One question addressed to everyone thinking Contracted Scout shouldn't have an EPT, or Deadeye should be unique or anything else that would make triple Scout as we know it impossible:

In such a situation what could Scum field that would be able to fight on equal footing with Palp Aces, Crack Swarms and Rebel Regen/Stresshogs plus Dash Ghost builds?

There are lots of really dangerous Scum builds. A friend of mine played a combo of Fett and a Punishing One that was really hard to beat. And it had nothing to do with torps, deadeye, or any astromechs. It was that he was really good at abusing the barrel roll on the JM3k. He'd fly straight up, barrel roll out of arc and then nail me with 4 dice at range 1. And since the ship has a good dial, it's hard to predict. And that's probably how the designers meant for the ship to be played.

Here's the deal, the ENTIRE purpose of a point based system is to make it so the group of ships on either side of the table are approximately equal and that it's mostly up to player skill (planning moves, strategy, ect) to decide the game. Sure, there's a list design element to the game in finding the best synergies between abilities and ships, but most of those synergies also require skill and strategy to execute.

An honestly, if you use strategy, you can beat 3xJM3k with most competitive lists. Starting with asteroid placement. They're large base ships, and there's 3 of them. It's not hard to place asteroids to make flying 3 large base ships more difficult. The second that helps against them is to spread your ships out. 3xJM3k is super deadly because they can get you into a position where 2 or 3 ships are firing torps at a single ship, and you counter that by spreading out your ships so they have to worry about more than one group to target. After all, you're going to place your ships on the map after the 3xJM3k most of the time.

But honestly, it's literally just the EPT slot that bothers me. Take that away and I wouldn't call 3xJM3k easy mode because you'd actually have to use some skill to target lock and then get your torps off since you are flying a low PS ship.

'Poe absolutely needed to be PS9 after TFA'

Why? He would still be the best pilot in the TFA timeframe at PS8 as well, since there would be nobody (but the new Han, which can be argued whether he still deserves PS9 as he does precious little flying in TFA) with a higher PS than 8.

EDIT: Outside TFA time frame, looking at what flying Vader does in Rebels (and corroborate that with Anakin's flying in the prequels) I have a hard time seeing Poe being as good as Vader.

Because he's visibly better on-screen than pretty much anyone else in the movies? His one pass in the battle of takodana definitely beats anything anyone else does in the OT. Been a while since I watched the prequels but don't recall anything quite as impressive there either. Also, since the FO is getting a PS9 in wave 9...

'Poe absolutely needed to be PS9 after TFA'

Why? He would still be the best pilot in the TFA timeframe at PS8 as well, since there would be nobody (but the new Han, which can be argued whether he still deserves PS9 as he does precious little flying in TFA) with a higher PS than 8.

Because given his incredible performance throughout the entire movie(the part where he shot down 10 TIE/FOs in a continuous string, or when he flew into and out of a hole just barely big enough for his X-Wing and hit every target inside with perfect aim), PS8 felt like a crime. Poe was the best pilot in the entire resistance, better than anything the First Order had on their own base of operations. Possibly even the best in the galaxy.

He would still be best in the galaxy at PS8 as well since First Order has no PS9, would he not?

What I dislike about it is that it sets a bad precedent of changing card stats, especially since IMO it wasn't needed.

See above about the FO getting a PS9 in wave 9. And it was definitely needed. FFG just didn't have the info needed ahead of time to know that Poe was that good.

What exactly is "U boats"

U-Boats in the context of X-Wing is a name for a list featuring three Jumpmasters carrying ordnance. They are typically pretty accurate and since they tend to fly in a fairly close formation and carry torpedoes they have been likened to a particular submarine used by the Germans during WW2 which was called the U-Boat and tended to operate in groups known as Wolf Packs. I believe that name was given to the U-Boat formations by their enemies. In X-Wing, the term U-Boats and Wolf Pack refer to the same list, though perhaps it could be argued that U-Boats refers to a list using only generic pilots while Wolf Pack would denote that one or more Jumpmasters in the list was a unique pilot.

And, you know, the ship is shaped like a U.

'Poe absolutely needed to be PS9 after TFA'

Why? He would still be the best pilot in the TFA timeframe at PS8 as well, since there would be nobody (but the new Han, which can be argued whether he still deserves PS9 as he does precious little flying in TFA) with a higher PS than 8.

EDIT: Outside TFA time frame, looking at what flying Vader does in Rebels (and corroborate that with Anakin's flying in the prequels) I have a hard time seeing Poe being as good as Vader.

Vader is the greatest pilot of all time in Star Wars. PS9 doesn't mean "equal to Vader" because no pilot in this game is equal to Vader. PS9 just means a pilot is in the highest echelon of skill.

