Yeah, black one is more of a vader/omega leader counter. The whole point of scouts is not having to TL.

The best way to counter scouts is to take their focus tokens away. Incidentally, taht also seems to be a solid way to counter palp aces...

My gut feeling is that the hard counter to u boats will be the Action: torp from the ARC. Which limits it rather.

Given that the card for Seismic Torpedoes is the only unspoiled card seemingly related to counters, I'd say it is more of a safe bet.

Sorry i don't get why you think this torp is the counter. There are many unspoiled cards left, and how is the torpedo related to counters?

“Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.”

Now they're coming back out again in order to defend Palp Aces players and promote the idea that it isn't broken. "After it took 3-4 TIE Fighters to strip all of the tokens and Palpatine off the Inquisitor, I lucked out with an unmodified shot at range 2 into unmodified green dice that blanked and chained together 2 crits that ended up doing 3 damage to Soontir, which killed him. See, Palp Aces takes skill to fly, ONE mistake and you're dead!"

It was range 1. You could argue the Aces player made several mistakes. He barrel rolled closer to the Academy Pilot instead of away from it when going around the rock. He spent his Palp modification to prevent damage on the Inquisitor and he spent Soontir's focus on the attack instead of saving it for defense.

I know you're the Alpha Troll and everything so this is probably a waste....For the record I am not a Palp Aces player. I am not trying to defend the list at all.

This thread was started as a discussion about why U-boat players get no respect when they win or place in large events. This is in stark contrast to the more numerous and more successful Palp Aces players who do not have that same lack of respect extended to them. The answer lies in the perception that the U-boats are easier to fly well and are more forgiving than Palp Aces even though Palp Aces is a stronger list.

I get a kick out of those who think pal aces are easy and forgiving

I call uBoats safety nets.

Players want something the feel secure with, they take uBoats.

27 total hp

12 of that is shields.

Hiding behind two evades

A large base ship which BTW can barrel roll to block and spread out.

An attack that will guarantee you 4 hits each time

Even if an opponent gets out of your arc, you still have a turret at least

At range one that turret is still rolling 3 dice

A pal ace squad has 17-19 hp depending on the variation

You may have a grand total of 9 shields, granted over half is on a slow moving ship which is usually away from the action anyway

You do not have a turret.

You do not still have a shot if you manage to not get things in arc.

Unlike uBoats you need to be thinking 3 turns ahead which mentally can get exhausting after 5-8 games.

Make one just one mistake and it can be game over.

Going the coarse of that many games and play flawlessly is not easy.

One bad dice roll your dead.

Lose a ship early, your probably dead

Something that doesn't really effect any uBoat player, and very seldom will they lose a ship early.

UBoats are taken by many because they fear the insecurity of other lists.

This is why I think many believe they are used by unskilled players, which they are. It's the more skilled out of the bunch who will do well, while the others get weeded out.

Also yes skilled player too will use them because, why not?

As I said, it's a safety net, but your going to see a lot of unskilled player take them.

They know they can do very well, they have all the benefits that I suggested, and it doesn't require as much thinking.

If your up against a good player you'll have to play it well of coarse, but against a skilled player, not using tripple uBoats, you have an advantage, that you can recover from more mistakes then he is

In a way it's almost like a handicap.

You can make a mistake and very easily recover, where as for your opponent he may not have that luxury when he misjudge a move and just barely caught the side of a rock.

No action for some ships, especially when taking 4 guaranteed hits is a death sentence

And all the complaining about the emperor. He's only great when your opponent has 2-3 ships in the board

His value decreases the more ships you have.

The more guns you have pointing at something the easier it will die.

Tripple uBoats with their barrel rolls can easily block lanes, cloaking paths.

Plus when a third of players at tournaments are flying them, your bound to get some in top spots. Even if they are unskilled. 20 unskilled players all take the same safety net list, your bound to get 1-2 in a top spot.

Not saying all are unskilled, but that's just odds.

These unskilled players may get more favorable Match ups vs others, and or games where a skilled opponent made a critical move.

Regardless flying an ace list is high risk, high reward.

Fly it well, you'll do good, but you have to maintain that over the coarse of an entire day.

UBoat players don't need to worry about such mistakes.

"oh I hit a rock, took 5 dmg, I'm still alive"

Next round

"I'll do a white s loop"

Imo there is a major difference between skill required with the two lists to do well

Aces can dodge all day, but even so, 3 big arcs is not exactly easy to be dodging, especially when they can do white s loops.

Arc dodging can not be done effectively unless your thinking where this will put you at least two turns ahead.

