1.) I don't think many will disagree with you that U-Boats are easy to fly and win with. They clearly are. What we disagree with is that it's easier to fly than Palp Aces, and that Palp Aces takes a lot of skill, or that's it's vulernable to bad dice or (more) vulnerable to mistakes than U-Boats are.

2.) Sorry if this sounds like a personal attack, but I hate the way you (non-)format your posts, lol.

3.) Honestly I would fly quad Gamma Squadron, quad Homing Missiles, quad EM, quad guidance chips or even triple PS 4 Punisher if I didn't have to also deal with Palp Aces. You know what beats a PS 3 alpha strike? A PS 4 one.

Fantastic post, this exactly nails it!

You need to be just as good a player to win tournaments with U-Boats than with Palp Aces.

BUT:The problem with U-Boats and the actual difference to Palp Aces that makes Contracted Scouts so much worse in my opinion is that they just totally shut out too many other lists and limit options of what is playable and competitive! Amongst these things are most lists that could actually counter Palp Aces.

This goes a long way in enabling Palp Aces to be as dominant as they are at the moment! That is the true dilemma and why i think we need a hard counter to Scouts, not to Aces (because they do exist already in good numbers).

I think it goes both ways. Palp Aces crushes the U-Boat counters and U-Boats crush the Palp Ace counters.

There already are hard counters to U-Boats. Higher PS alpha strikes, from Talas or Gammas or whatever. Palp Aces gives these lists fits, with the ability to shrug off a 4/4 hit attack easily and the ability to arc dodge and close to range 1. There is no Feedback Array, R5-P8, Autoblaster, etc. for U-Boats, nor should there be. Last time the game was ruined by something, FFG introduced an autoinclude fix card and now we can't damage things at range 3 anymore.

It is nice to actually discuss ordnance and how it seems effective. However it's sad that it's effective on only one ship.

One ship that it really shouldn't be as effective on as others.

Apparently Alex said wave 9 will have some hard counters to uBoats. What that is we don't know, but all I can say is it better effects the ship and not ordnance itself.

If the counter effects ordnance then it'll not only hurt uBoats but other ships as well. Bombers and punishers.

I also feel that in a way by Alex saying this they acknowledge that uBoats are over powered. Has there been a wave yet that released one thing, and then in the next wave had to release a hard counter to it. This game shouldn't operate like that imo.

I want to see punishers become useful. Personally I like it. I think it looks freaking cool, same with bombers. Others may disagree but that's how I feel. The Punisher is a heavy bomber but my god the amount of pts you put into it to make it work is nuts when you compare it to a scout.

Maybe the Punisher and scout points be reverse? Idk but it's not a direction in like.

I know errata is verboten, but if deadeye was either a) errata'd to small ship only, or b)banned from use because of unforeseen issues, that would go some measure towards fixing this whole mess. To be honest, the same with palpatine.
just drop an 'epic only' in there.

as it stands, adding 'hard counters' is such a frustrating way to play things, because yes, those ships fall out of the meta. But what happens when the meta shifts again, and you start running into them again? Or casually? They haven't gotten worse in the meantime. And that means you'll need to tailor your list to having the threat of dealing with u-boats on a long-term, permanent basis, which just restricts your options.

and finally, we have a waiting cycle of months of dealing with the problem until the 'fix' arrives.

We have a whole half year basically (or longer) until u-boats and palp aces are meaningfully dealt with? yeesh!

Dunno, messy situation.

Deadeye is the easy fix, but the Jumpmaster is too strong. Cheap, amazing dial, PWT, barrel roll, loads of available slots. Cost needs to go up or upgrades need to go away or both. Hell, push the white sloop to the title while you're at it.

Deadeye is the easy fix, but the Jumpmaster is too strong. Cheap, amazing dial, PWT, barrel roll, loads of available slots. Cost needs to go up or upgrades need to go away or both. Hell, push the white sloop to the title while you're at it.