Obi-wan said Anakin was the greatest pilot in the galaxy. i'm not sure that necessarily means he's the greatest pilot of "all time". And how do we know that he retained the same skill as robo-man?

One question addressed to everyone thinking Contracted Scout shouldn't have an EPT, or Deadeye should be unique or anything else that would make triple Scout as we know it impossible:

In such a situation what could Scum field that would be able to fight on equal footing with Palp Aces, Crack Swarms and Rebel Regen/Stresshogs plus Dash Ghost builds?

There are lots of really dangerous Scum builds. A friend of mine played a combo of Fett and a Punishing One that was really hard to beat. And it had nothing to do with torps, deadeye, or any astromechs. It was that he was really good at abusing the barrel roll on the JM3k. He'd fly straight up, barrel roll out of arc and then nail me with 4 dice at range 1. And since the ship has a good dial, it's hard to predict. And that's probably how the designers meant for the ship to be played.

Here's the deal, the ENTIRE purpose of a point based system is to make it so the group of ships on either side of the table are approximately equal and that it's mostly up to player skill (planning moves, strategy, ect) to decide the game. Sure, there's a list design element to the game in finding the best synergies between abilities and ships, but most of those synergies also require skill and strategy to execute.

An honestly, if you use strategy, you can beat 3xJM3k with most competitive lists. Starting with asteroid placement. They're large base ships, and there's 3 of them. It's not hard to place asteroids to make flying 3 large base ships more difficult. The second that helps against them is to spread your ships out. 3xJM3k is super deadly because they can get you into a position where 2 or 3 ships are firing torps at a single ship, and you counter that by spreading out your ships so they have to worry about more than one group to target. After all, you're going to place your ships on the map after the 3xJM3k most of the time.

But honestly, it's literally just the EPT slot that bothers me. Take that away and I wouldn't call 3xJM3k easy mode because you'd actually have to use some skill to target lock and then get your torps off since you are flying a low PS ship.

This is pretty much what most people who have an issue with the Contracted Scout, not the JM5K, have said. Their issue is a PS 3 missile boat has access to an EPT that increases it's action economy way out of proportion for the 1 point you pay for that EPT. It's low PS isnt really an issue as all you need to be in arc and you can shoot. Your ability to fly well isn't such a big problem for the Scout as you pretty much only need to avoid landing on asteroids to take advantage of the Deadeye EPT. Also the Scout is extremely difficult to one shot, even if it has 1 HP left, crits aside, it is as good as a straight out of the shop JM5K firepower wise. I would be more than happy with the Con Scout if it didnt have an EPT slot.

There were people that were constantly whining about Shield regen and Stresshogs. I knew why back then. Because they are just imperial bandwagoners that don't actually want a balanced game. FFG did them the favor of shutting out these lists from the meta by introducing the Scout, and that made the meta go from a pretty balanced one to an imperial dominated one.

Where exactly was your 'pretty balanced meta' in regard to Scum?

IIRC only good list we had was Brobots, and that was still not winning as much as Rebels and Imperials. Worlds 2015 had 20% or so Scum lists at start, and only 2 in the cut. Not so pretty balanced if you ask me.

That is actually a huge difference!

There were people that were constantly whining about Shield regen and Stresshogs. I knew why back then. Because they are just imperial bandwagoners that don't actually want a balanced game. FFG did them the favor of shutting out these lists from the meta by introducing the Scout, and that made the meta go from a pretty balanced one to an imperial dominated one.

Where exactly was your 'pretty balanced meta' in regard to Scum?

IIRC only good list we had was Brobots, and that was still not winning as much as Rebels and Imperials. Worlds 2015 had 20% or so Scum lists at start, and only 2 in the cut. Not so pretty balanced if you ask me.

There was Brobots, Quad TLT and 2TLT plus an expensive ship. Aside from Worlds they won some major Tournaments, and on worlds they underperformed by very little. I think it was not even statistically relevant!

Scum getting 2/16 lists (12.5%) in top 16 and getting 20%ish (was 22% or so IIRC) participation numbers instead of 33% that should be the desired point is 'unperformed by very little' in your view ?

Rebels are currently also winning 'some major tournaments' (aka several Regionals). Just not nearly as much as Empire and Scum (much like Scum did before).

There were people that were constantly whining about Shield regen and Stresshogs. I knew why back then. Because they are just imperial bandwagoners that don't actually want a balanced game. FFG did them the favor of shutting out these lists from the meta by introducing the Scout, and that made the meta go from a pretty balanced one to an imperial dominated one.

Where exactly was your 'pretty balanced meta' in regard to Scum?

IIRC only good list we had was Brobots, and that was still not winning as much as Rebels and Imperials. Worlds 2015 had 20% or so Scum lists at start, and only 2 in the cut. Not so pretty balanced if you ask me.