Aces also cannot kill a uBoat in one round. Unless he got extremely lucky. UBoats do insta kill some ships. Especially a ace player who made one bad move.

That's all it takes. One bad move.

One bad move will not end a game for a tripple uBoat players

If you're not thinking at least two turns ahead, you may find yourself very quickly between a rock and a hard place, literally speaking

Also don't get me started on how the uBoats took the roles away from other ships.

So long as things stay the way they are, you'll never want to use bombers as ordnance carriers.

To me that is piss poor game design

Bombers will be mini shuttles now

Not cool imo

My gut feeling is that the hard counter to u boats will be the Action: torp from the ARC. Which limits it rather.

Given that the card for Seismic Torpedoes is the only unspoiled card seemingly related to counters, I'd say it is more of a safe bet.

Sorry i don't get why you think this torp is the counter. There are many unspoiled cards left, and how is the torpedo related to counters?

I think the specific counter they were talking about is Black One. I think they said there was a specific counter to Ordnance, not to Jumpmasters, and Black One removing a Target Lock would fit that description.

One bad dice roll? You mean being able to turn blank blank focus into 4 evade results?

This is approaching, "Phantom doesn't ruin the game, just have to throw dice at it" levels of stupidity and Imperial player greed now.

How? When you're nearly guaranteed 3-4 evades every single defense, i consider that pretty forgiving. The only thing that a Palp Aces list has to do is get their target in arc and not hit a rock, and considering that most Imp Aces end up with both boost and barrel roll, that's stupidly easy to do. Palp Aces list is by far one of the most forgiving in the game.

I think you mean resilient. Palp Aces can certainly shrug off a lot of damage because of their strong defenses, but that's not the same as being forgiving. Forgiving means you can make a mistake and not be punished severely for it. Landing a U-boat on a rock is usually not going to be as bad as landing Soontir on a rock.

Again, the Madrid regional final is a great (if extreme) example of what we mean by not forgiving. Palp Aces player has the inquisitor in arc of several TIEs in the Crackswarm. Soontir is flanking. Soontir barrel rolls and boosts around a rock and gets his free focus. He is in range one of a single Academy Pilot who barrel rolled instead of taking a focus. Soontir fires, spending his focus for a couple of hits on another TIE. The inquisitor dodged arcs and has no shot. A few TIEs shooting at the inquisitor cause the Palp Aces player to use Palp to save a damage. When the lone Academy pilot shoots his unmodified attack he gets a hit and crit. Soontir rolls evade, focus, focus, blank. He takes the crit. Major explosion. Die roll is another crit for Direct Hit. One mistake, spending that focus on the attack, and Soontir is gone. That is not forgiving.

Usually I agree, but your example is not good here. He made SEVERAL mistakes. First, he had better maneuvering options for Soontir for 2 rounds to get rid of (outmaneuver) that single academy TIE. Then he barrel rolled and boosted for strange reasons using his actions. Then he spend the focus token to add a hit to his roll. Last mistake was the usage of Palp for Inquisitor. He did SEVERAL mistakes in 2 rounds. He didn't loose because the list is not forgiving, he used Palp and the focus because he was feeling safe. The list is forgiving, but not forgiving that many wrong actions at once due to cockiness.

Nevertheless I agree that the list is still not closely forgiving compared to triple U-boats (because nothing is compared to them)

One bad dice roll? You mean being able to turn blank blank focus into 4 evade results?

This is approaching, "Phantom doesn't ruin the game, just have to throw dice at it" levels of stupidity and Imperial player greed now.

Very easily actually

If you make one small mistake.

One tiny miscalculation.

You bump, nick a rock or debris you have 0 modifiers.

So now your blank blank focus becomes near death.

Thank god you had the emperor there cause he would be dead.

Oh but he has one more shot

After long days of gaming in tournaments, coming onto the end of you lasted that long, your brain is getting tired and yes you can very easily make just one mistake.

What was it someone said earlier, fel was one shooted at the final table somewhere by an Academy

A ******* ACADEMY pilot for Christ's sakes rofl

When will that ever happen to a uBoat it won't and never ever will

A uBoat player is likely not going to be as mentally exhausted coming on to the end of the day because he wasn't sitting there thinking 3 turns ahead.

He just needs to know where to go next turn to get that shoot off, or block you.

Fel or whisper really needs to see if I boost barrel roll here now, and next turn I do a two turn where will that put me? Then next turn...

That's not easy.

I've won **** ton of games with aces, but ones I lose is just one small error. One miscalculation, usually caused by being tired.

UBoats you can almost fly them with your eyes closed.

One bad dice roll? You mean being able to turn blank blank focus into 4 evade results?

