Palpatine epic game only?

PGS you make me laugh so much. Elite talents and PS 3 go well together. I am going to have a look at what other bottom rate ship has an EPT.

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****. FFG screwed up by giving the CS an EPT. That's all that matters. They created an NPE unit intentionally or otherwise.

Let's take away its EPT slot, so that by the time it has a Palp Ace locked and in arc it has already lost a ship. God forbid a jouster actually be good.

How about we make Palpatine epic game only?

PGS you make me laugh so much. Elite talents and PS 3 go well together. I am going to have a look at what other bottom rate ship has an EPT.

Green Squadron A-Wings have two.

It was rather that... Scum had lists that could win tournaments on a regular basis. Brobots, quad TLT and 2 TLT plus ace were in fact top lists that had good success.

If Brobots and TLTs were winning 'on a regular basis' (where on a regular basis in this context means something like once per 3-4 Rebel and 3-4 Imperial wins), then A-wing Crack Swarms and other Rebel lists are also winning on a regular basis, so I where's the issue then?

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****. FFG screwed up by giving the CS an EPT. That's all that matters. They created an NPE unit intentionally or otherwise.

Let's take away its EPT slot, so that by the time it has a Palp Ace locked and in arc it has already lost a ship. God forbid a jouster actually be good.

How about we make Palpatine epic game only?

PGS you make me laugh so much. Elite talents and PS 3 go well together. I am going to have a look at what other bottom rate ship has an EPT.

Green Squadron A-Wings have two.

They have 1, can access 2.

Doesn't matter if it takes a little bit of careful flying to not step on your own ****. FFG screwed up by giving the CS an EPT. That's all that matters. They created an NPE unit intentionally or otherwise.

Let's take away its EPT slot, so that by the time it has a Palp Ace locked and in arc it has already lost a ship. God forbid a jouster actually be good.

How about we make Palpatine epic game only?

PGS you make me laugh so much. Elite talents and PS 3 go well together. I am going to have a look at what other bottom rate ship has an EPT.

Green Squadron A-Wings have two.

They have 1, can access 2.

You can consider they have 2 for all intents and purposes. A-wing test pilot costs 0 and doesn't compete with anything for the title slot. Barring card availability there's no reason not to use it.