There was Brobots, Quad TLT and 2TLT plus an expensive ship. Aside from Worlds they won some major Tournaments, and on worlds they underperformed by very little. I think it was not even statistically relevant!

Scum getting 2/16 lists (12.5%) in top 16 and getting 20%ish (was 22% or so IIRC) participation numbers instead of 33% that should be the desired point is 'unperformed by very little' in your view ?

Rebels are currently also winning 'some major tournaments' (aka several Regionals). Just not nearly as much as Empire and Scum (much like Scum did before).

Now how is this different from Rebels now you might ask? Well, because Scum was the newest faction and had not won the same playerbase back then, and what we see now is that Rebel participation in tournaments and at the same time Rebel victories are just plummeting.

I.E. This means Scum was underrepresented for a very different reason than Rebels are now! Rebels were the most widely played faction since X-Wing started, and that was the case even when Phantoms took over the meta. Now, we are looking at a swingback, and the only possible explanation for that is that they are not competitive right now.

And my 2cents on this: It's must be due to U-Boats. People just don't stop liking the Rebel faction or ship design, they just realize they are not cutting it at the moment!

On a purely subjective base:

I say just get rid of this **** toilet seats! Just to take away the scout's EPT would already be sufficient! Send us some Tipp-ex, i don't even want a reprint! XD. I bought some J5ks myself, FFG, i don't want a refund if you nerf it into oblivion! It breaks the game balance in a very unhealthy way and the Contracted scout in the way it was introduced was just a mistake! Playtesting can fail and it did in this case! No shame in admitting this!

It's overpowered not in a general way, but against most Rebel ships (and most other scum ships for that instance). You can't fight it with B-Eings, Y-Wings, both X-Wing Variants, Falcons, K-Wings, Attack shuttles, HWKs, Z-95s and even Dash has a very hard time. E-Wings and A-Wings need 2-3 superb green rolls to stand a chance and the Lothal Rebel is just okay because it cam soak up 4-5 Torps before dying! There is absolutely no Rebel List that does better than 60/40 against scouts, and these are ususally then totally useless against other squads!

Scum was never in such a position, not on Worlds and not before!

What stands against it is just ships that can consistently outmaneuver them while at the same time being capable of evading 3-4 hits once or twice a turn. In other Words long live the Emperor and his most loyal subjects!

I know there are people that like this situation, but i sure don't, even if i like flying PalpAces myself.

So if you think like me just get vocal on these forums, don't shy away from the usual naysayers here, because you know it better!

I think a lot of the reason why there aren't as many top tier Rebel lists is cost.

Dash Ghost

Double Ghost + Biggs or Y-Wing

Or 5x Green Squadron, 5x Autothrusters, 5x Adaptability, 5x Crackshot

Not everyone wants to fly Dash.

Most rebel players aren't willing to get a second ghost.

Most players don't have 5 A-Wings, 2 Rebel Aces (which cover 2 A-Wings) for the 5 refits, 5 kirahxzes/hounds teeth for the 5 Crackshots, and they sure as hell don't have 3 Mist Hunters.

I think a lot of the reason why there aren't as many top tier Rebel lists is cost.

Dash Ghost

Double Ghost + Biggs or Y-Wing

Or 5x Green Squadron, 5x Autothrusters, 5x Adaptability, 5x Crackshot

Not everyone wants to fly Dash.

Most rebel players aren't willing to get a second ghost.

Most players don't have 5 A-Wings, 2 Rebel Aces (which cover 2 A-Wings) for the 5 refits, 5 kirahxzes/hounds teeth for the 5 Crackshots, and they sure as hell don't have 3 Mist Hunters.

I have 5 crackshots (4 kihraxz and a hounds tooth), 3 mist hunters, 2 ghosts . And I think you actually need 3 rebel aces to get 5 refits (2 refits each right?). I only have2 a-wings.

I.E. This means Scum was underrepresented for a very different reason than Rebels are now! Rebels were the most widely played faction since X-Wing started, and that was the case even when Phantoms took over the meta. Now, we are looking at a swingback, and the only possible explanation for that is that they are not competitive right now.

And my 2cents on this: It's must be due to U-Boats. People just don't stop liking the Rebel faction or ship design, they just realize they are not cutting it at the moment!

Actually I think at the core level the situation is 90% the same. The way I see it, there are two main factors influencing faction choice: how much you like it (be it lore, playstyle or looks) and how good the faction is. How important each of them is varies from person to person. People who like Rebels, just like people who like Scum before are sticking to the faction and (legitimately in both cases) complaining. It's people who want to win (by that I mean those mainly interested in a faction's strength) that aren't. This is where the disproportionate loudness of the situation comes from: Scum was never top dog before, so it didn't really attract many competitive players. They had no horse in the 'Scum is underpowered' race so they stayed quiet. Rebels however were top dog for a long time (too long maybe?), so the competitive players now need to switch factions, invalidating both invested $ and time.