This is approaching, "Phantom doesn't ruin the game, just have to throw dice at it" levels of stupidity and Imperial player greed now.

If you make one small mistake.

One tiny miscalculation.

You bump, nick a rock or debris you have 0 modifiers.

So now your blank blank focus becomes near death.

Thank god you had the emperor there cause he would be dead.

Oh but he has one more shot

After long days of gaming in tournaments, coming onto the end of you lasted that long, your brain is getting tired and yes you can very easily make just one mistake.

What was it someone said earlier, fel was one shooted at the final table somewhere by an Academy

A ******* ACADEMY pilot for Christ's sakes rofl

When will that ever happen to a uBoat it won't and never ever will

A uBoat player is likely not going to be as mentally exhausted coming on to the end of the day because he wasn't sitting there thinking 3 turns ahead.

He just needs to know where to go next turn to get that shoot off, or block you.

Fel or whisper really needs to see if I boost barrel roll here now, and next turn I do a two turn where will that put me? Then next turn...

That's not easy.

I've won **** ton of games with aces, but ones I lose is just one small error. One miscalculation, usually caused by being tired.

UBoats you can almost fly them with your eyes closed.

Let me ask this

How many games has someone seen a uBoats die from one shot?

Seriously how many?

Now how many games has someone seen fel, whisper, jax, echo die feom one shot?

If you say 0 then that's a total load of b.s

UBoats are safety nets.

Or training wheels.

Aces is when you decide take the training wheels off

Playing with the big boys now

Aces are really not that tough to deal with.

I've beaten quite a few of them now. Some inexperienced, others who won championships with them

Once you get a handle on them they really aren't that bad, and no I wasn't flying uBoats or aces with emperor, but builds with vessery and bombers, and Ghost with Biggs

Let's be honest. At a high level event one small mistake with any list can and will lose you the game. This is not a trait of aces lists. A Scout list (or nearly any other list) that makes one small mistake of missing a block or clipping an asteroid so it can't fire can sink a game as well.

Let's be honest. At a high level event one small mistake with any list can and will lose you the game. This is not a trait of aces lists. A Scout list (or nearly any other list) that makes one small mistake of missing a block or clipping an asteroid so it can't fire can sink a game as well.

While yes you may lose a game from a single mistake some ships are able to recover much easier than others.

A uBoat hits a rock but passes it, has not going to die.

Maybe he doesn't get that shot off, but he's still alive and if it's early in the game or whatever, may still have two others that can shoot.

Plus he still has a shot.

Just unmodified

Fel hitting a rock or bump is a much bigger deal.

Same goes for whisper

She may not get the recloak which you were counting on. Again leaving her with no action, no modifiers and two dice, she will die just like a Z95.

Ive yet heard of a uBoat die because it hit a rock.

If fel bumps or hits a rock He's not arc dodging, he's not boosting and barrel rolling.

He's dead in the water.

So Ya mistakes will penalize specific lists more than others.

There is a reason why it's high risk, high reward, you really need to be careful. You take a risk, thinking I have plenty of room to fit in, but don't, that's game over man

UBoats do not have that risk I'm sorry to say.

You still have a chance, you can still fight.

Yes in the end it can be your undoing, but your not out of the fight, and can at least stand a chance

After fel or whisper is gone, there isn't much fight left

That's being honest

Usually one single small mistake with U-boats in the opening rounds, like an accidental bump or clipping an asteroid, which results in one Torp not being shot at the right time, thus crippling your alpha strike sets you back quite a bit in my experience.

Not thinking 2-3 turns ahead usually results in the U-boats getting tangled in between enemy ships and obstacles, usually having a very hard time pulling free in order to gain range 2, arc and focus on somebody again.

It bothers me that someone would believe you wouldn't need to plan ahead a few turns to coordinate three large bases around themselves and asteroids. Thats just naive.

It bothers me that someone would believe you wouldn't need to plan ahead a few turns to coordinate three large bases around themselves and asteroids. Thats just naive.

I think you totally missed my point

Arc dodger builds will Parish if your not 2-3 turns ahead.

UBoats not so much

I've tried using them to see what they were all about, and I didn't like it

Was almost as boring as flying quad TLT.

And I felt really bad for my opponent.

I didn't find much thought was required as when using aces.

Especially lining up that first shot.

Was way to easy from my experience

You can still do well with them with less planning.

Everyone has an opinion.

Mine is I don't like what uBoats have done to this game

I don't like them for multiple reasons

For me it not near as bad with the tlt, and regen squads. (though tlt are more boring to play and against)

Even fat Han

And until wave 9 is released they stole the show from bombers with ordnance.

Your not going to see bombers with ordnance in top spots like your seeing uBoats now.