For what it does, it's just so **** cheap. Really why take anything else? You have a ship that has a great dial, white s loop? Sure. Yes it's only one direction, but that can be planned out. Barrel roll? Friggen right. On a large base at that. The amount of missles this thing can carry and with such accuracy. Two evade dice with 9 hp. All for what 33 pts? The cost is just to good for what it does.

When comparing generics, not named why bother try to build a squad with rookie xwing, or blue Squadron, mandalorian mercy, bounty hunter...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like with the amount of ships we have to choose the Jumpmaster is almost a ship to choose over many

@ citruscanon

I almost feel the same way, but if you nerf a card like deadeye then your not punishing just the uBoats, but other ships as well, like maybe Gamma Vets once they are out.

The problem isn't with the upgrade itself, it's the options and point cost of a specific ship. It's like punishing others by association if you start making cards like dead eye limited. The only way if you did that is as you said limit it to small ships. Big ships shouldn't need it anyway lol. Deadeye just seems like something a fighter pilot would use, not someone flying a freighter, transport or escort ship.

The problem with Palpatine is if you take him out then your punishing a ship that without it doesn't stand a chance against other pwt ships. Before Palpatine came along aces were around, but no where near abundant. That's because we had the fat Han And dash builds. Autothrusters helped, but still that want enough for when your dice blanked out. For a ship that has 3hp one dmg is a third of your hp. On a ship with 10+ health, that's a drop in the bucket.

...And yes unfortunately these things are going to be prevalent for awhile now, because we won't see any change until wave 9. Imperial veterans isn't going to change the uBoat factor and if anything just add to the ace side of things.

I feel ffg really messed up this time around. As said before it's not the players thought, but the designers. You can't really blame someone if they choose one or the other because what they have to offer. They are strong. Good players choose them because they know enough to see its strong. Weak players will choose it because it makes them feel they can do well, which in some cases they can.

This leads us to a very boring meta. I really hope our regionals doesn’t see 10-20 people all running near identical squads, because that just gets boring. Hell I'd be lying if even I said I didn't consider going tripple uBoats. As much as o hate them, I can't not argue the fact they are strong. I however don't want to be that guy though. I have a list that's pretty well decided, and some top contender lists, two are Rebels, and two are Imperials

Deadeye is the easy fix, but the Jumpmaster is too strong. Cheap, amazing dial, PWT, barrel roll, loads of available slots. Cost needs to go up or upgrades need to go away or both. Hell, push the white sloop to the title while you're at it.

The Jumpmaster's dial is insane. Just compare it to the YT-2400, a dial people already called one of the best in the game.

Jumpmaster 5000

YT-2400

In exchange for the loss of 3 hard turns, the Jumpmaster gets green hard 1 and 2 turns to the left and 3 speed Sloops, including a white Segnor's Loop. People were worried about the asymmetrical dial making the ship predictable, yet frankly the Jumpmaster turns right better than most other large ships in X-Wing.

Deadeye is the easy fix, but the Jumpmaster is too strong. Cheap, amazing dial, PWT, barrel roll, loads of available slots. Cost needs to go up or upgrades need to go away or both. Hell, push the white sloop to the title while you're at it.

The Jumpmaster's dial is insane. Just compare it to the YT-2400, a dial people already called one of the best in the game.

In exchange for the loss of 3 hard turns, it gets green hard 1 and 2 turns to the left and 3 speed Sloops, including a white Segnor's Loop. People were worried about the asymmetrical dial making it predictable, yet frankly the Jumpmaster turns right better than most other large ships in X-Wing.

This is the most baffling thing to me. It started with the Falcon, and bled into the YT-2400, the Aggressor, the Jumpmaster. Why are these ships getting such incredible dials? You're telling me that the falcon, which in the film does big graceful loops MULTIPLE times, has a tighter turning radius than an X-wing?

The Aggressor I can possibly understand, that there is no red maneuvers, however flying the Falcon, Jumpmaster, Outrider, I feel like I'm flying a giant rocket chair. Which happens to also be able to barrel roll. When these ships can barrel roll, they can literally fly backwards. it's completely bonkers.