While as a mainly Scum player I feel for the Rebel players, I think that in the grand scheme of things it's better that things got shaken up a bit and it's not always Rebels that are the go-to faction if you want to win. Maybe this year we do get an Imperial or Scum win at Worlds instead of a 4th consecutive rebel win

I think a lot of the reason why there aren't as many top tier Rebel lists is cost.

Dash Ghost

Double Ghost + Biggs or Y-Wing

Or 5x Green Squadron, 5x Autothrusters, 5x Adaptability, 5x Crackshot

Not everyone wants to fly Dash.

Most rebel players aren't willing to get a second ghost.

Most players don't have 5 A-Wings, 2 Rebel Aces (which cover 2 A-Wings) for the 5 refits, 5 kirahxzes/hounds teeth for the 5 Crackshots, and they sure as hell don't have 3 Mist Hunters.

You need three Rebels Aces, because while there is 3 Refits per box, there is only 2 copies of Test Pilot.

You can't use pre-8 results as evidence of how scum are without the jumpys on their roster, as the faction as a whole changed and improved this wave a great deal. Mindlink, boba crew, our grand overlord 4lom crew, zuckuss mist hunter, dengar crew - these are huge huge buffs to the faction.

Even if the jumpy wasn't the meta-bending success it's proved to be, Scum would still have moved up the rankings considerably. Palob Zuckuss Bossk are three very competitive pilots right now, for example.

Just reading the Uboote List makes me feel like "they were never meant to be used this way".

Why do they get an automatic Target Lock (which Rebels can't use by the way) and can still use it during the same attack?

Why does a Level 3 UNNAMED ship have an Elite Skill anyway?

Miranda should have one! Horton Salm should have one! Not the Level 3 toilet seats

You can't use pre-8 results as evidence of how scum are without the jumpys on their roster, as the faction as a whole changed and improved this wave a great deal. Mindlink, boba crew, our grand overlord 4lom crew, zuckuss mist hunter, dengar crew - these are huge huge buffs to the faction.

Even if the jumpy wasn't the meta-bending success it's proved to be, Scum would still have moved up the rankings considerably. Palob Zuckuss Bossk are three very competitive pilots right now, for example.

On the other hand, in order to gauge a faction's tournament winning potential, one has to look at the absolute best squads a faction has to offer (nobody wins with average lists regularly). For pre-made 8 Scum that was Brobots (HLC Glittercrack being the best IMO, but that's beside the point). Brobots alone didn't quite cut it (get Scum on par with the other factions as far as tournament wins are concerned) and got no improvement in Wave 8 (Attani Mindlink and Tractor Beam are sidegrades most likely).

The question that would need to be answered in order to judge Scum's hypothetical performance without Triple Scouts is: can they produce another squad that equals or exceeds Brobots? I'm not the best list builder or meta theorist out there, but so far I have yet to see anything beyond ordnance Bossk/Dengar to show promise in this regard.

You can't use pre-8 results as evidence of how scum are without the jumpys on their roster, as the faction as a whole changed and improved this wave a great deal. Mindlink, boba crew, our grand overlord 4lom crew, zuckuss mist hunter, dengar crew - these are huge huge buffs to the faction.

Even if the jumpy wasn't the meta-bending success it's proved to be, Scum would still have moved up the rankings considerably. Palob Zuckuss Bossk are three very competitive pilots right now, for example.

Yes and no. On the one hand you are 100% right, Scum got many new and powerful tricks so as far as competitive options go it got better.

On the other hand, in order to gauge a faction's tournament winning potential, one has to look at the absolute best squads a faction has to offer (nobody wins with average lists regularly). For pre-made 8 Scum that was Brobots (HLC Glittercrack being the best IMO, but that's beside the point). Brobots alone didn't quite cut it (get Scum on par with the other factions as far as tournament wins are concerned) and got no improvement in Wave 8 (Attani Mindlink and Tractor Beam are sidegrades most likely).

The question that would need to be answered in order to judge Scum's hypothetical performance without Triple Scouts is: can they produce another squad that equals or exceeds Brobots? I'm not the best list builder or meta theorist out there, but so far I have yet to see anything beyond ordnance Bossk/Dengar to show promise in this regard.

That's the really sad part. I don't think Scum HAS another squad like this. Scum's performance in tournaments right now is owed almost entirely to U-Boats.

Empire is probably the most healthy faction because they have the most viable list options available. Palp Aces, Deci-Vader, Crackswarm, 3 Aces, soon to have Defenders to add to the mix as well.

Scum has U-Boats. Rebels have... well, nothing. There are some lists that have won or even made top 4 in some tournaments, but numerically speaking it doesnt really come close to competing with U-Boats or anything Empire has. So, i mean, as far as faction health goes, i would rate it as Empire, Scum, Rebels, because at least Scum has SOMETHING. I think that as soon as the mythical JM5k counter comes out it'll take Scum back to the bottom again though. Because, again, if the JM5k gets hard-countered, what else does Scum really have?

brobots Ys and ideally the wave 9 stuff

the JM5ks do represent such a steep jump in performance from the incredibly unreliable cast of generic pilots, especially Zs/Special-Ks/g1-as etc., both in capability (great dial with large, low PS barrel-roll for amazing blocking) and in mitigating variance for their offense, which is just the ruinous bane of any other jouster list I've ever flown

seriously gotten to the point where I just started flying them with Xizor.

All his other minions are just so freaking incompetent by comparison that they just leave a bad taste in your mouth, especially if it's just a Z or two in the late game. They just do so little against anything from aces to higher performing casual ships (lots of hardhitting Bossks around here) because there's so little you can feasibly do with them, because they're stiff, squishy, predictable and just underwhelming in every **** respect

the Jm5k, though, is just all around incredible. I'd be sad to see it culled utterly, as it's one of very few generics that can do toe to toe with bloated ships if you fly them well. Wish Bs/Zs etc. were even half as cool

You have seen the various Party Busses start to do well, right?

Mostly as an addition to U-Boat lists that techs against aces, though (still my favourite ship of wave 8).

N'dru

Kavil

YV-666

Zuckuss

4-lom

Dengar

Bossk

Palob

Aggressor

If you can't do something worthwhile with these building blocks, the fault is not in your tools.

N'dru

Kavil

YV-666

Zuckuss

4-lom

Dengar

Bossk

Palob

Aggressor

If you can't do something worthwhile with these building blocks, the fault is not in your tools.

I really feel like almost none of those options can even remotely stack up against the JM5K. They're just not as good. And as long as that remains the case, nobody is going use N'dru, or Kavil, or Palob, or 4-lom, or Bossk, because they are simply worse in nearly every regard. Dengar is already flying a U-Boat, Aggressors are still good but clearly not as good. You'd be an idiot to run something objectively worse in tournament just because it's not a U-Boat.

FFG wanted to make Scum an attractive option, and they took 2 or 3 steps too far. All they did was make everything else a worse option.

I still maintain that Palp Aces is just as broken, if not more so than U-Boats.

People are just mad that a squadron of jousters is actually playable. These people whining about how rebels aren't doing well in tournaments are just angry that they can't get 10 shields out of their 4 point upgrade by doing green maneuvers they were going to do anyways, or that their regenerating small base turret is no longer a meta staple. Rebel players deserve no sympathy, all of their staple lists since wave 4 have been based around turrets or regen or some other obnoxious NPE like "guessing" zero for C-3PO, using R2crew to regen a shield, and using an evade token to cancel 3 damage a turn and shut down any chance the other player has in the end game. Or Super Dash's ability to ignore literally everything interesting and challenging about this game. No rebel list has required any skill since wave 3 besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z). Doing a green 1 straight into my formation and just out damage mitigating my ships and then flying away to regen the damage you couldn't mitigate is not skill, neither are turrets of course. ***** about wave 8's lack of list diversity when every wave 7 rebel list had Poe and/or Miranda in it, K.

Then you have typical Imperial player greed, bitching about how Deadeye is an OP card because it allows low PS Jousters to not just get dominated by aces that can abuse the low PS TL acquisition problem, or that the combo of upgrades they use are too good, or that they're undercosted. They complain that U-Boats are point and shoot and that all they require is the ability to fly at your opponent and focus, meanwhile all of their Acewings have green hard turns and the ability to do 3 actions a turn with a support ship carrying hyper C-3PO. Imperial players complaining about undercosted ships with upgrades that super combo together, let that sink in for a moment.

I have an idea, if all you have to do to beat Palp Aces is get good and block, why don't you just do that against U-Boats bro? If they don't have their focus they're not firing their torpedoes brah.

I.E. This means Scum was underrepresented for a very different reason than Rebels are now! Rebels were the most widely played faction since X-Wing started, and that was the case even when Phantoms took over the meta. Now, we are looking at a swingback, and the only possible explanation for that is that they are not competitive right now.

And my 2cents on this: It's must be due to U-Boats. People just don't stop liking the Rebel faction or ship design, they just realize they are not cutting it at the moment!