Sometimes I seriously wonder if there is a chunk of the developer team that just frankly prefers playing large ships over small ones.

I think the team does great work in how it comes up with how to translate these ships into a 2D, game format. But this consistently baffles me.

I think my take is probably a little on the extreme side, but I don't think ANY ship should have a hard 1 that is better than a red. It's the only maneuver which makes me feel like I'm not flying ships, but instead employing subspace teleporters. Especially on large ships.

The Jumpmaster's dial is insane. Just compare it to the YT-2400, a dial people already called one of the best in the game.

In exchange for the loss of 3 hard turns, it gets green hard 1 and 2 turns to the left and 3 speed Sloops, including a white Segnor's Loop. People were worried about the asymmetrical dial making it predictable, yet frankly the Jumpmaster turns right better than most other large ships in X-Wing.

This is the most baffling thing to me. It started with the Falcon, and bled into the YT-2400, the Aggressor, the Jumpmaster. Why are these ships getting such incredible dials? You're telling me that the falcon, which in the film does big graceful loops MULTIPLE times, has a tighter turning radius than an X-wing?

The Aggressor I can possibly understand, that there is no red maneuvers, however flying the Falcon, Jumpmaster, Outrider, I feel like I'm flying a giant rocket chair. Which happens to also be able to barrel roll. When these ships can barrel roll, they can literally fly backwards. it's completely bonkers.

Sometimes I seriously wonder if there is a chunk of the developer team that just frankly prefers playing large ships over small ones.

I think the team does great work in how it comes up with how to translate these ships into a 2D, game format. But this consistently baffles me.

Here's a real laugh

Frank: My favorite ship from Wave VIII is definitely the Punishing One. First of all, it's called the JumpMaster 5000! How great is that? CamelCase and everything. Second, I have been wanting to have a ship that has an asymmetrical dial. In real life aviation, not every ship is perfectly capable of making any maneuver. The asymmetry of the ship design just means that it would naturally not be able to turn to the right as well as it can turn left. Its thrusters are not behind its center of balance. The ship would have to bank or flip in order for it to be able to turn the other way. I am so glad that the asymmetrical dial made it into the final version of the ship. It will be fun for players to try to predict their opponent's moves knowing that it has a preference for how it maneuvers, and it creates interesting decisions for the player flying the JumpMaster that start as early as setup.

Yeah, we sure can predict what this ship will do when stressed when it has green 1 and 2 speed turns and banks to the left, white 1 and 2 speed turns and banks to the right, green 1 and 2 speed straight maneuvers, and a freaking white S-Loop. I can imagine that dial leading to plenty of interesting decisions like "Okay, do I turn right with no drawbacks or do I turn left while moving better than a TIE Interceptor?" Oh yeah, and did I mention it's a turret?

Hell, compare the Jumpmaster's "predictable" dial to the G-1A's from the same wave.

Zuckuss and 4-LOM really got shortchanged in comparison to Dengar.

When comparing generics, not named why bother try to build a squad with rookie xwing, or blue Squadron, mandalorian mercy, bounty hunter...

Why do people keep comparing Contracted Scouts with stuff that's largely uncompetitive and then think it's a bad thing the scout is better than them?

If Contracted Scouts were as 'good' as x-wing rookies, you'd see them as often as x-wing rookies, aka once in a blue moon.

The Jumpmaster's dial is insane. Just compare it to the YT-2400, a dial people already called one of the best in the game.

In exchange for the loss of 3 hard turns, it gets green hard 1 and 2 turns to the left and 3 speed Sloops, including a white Segnor's Loop. People were worried about the asymmetrical dial making it predictable, yet frankly the Jumpmaster turns right better than most other large ships in X-Wing.

This is the most baffling thing to me. It started with the Falcon, and bled into the YT-2400, the Aggressor, the Jumpmaster. Why are these ships getting such incredible dials? You're telling me that the falcon, which in the film does big graceful loops MULTIPLE times, has a tighter turning radius than an X-wing?