Actually I think at the core level the situation is 90% the same. The way I see it, there are two main factors influencing faction choice: how much you like it (be it lore, playstyle or looks) and how good the faction is. How important each of them is varies from person to person. People who like Rebels, just like people who like Scum before are sticking to the faction and (legitimately in both cases) complaining. It's people who want to win (by that I mean those mainly interested in a faction's strength) that aren't. This is where the disproportionate loudness of the situation comes from: Scum was never top dog before, so it didn't really attract many competitive players. They had no horse in the 'Scum is underpowered' race so they stayed quiet. Rebels however were top dog for a long time (too long maybe?), so the competitive players now need to switch factions, invalidating both invested $ and time.

While as a mainly Scum player I feel for the Rebel players, I think that in the grand scheme of things it's better that things got shaken up a bit and it's not always Rebels that are the go-to faction if you want to win. Maybe this year we do get an Imperial or Scum win at Worlds instead of a 4th consecutive rebel win

Oh i can tell you there were some scum players very loud about their lack of good lists. (What was actually sad is that there were more Imp players complaining than scum, despite them having a lot of top tier lists themselves)

It was rather that... Scum had lists that could win tournaments on a regular basis. Brobots, quad TLT and 2 TLT plus ace were in fact top lists that had good success.

Rebels and Imps had more variation in capable lists however. Yes you heard correctly, Scum had 3 top lists and the others had more... Now we have some 3 top lists total, and that's why i am complaining, as i am not actually a Rebel player. I play all factions and i just want to see a diverse, balanced meta.

Here is a fact: Before last worlds, nobody had a clue which list would come out on top, my favorites were actually Palp Aces and Brobots. Heaver's winning list was actually a rare sight, i believe there was only one identical lust to his in the whole tournament and apart from him being a great player, nobody would have thought of his list as anywhere near overpowered. The absolutely stupid and unjustified whining about Stresshog and shield regen began only after his victory in the best balanced meta X-Wing had ever known since when? Wave 3?

If i had to make a prediction now which list would win worlds, i would say Palp Aces or U-Boats, and i would be right in what? 75% of cases if we look at regionals? That is not a balanced game anymore and the situation Scum was in and Rebels are in now are very different in my book!

I.E. This means Scum was underrepresented for a very different reason than Rebels are now! Rebels were the most widely played faction since X-Wing started, and that was the case even when Phantoms took over the meta. Now, we are looking at a swingback, and the only possible explanation for that is that they are not competitive right now.

And my 2cents on this: It's must be due to U-Boats. People just don't stop liking the Rebel faction or ship design, they just realize they are not cutting it at the moment!

Actually I think at the core level the situation is 90% the same. The way I see it, there are two main factors influencing faction choice: how much you like it (be it lore, playstyle or looks) and how good the faction is. How important each of them is varies from person to person. People who like Rebels, just like people who like Scum before are sticking to the faction and (legitimately in both cases) complaining. It's people who want to win (by that I mean those mainly interested in a faction's strength) that aren't. This is where the disproportionate loudness of the situation comes from: Scum was never top dog before, so it didn't really attract many competitive players. They had no horse in the 'Scum is underpowered' race so they stayed quiet. Rebels however were top dog for a long time (too long maybe?), so the competitive players now need to switch factions, invalidating both invested $ and time.

While as a mainly Scum player I feel for the Rebel players, I think that in the grand scheme of things it's better that things got shaken up a bit and it's not always Rebels that are the go-to faction if you want to win. Maybe this year we do get an Imperial or Scum win at Worlds instead of a 4th consecutive rebel win

Oh i can tell you there were some scum players very loud about their lack of good lists. (What was actually sad is that there were more Imp players complaining than scum, despite them having a lot of top tier lists themselves)

It was rather that... Scum had lists that could win tournaments on a regular basis. Brobots, quad TLT and 2 TLT plus ace were in fact top lists that had good success.

Rebels and Imps had more variation in capable lists however. Yes you heard correctly, Scum had 3 top lists and the others had more... Now we have some 3 top lists total, and that's why i am complaining, as i am not actually a Rebel player. I play all factions and i just want to see a diverse, balanced meta.

Here is a fact: Before last worlds, nobody had a clue which list would come out on top, my favorites were actually Palp Aces and Brobots. Heaver's winning list was actually a rare sight, i believe there was only one identical lust to his in the whole tournament and apart from him being a great player, nobody would have thought of his list as anywhere near overpowered. The absolutely stupid and unjustified whining about Stresshog and shield regen began only after his victory in the best balanced meta X-Wing had ever known since when? Wave 3?

If i had to make a prediction now which list would win worlds, i would say Palp Aces or U-Boats, and i would be right in what? 75% of cases if we look at regionals? That is not a balanced game anymore and the situation Scum was in and Rebels are in now are very different in my book!

There are more options than just Palp Aces and U-Boats. This is the most diverse meta the game has ever had, and it would only get more diverse with the elimination of Palp Aces from the meta because then all of those PS 4 alpha strikers (besides for Crackswarm) can just feast on the U-Boats, and then a large variety of lists can match or exceed those.

You nerf U-Boats and you know what happens? Palp Aces vs. regen Poe meta with fat turrets and quad TLT. What a fun meta, every top tier list is based around some no-skill NPE mechanic.

Didn't we just get done bitching about how awful quad TLT was? Well it's completely evaporated from the meta.

I still maintain that Palp Aces is just as broken, if not more so than U-Boats.

People are just mad that a squadron of jousters is actually playable. These people whining about how rebels aren't doing well in tournaments are just angry that they can't get 10 shields out of their 4 point upgrade by doing green maneuvers they were going to do anyways, or that their regenerating small base turret is no longer a meta staple. Rebel players deserve no sympathy, all of their staple lists since wave 4 have been based around turrets or regen or some other obnoxious NPE like "guessing" zero for C-3PO, using R2crew to regen a shield, and using an evade token to cancel 3 damage a turn and shut down any chance the other player has in the end game. Or Super Dash's ability to ignore literally everything interesting and challenging about this game. No rebel list has required any skill since wave 3 besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z). Doing a green 1 straight into my formation and just out damage mitigating my ships and then flying away to regen the damage you couldn't mitigate is not skill, neither are turrets of course. ***** about wave 8's lack of list diversity when every wave 7 rebel list had Poe and/or Miranda in it, K.

Then you have typical Imperial player greed, bitching about how Deadeye is an OP card because it allows low PS Jousters to not just get dominated by aces that can abuse the low PS TL acquisition problem, or that the combo of upgrades they use are too good, or that they're undercosted. They complain that U-Boats are point and shoot and that all they require is the ability to fly at your opponent and focus, meanwhile all of their Acewings have green hard turns and the ability to do 3 actions a turn with a support ship carrying hyper C-3PO. Imperial players complaining about undercosted ships with upgrades that super combo together, let that sink in for a moment.

I have an idea, if all you have to do to beat Palp Aces is get good and block, why don't you just do that against U-Boats bro? If they don't have their focus they're not firing their torpedoes brah.

Let me get this into a list for you:

- Palp Aces = OP

- Turrets = evil

- Shield regen = Satan himself

- All rebel players = noobz & no skill

- Haters of U-Boats -> get gud noobz

Signed PGS, No further comment!

I still maintain that Palp Aces is just as broken, if not more so than U-Boats.

People are just mad that a squadron of jousters is actually playable. These people whining about how rebels aren't doing well in tournaments are just angry that they can't get 10 shields out of their 4 point upgrade by doing green maneuvers they were going to do anyways, or that their regenerating small base turret is no longer a meta staple. Rebel players deserve no sympathy, all of their staple lists since wave 4 have been based around turrets or regen or some other obnoxious NPE like "guessing" zero for C-3PO, using R2crew to regen a shield, and using an evade token to cancel 3 damage a turn and shut down any chance the other player has in the end game. Or Super Dash's ability to ignore literally everything interesting and challenging about this game. No rebel list has required any skill since wave 3 besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z). Doing a green 1 straight into my formation and just out damage mitigating my ships and then flying away to regen the damage you couldn't mitigate is not skill, neither are turrets of course. ***** about wave 8's lack of list diversity when every wave 7 rebel list had Poe and/or Miranda in it, K.

Then you have typical Imperial player greed, bitching about how Deadeye is an OP card because it allows low PS Jousters to not just get dominated by aces that can abuse the low PS TL acquisition problem, or that the combo of upgrades they use are too good, or that they're undercosted. They complain that U-Boats are point and shoot and that all they require is the ability to fly at your opponent and focus, meanwhile all of their Acewings have green hard turns and the ability to do 3 actions a turn with a support ship carrying hyper C-3PO. Imperial players complaining about undercosted ships with upgrades that super combo together, let that sink in for a moment.

I have an idea, if all you have to do to beat Palp Aces is get good and block, why don't you just do that against U-Boats bro? If they don't have their focus they're not firing their torpedoes brah.

Let me get this into a list for you:

- Palp Aces = OP

- Turrets = evil

- Shield regen = Satan himself

- All rebel players = noobz & no skill

- Haters of U-Boats -> get gud noobz

Signed PGS, No further comment!

Turrets are evil and take no skill.

Regen is an awful NPE based mechanic.

No competitive rebel list since wave 4 has required skill besides for Panic Attack/BBBB(Z) and Paul Heaver's 2015 world's list. So that's correct, all rebel players are no skill noobs besides for B-Wing players and Paul Heaver.