The Aggressor I can possibly understand, that there is no red maneuvers, however flying the Falcon, Jumpmaster, Outrider, I feel like I'm flying a giant rocket chair. Which happens to also be able to barrel roll. When these ships can barrel roll, they can literally fly backwards. it's completely bonkers.

Sometimes I seriously wonder if there is a chunk of the developer team that just frankly prefers playing large ships over small ones.

I think the team does great work in how it comes up with how to translate these ships into a 2D, game format. But this consistently baffles me.

Here's a real laugh

Frank: My favorite ship from Wave VIII is definitely the Punishing One. First of all, it's called the JumpMaster 5000! How great is that? CamelCase and everything. Second, I have been wanting to have a ship that has an asymmetrical dial. In real life aviation, not every ship is perfectly capable of making any maneuver. The asymmetry of the ship design just means that it would naturally not be able to turn to the right as well as it can turn left. Its thrusters are not behind its center of balance. The ship would have to bank or flip in order for it to be able to turn the other way. I am so glad that the asymmetrical dial made it into the final version of the ship. It will be fun for players to try to predict their opponent's moves knowing that it has a preference for how it maneuvers, and it creates interesting decisions for the player flying the JumpMaster that start as early as setup.

Yeah, we sure can predict what this ship will do when stressed when it has green 1 and 2 speed turns and banks to the left, white 1 and 2 speed turns and banks to the right, green 1 and 2 speed straight maneuvers, and a freaking white S-Loop. I can imagine that dial leading to plenty of interesting decisions like "Okay, do I turn right with no drawbacks or do I turn left while moving better than a TIE Interceptor?" Oh yeah, and did I mention it's a turret?

Hell, compare the Jumpmaster's "predictable" dial to the G-1A's from the same wave.

Zuckuss and 4-LOM really got shortchanged in comparison to Dengar.

The jumpmaster is a poorly designed ship on multiple levels, and the retarded dial is a big one. Here's a quick fix for the dial. Turn all of the green moves white, turn all of the white moves red, remove all of the red moves. Left banks become green.

Can it be explained to me what builds U-Boats shoved out of the meta?

Stresshog.

Danger Zone (3x Tactician TLT K-Wing)

Quad TLT

Regen ships, like Poe, Corran, Miranda

What else? B-Wings? Everyone had already stopped playing those but okay.

These ships and builds have been replaced by:

Return of Super Dash

Dual Ghost squads. Rebel players have a 35 point Decimator with a systems slot and the evade action stop bitching.

Return of Biggs. R4-D6 forces your opponent to spend 3 torps to kill Biggs. Would you look at that, your opponent has to get through Biggs before they take out your regen ship or stresshog...

Wes Jansen is pretty cool.

Yeah, you can't play B-Wings anymore but you already couldn't, their jousting efficiency surpassed by Acewings befoRe U-Boats, and Acewings could arc dodge the B-Wings, so it was just better to fly TLT Y-Wings instead.

Quad TLT is dead. Is this really a bad thing?

Can it be explained to me what builds U-Boats shoved out of the meta?

Stresshog.

Danger Zone (3x Tactician TLT K-Wing)

Quad TLT

Regen ships, like Poe, Corran, Miranda

What else? B-Wings? Everyone had already stopped playing those but okay.

These ships and builds have been replaced by:

Return of Super Dash

Dual Ghost squads. Rebel players have a 35 point Decimator with a systems slot and the evade action stop bitching.

Return of Biggs. R4-D6 forces your opponent to spend 3 torps to kill Biggs. Would you look at that, your opponent has to get through Biggs before they take out your regen ship or stresshog...

Wes Jansen is pretty cool.

Yeah, you can't play B-Wings anymore but you already couldn't, their jousting efficiency surpassed by Acewings befoRe U-Boats, and Acewings could arc dodge the B-Wings, so it was just better to fly TLT Y-Wings instead.

Quad TLT is dead. Is this really a bad thing?