I'd disagree on what you'd think of my opinion of haters of U-Boats. I agree that they're OP. I just disagree that they need to be nerfed because other lists like Palp Aces are just as broken. I'd also be perfectly fine with a U-Boat nerf (such as making Deadeye unique) if Palp Aces was also nerfed, by making Palpatine epic game only or making bank boost give you a stress token like Daredevil or LT. Lorrir's bank barrel roll. Or if Palpatine was in arc, range 1-5 only, he comes on a ship that comes with the huge ship range ruler, so that's not a problem.

The comment at the end of my post about how players need to just get gud and block U-Boats was meant as a parody of greedy Imperial players that tell you that Soontir isn't OP because all you need to do is block him, even though with only 4 naked agility dice and Palpatine he has a 48% chance of taking no damage from a 3/3 hit attack. That's IF you get 3 hits.

I.E. This means Scum was underrepresented for a very different reason than Rebels are now! Rebels were the most widely played faction since X-Wing started, and that was the case even when Phantoms took over the meta. Now, we are looking at a swingback, and the only possible explanation for that is that they are not competitive right now.

And my 2cents on this: It's must be due to U-Boats. People just don't stop liking the Rebel faction or ship design, they just realize they are not cutting it at the moment!

Actually I think at the core level the situation is 90% the same. The way I see it, there are two main factors influencing faction choice: how much you like it (be it lore, playstyle or looks) and how good the faction is. How important each of them is varies from person to person. People who like Rebels, just like people who like Scum before are sticking to the faction and (legitimately in both cases) complaining. It's people who want to win (by that I mean those mainly interested in a faction's strength) that aren't. This is where the disproportionate loudness of the situation comes from: Scum was never top dog before, so it didn't really attract many competitive players. They had no horse in the 'Scum is underpowered' race so they stayed quiet. Rebels however were top dog for a long time (too long maybe?), so the competitive players now need to switch factions, invalidating both invested $ and time.

While as a mainly Scum player I feel for the Rebel players, I think that in the grand scheme of things it's better that things got shaken up a bit and it's not always Rebels that are the go-to faction if you want to win. Maybe this year we do get an Imperial or Scum win at Worlds instead of a 4th consecutive rebel win

Oh i can tell you there were some scum players very loud about their lack of good lists. (What was actually sad is that there were more Imp players complaining than scum, despite them having a lot of top tier lists themselves)

It was rather that... Scum had lists that could win tournaments on a regular basis. Brobots, quad TLT and 2 TLT plus ace were in fact top lists that had good success.

Rebels and Imps had more variation in capable lists however. Yes you heard correctly, Scum had 3 top lists and the others had more... Now we have some 3 top lists total, and that's why i am complaining, as i am not actually a Rebel player. I play all factions and i just want to see a diverse, balanced meta.

Here is a fact: Before last worlds, nobody had a clue which list would come out on top, my favorites were actually Palp Aces and Brobots. Heaver's winning list was actually a rare sight, i believe there was only one identical lust to his in the whole tournament and apart from him being a great player, nobody would have thought of his list as anywhere near overpowered. The absolutely stupid and unjustified whining about Stresshog and shield regen began only after his victory in the best balanced meta X-Wing had ever known since when? Wave 3?

If i had to make a prediction now which list would win worlds, i would say Palp Aces or U-Boats, and i would be right in what? 75% of cases if we look at regionals? That is not a balanced game anymore and the situation Scum was in and Rebels are in now are very different in my book!

Isn't Crackshot swarm viable? Isn't Dash Ghost or double Ghost viable? 5 A-Wings with Crackshot? Brobots are still great.

There are more options than just Palp Aces and U-Boats. This is the most diverse meta the game has ever had, and it would only get more diverse with the elimination of Palp Aces from the meta because then all of those PS 4 alpha strikers (besides for Crackswarm) can just feast on the U-Boats, and then a large variety of lists can match or exceed those.

You nerf U-Boats and you know what happens? Palp Aces vs. regen Poe meta with fat turrets and quad TLT. What a fun meta, every top tier list is based around some no-skill NPE mechanic.

Didn't we just get done bitching about how awful quad TLT was? Well it's completely evaporated from the meta.

If there really were so many counters to U-Boats as you say, where are they? They would have been found right now, and they have not been!

Yes, nerf or counter U-Boats and return to a better and more diverse meta! That's what needs to happen and it will happen hopefully with wave 9! If we go to a wave 3 meta where jousters are the top choice with wave 9, i am totally fine with that, as long as there are multiple viable choices and as long as no faction is hosed as it is now!

You saying that the whole meta before was no-skill is just completely bonkers

And on top of that, for what did we exchange it? Palp Aces is still the same, and U-Boats? Do they require more skill than any ace squad? Don't make me laugh!