"Return of Super Dash"? He never left. Dash was showing up in plenty of top 8s before Wave 8.

Biggs lists have hardly filled in the void left by other Rebel lists disappearing. There's a reason Rebels in general have dropped so far in tournament appearance and success, even with the addition of the very competitive VCX-100.

Nobody's crying over quad TLT lists disappearing... Especially since those lists were generally made up of Syndicate Thugs instead of Gold Squadron Pilots.

When comparing generics, not named why bother try to build a squad with rookie xwing, or blue Squadron, mandalorian mercy, bounty hunter...

Why do people keep comparing Contracted Scouts with stuff that's largely uncompetitive and then think it's a bad thing the scout is better than them?

If Contracted Scouts were as 'good' as x-wing rookies, you'd see them as often as x-wing rookies, aka once in a blue moon.

If you read my post you'd have your answer

I'm comparing them because I'm saying why even bother taking the others over the scouts.

Why take generic Xwing when you can take a scout.

Yes generic xwing are very uncompetitive, so why even look at it?

At least some people may try, but it's so blatantly obvious that the scouts are better.

For all the stuff that's not competitive, I mean why even bother? The scout is just so much better, at this point they may S well rename the game jumpmaster 5000

Why bother trying to make two mandalorian mercs, when you can fit in three scouts.

Compare the costs of a scout to a generic bounty hunter.

Now compare all the stats, dial, options. Available, and again ask why even bother waste your time.

I mean If you really want to win games, then your why bother choosing a generic over a scout.

Not just xwing. Punishers, bombers, bwings. As it stands there will never be a reason to dust off these ships. Not if winning is what matters. If you just want to have fun, break out something that hasn't been used in awhile, but your opponent brings scouts, well you already know how this is going to end, so may as well save your time, shake hands and call it a day

It just such good value that unless you want to use a specific ship for fluff reasons or your just bored using the same thing. The scout is just much better. Looking at the cost of other generic pilots I feel they are just much to costly to consider for what they bring to the table

The fact that other ships are not competitive is completely unrelated to how good or bad scouts are. Rookies, blues, mando mercs and bounty hunters were ALREADY out of he meta and never used even before wave 8. Geting a new generic thats actually worth playing changed exactly nothing where already obsolete ships are concerned. You might as well compare them to scyks and the kihraxz. Why ever use those instead of scouts? Oh wait, no one used them anyway. The only common scum builds you saw were brobots and quad tlt. Now, we still have brobots, pretty sure i saw quad tlt won a regional, we have uboats, we have party busses, theres more scum options than ever.

On the other hand, other generics that are actually decent still show up. Black squadron pilots are everywhere. Academies are still showing up some. Greens have actually made a resurgance. Lothal rebels are common. The two generics pushed out most by uboats are the y-wing (which everybody raged about anyway) and the k-wing, which is still decent, just not against alpha strikes.

When comparing generics, not named why bother try to build a squad with rookie xwing, or blue Squadron, mandalorian mercy, bounty hunter...

Why do people keep comparing Contracted Scouts with stuff that's largely uncompetitive and then think it's a bad thing the scout is better than them?

If Contracted Scouts were as 'good' as x-wing rookies, you'd see them as often as x-wing rookies, aka once in a blue moon.

Why?

If you read my post you'd have your answer

I'm comparing them because I'm saying why even bother taking the others over the scouts.

Why take generic. Xwing when you can take a scout

Why bother trying to make two mandalorian mercs, when you can fit in three scouts.

Compare the costs of a scout to a generic bounty hunter.

Now compare all the stats, dial, options. Available, and again ask why even bother waste your time.

I mean If you really want to win games, then your why bother choosing a generic over a scout.

It just such good value that unless you want to use a specific ship for fluff reasons or your just bored using the same thing. The scout is just much better. Looking at the cost of other generic pilots I feel they are just much to costly to consider for what they bring to the table

You totally missed my point

Why take 3 TIE Fighters when you can take Soontir Fel?

Why take 4 TIE Fighters when you can take Corran?

Why take 5 TIE Fighters or 3 Kihraxzs when you can take Super Dash or a fat Han?

Why fly Barons of the Empire when you can just use a 31 point Inquisitor?

Low PS ships that move once, maybe attack once since they don't have turrets, maybe do one action haven't really had a place in this game since wave 4. The strong generic jouster based lists all have some hyper offensive trick to them, like Crackshot or the shenanigans that U-Boats can do. This has become necessary because otherwise they cannot touch Acewings.

Look at Crackshot for example. While you still have Crackshot up, a 2 attack dice shot is in reality a 2 attack dice + one automatic hit result (provided your opponent has a result you can cancel with it, of course. You close to range 1 with your normally useless 2 attack dice ship and now you have 3 attack dice and an automatic hit. That's 6 ships with the offensive power of ATC Vader almost for a turn.

Without this tech? Useless garbage that can't hit anything.

So I don't want to hear about the decline of Joustwings, they've been shoved out of the game for a while now and U-Boats aren't at fault. Hell, they make Joustwings more prevalent because they're the premier Joustwing based lists alongside Crackswarm. Unless your Joustwing has some sort of offensive boost to deal with the hyper damage mitigation of a list like Palp Aces, don't even bother and that's been the case since wave 4.

When comparing generics, not named why bother try to build a squad with rookie xwing, or blue Squadron, mandalorian mercy, bounty hunter...

Why do people keep comparing Contracted Scouts with stuff that's largely uncompetitive and then think it's a bad thing the scout is better than them?

If Contracted Scouts were as 'good' as x-wing rookies, you'd see them as often as x-wing rookies, aka once in a blue moon.

Why?

If you read my post you'd have your answer

I'm comparing them because I'm saying why even bother taking the others over the scouts.

Why take generic Xwing when you can take a scout.

Yes generic xwing are very uncompetitive, so why even look at it?

At least some people may try, but it's so blatantly obvious that the scouts are better.

Even in absence of scouts, why even bother taking a generic x-wing instead of a crack black for example?

All the stuff you've listed as being overshadowed by Scouts are also overshadowed by a great many other things. So why are Scouts specifically the problem in thus regard?

The Jumpmaster's dial is insane. Just compare it to the YT-2400, a dial people already called one of the best in the game.

In exchange for the loss of 3 hard turns, it gets green hard 1 and 2 turns to the left and 3 speed Sloops, including a white Segnor's Loop. People were worried about the asymmetrical dial making it predictable, yet frankly the Jumpmaster turns right better than most other large ships in X-Wing.

This is the most baffling thing to me. It started with the Falcon, and bled into the YT-2400, the Aggressor, the Jumpmaster. Why are these ships getting such incredible dials? You're telling me that the falcon, which in the film does big graceful loops MULTIPLE times, has a tighter turning radius than an X-wing?

The Aggressor I can possibly understand, that there is no red maneuvers, however flying the Falcon, Jumpmaster, Outrider, I feel like I'm flying a giant rocket chair. Which happens to also be able to barrel roll. When these ships can barrel roll, they can literally fly backwards. it's completely bonkers.

Sometimes I seriously wonder if there is a chunk of the developer team that just frankly prefers playing large ships over small ones.

I think the team does great work in how it comes up with how to translate these ships into a 2D, game format. But this consistently baffles me.

Here's a real laugh

Frank: My favorite ship from Wave VIII is definitely the

Punishing One. First of all, it's called the

Yeah, we sure can predict what this ship will do when stressed when it has green 1 and 2 speed turns and banks to the left, white 1 and 2 speed turns and banks to the right, green 1 and 2 speed straight maneuvers, and a freaking white S-Loop. I can imagine that dial leading to plenty of interesting decisions like "Okay, do I turn right with no drawbacks or do I turn left while moving better than a TIE Interceptor?" Oh yeah, and did I mention it's a turret?

Hell, compare the Jumpmaster's "predictable" dial to the G-1A's from the same wave.

Zuckuss and 4-LOM really got shortchanged in comparison to Dengar.

What's thisn "Downfall meme" FFG is talking in the last sentence of the article?

Can it be explained to me what builds U-Boats shoved out of the meta?

Stresshog.

Danger Zone (3x Tactician TLT K-Wing)

Quad TLT

Regen ships, like Poe, Corran, Miranda

What else? B-Wings? Everyone had already stopped playing those but okay.

These ships and builds have been replaced by:

Return of Super Dash

Dual Ghost squads. Rebel players have a 35 point Decimator with a systems slot and the evade action stop bitching.

Return of Biggs. R4-D6 forces your opponent to spend 3 torps to kill Biggs. Would you look at that, your opponent has to get through Biggs before they take out your regen ship or stresshog...

Wes Jansen is pretty cool.

Yeah, you can't play B-Wings anymore but you already couldn't, their jousting efficiency surpassed by Acewings befoRe U-Boats, and Acewings could arc dodge the B-Wings, so it was just better to fly TLT Y-Wings instead.

Quad TLT is dead. Is this really a bad thing?

There were people that were constantly whining about Shield regen and Stresshogs. I knew why back then. Because they are just imperial bandwagoners that don't actually want a balanced game. FFG did them the favor of shutting out these lists from the meta by introducing the Scout, and that made the meta go from a pretty balanced one to an imperial dominated one. Good job! Now they have to find ways to awkwardly make this boogeyman of the meta ship go away, that just shuts out most Rebel fighters in existence out of the meta by the sheer fact that they have more HP with lower Agility by design! But hey, it shuts out 2/3 of other scum ships and even a few imperial ones.

Next on the imperial bootlickers schedule: Whine about rebels having overpowered large ships left in the meta! The Lothal rebel is too tanky for 35 points and Dash is still seen on some tournament tables... Unacceptable! Duh!

Jumpmasters are coolest ships designed by FFG so far. So many competetive builds, so many options, so much joy!

I usually don't fly them - despite having them and being Scum player - only because I find even more enjoyable to walk against the crowd But I fully understand ppl who fly them. They are great (i mean ships ).

We should talk how to make other ships equally cool, not how JM5K are bad, or ovepowered. They are not

There were people that were constantly whining about Shield regen and Stresshogs. I knew why back then. Because they are just imperial bandwagoners that don't actually want a balanced game. FFG did them the favor of shutting out these lists from the meta by introducing the Scout, and that made the meta go from a pretty balanced one to an imperial dominated one.

Where exactly was your 'pretty balanced meta' in regard to Scum?

IIRC only good list we had was Brobots, and that was still not winning as much as Rebels and Imperials. Worlds 2015 had 20% or so Scum lists at start, and only 2 in the cut. Not so pretty balanced if you ask me.

while people complain so much about the jumpmasters, they do get a big showing but at the same point they don't win the bigger events, this is a game and if people want to fly them then let them.

we are players have an effect on the meta ourselves, do we ***** and moan or do we adapt both our lists and our flying style.

I started playing in Jan 2016 so I've already been lucky to miss all the things I've read about such as the Phantom and it's decloaking changes.

I don't fly u boats, not because of some idea that flying them makes me a bad player or means other people can ***** about them, I don't fly them because I want to fly other things.

As an example of me adapting my own lists i run sometimes Palp aces, but to combat the u boats I've realised that reinforced deflectors is a great card for this (if they get 4 hits, not crits, and i get 0 evades it takes 3 shots to take down the shuttle.)

I joined X-wing because i found it to be one of the best communities of miniature games I've played with, but this attitude of moaning and belittling players who choose to play a list are things that can drive other players away, is this what we as a community really want?

There's very little "belittling " of the players. Quite a bit of moaning (myself included) that FFG made an error in judgement with the JM5K.

As a primarily Rebel player I'm not amused that my game has gone from how do I outmaneuver and out think my opponent to how many ships will I have left after the first combat turn. And can I score any points before I have no ships left? Against PalpAces I can play the game. Against triple U-Boats it's 98.99% based on my opponent's dice.

Jumpmasters are coolest ships designed by FFG so far. So many competetive builds, so many options, so much joy!

I usually don't fly them - despite having them and being Scum player - only because I find even more enjoyable to walk against the crowd But I fully understand ppl who fly them. They are great (i mean ships ).

We should talk how to make other ships equally cool, not how JM5K are bad, or ovepowered. They are not

Just 4 more pts over a ship That's small base, has 5 hp, has 5 hp, no elite, cannot barrel roll, no elite, no crew.

Or

Its8 8 pts cheaper than a ship with 10 hp, no elite, has an rear arc, one crew, no droid slot, no illicit, worse dial, can't load as much ordnance

No there is nothing wrong with that.

The ship is OP.

If you can't see that well idk what to say.

There's very little "belittling " of the players. Quite a bit of moaning (myself included) that FFG made an error in judgement with the JM5K.

As a primarily Rebel player I'm not amused that my game has gone from how do I outmaneuver and out think my opponent to how many ships will I have left after the first combat turn. And can I score any points before I have no ships left? Against PalpAces I can play the game. Against triple U-Boats it's 98.99% based on my opponent's dice.

Against Palp Aces you have the illusion of playing the game.

U-Boats kill you off quickly.

Palp Aces is a defensive version of U-Boats. Instead of getting blown away a fee turns into the game and decisively losing right then because you lost half your list instantly, you'll get a few turns in and set up a nice block on an Acewing and your opponent's dice will spike and you've lost the game right then, with your one chance at killing the Acewing gone.

Either way you're ******. It's just a slower, more miserable death with the illusion that you're playing the game with Palp Aces.

There's very little "belittling " of the players. Quite a bit of moaning (myself included) that FFG made an error in judgement with the JM5K.

As a primarily Rebel player I'm not amused that my game has gone from how do I outmaneuver and out think my opponent to how many ships will I have left after the first combat turn. And can I score any points before I have no ships left? Against PalpAces I can play the game. Against triple U-Boats it's 98.99% based on my opponent's dice.

Against Palp Aces you have the illusion of playing the game.

U-Boats kill you off quickly.

Palp Aces is a defensive version of U-Boats. Instead of getting blown away a fee turns into the game and decisively losing right then because you lost half your list instantly, you'll get a few turns in and set up a nice block on an Acewing and your opponent's dice will spike and you've lost the game right then, with your one chance at killing the Acewing gone.

Either way you're ******. It's just a slower, more miserable death with the illusion that you're playing the game with Palp Aces.

Basically, yes. With the caveat that this is only true against a good aces player who doesn't screw up.

And to the point about opponent's dice, vs Jumps it's actually very rarely down to the dice because their dice are incredibly consistent. If you're banking on them getting bad dice to win then you're in for a bad time. You have to build a different squad and play a different game.

Jumpmasters are coolest ships designed by FFG so far. So many competetive builds, so many options, so much joy!

I usually don't fly them - despite having them and being Scum player - only because I find even more enjoyable to walk against the crowd But I fully understand ppl who fly them. They are great (i mean ships ).

We should talk how to make other ships equally cool, not how JM5K are bad, or ovepowered. They are not

Sure....big base ship, 9 hp, can barrel roll, take astro, crew. Elite, two missles, modification, a pwt at that guaranteed 4 hits, at a base cost of 25 pts.

Just 4 more pts over a ship That's small base, has 5 hp, has 5 hp, no elite, cannot barrel roll, no elite, no crew.

Or

Its8 8 pts cheaper than a ship with 10 hp, no elite, has an rear arc, one crew, no droid slot, no illicit, worse dial, can't load as much ordnance

No there is nothing wrong with that.

The ship is OP.

If you can't see that well idk what to say.

Or maybe you should consider the possibility that the ships you are comparing the JM to are underpowered?

X-wimg rookies are bad in comparison to everything, not just JMs.

'If you can't see that well idk what to say.'