As it currently stands from what I've seen using the new bombers is if you want ordnance you go with a scout.

Not bombers, kwing, ywings which are suppose to be ordnance carriers.

Sure go ahead and use them but it'll be a uphill battle.

UBoats are much easier to make them work.

With the effort ffg has put into lately of fixing ordnance, it seems in the end their solution was uBoats

It bothers me that someone would believe you wouldn't need to plan ahead a few turns to coordinate three large bases around themselves and asteroids. Thats just naive.

A good player will yes, but you can still do pretty **** good so long as you have your focus shot, and my point is inexperienced players can still do well with them when the cards line up right, they get good match-ups.

I think you totally missed my point

Arc dodger builds will Parish if your not 2-3 turns ahead.

UBoats not so much

I've tried using them to see what they were all about, and I didn't like it

Was almost as boring as flying quad TLT.

And I felt really bad for my opponent.

I didn't find much thought was required as when using aces.

Especially lining up that first shot.

Was way to easy from my experience

You can still do well with them with less planning.

Everyone has an opinion.

Mine is I don't like what uBoats have done to this game

I don't like them for multiple reasons

For me it not near as bad with the tlt, and regen squads. (though tlt are more boring to play and against)

Even fat Han

And until wave 9 is released they stole the show from bombers with ordnance.

Your not going to see bombers with ordnance in top spots like your seeing uBoats now.

As it currently stands from what I've seen using the new bombers is if you want ordnance you go with a scout.

Not bombers, kwing, ywings which are suppose to be ordnance carriers.

Sure go ahead and use them but it'll be a uphill battle.

UBoats are much easier to make them work.

With the effort ffg has put into lately of fixing ordnance, it seems in the end their solution was uBoats

1.) I don't think many will disagree with you that U-Boats are easy to fly and win with. They clearly are. What we disagree with is that it's easier to fly than Palp Aces, and that Palp Aces takes a lot of skill, or that's it's vulernable to bad dice or (more) vulnerable to mistakes than U-Boats are.

2.) Sorry if this sounds like a personal attack, but I hate the way you (non-)format your posts, lol.

3.) Honestly I would fly quad Gamma Squadron, quad Homing Missiles, quad EM, quad guidance chips or even triple PS 4 Punisher if I didn't have to also deal with Palp Aces. You know what beats a PS 3 alpha strike? A PS 4 one.

I don't take it personal, but I'm on my phone, so I usually have to edit something.

**** autocorrect, but I have to ask, what's wrong with my format?

I don't take it personal, but I'm on my phone, so I usually have to edit something.

**** autocorrect, but I have to ask, what's wrong with my format?

It looks like a text-wall

or maybe I'd even say

it looks like some bad

bad lyrics of a post-

modern composer

who likes to make

MORE LINES

ahem, and yeah, you say it takes a good player to line up all the balls, while previously stating they take no skill to fly.

I don't take it personal, but I'm on my phone, so I usually have to edit something.

**** autocorrect, but I have to ask, what's wrong with my format?

It's a series of sentences and sentence fragments, each on a line by themselves.

I don't take it personal, but I'm on my phone, so I usually have to edit something.

**** autocorrect, but I have to ask, what's wrong with my format?

It looks like a text-wall

or maybe I'd even say

it looks like some bad

bad lyrics of a post-

modern composer

who likes to make

MORE LINES

ahem, and yeah, you say it takes a good player to line up all the balls, while previously stating they take no skill to fly.

And it don't even rhyme!

I don't take it personal, but I'm on my phone, so I usually have to edit something.

**** autocorrect, but I have to ask, what's wrong with my format?

It looks like a text-wall

or maybe I'd even say

it looks like some bad

bad lyrics of a post-

modern composer

who likes to make

MORE LINES

ahem, and yeah, you say it takes a good player to line up all the balls, while previously stating they take no skill to fly.

A good player can and will, because that's what he does with any list.

A new player can still do good if he doesn't

It bothers me that someone would believe you wouldn't need to plan ahead a few turns to coordinate three large bases around themselves and asteroids. Thats just naive.

As it currently stands from what I've seen using the new bombers is if you want ordnance you go with a scout.

Not bombers, kwing, ywings which are suppose to be ordnance carriers.

This is the biggest thing that bothers me with U Boats. A custom fitted freighter/Large commercial ship is so much better at dumping missiles/torpedoes than military designed ships for that sole purpose. You can talk balance etc all you want, but if ships lose their role then they just become skins for stats on a piece of cardboard. IMO ships like the Punisher should be a lot better at ordnance strikes than the JM5K, but that is clearly not the case. I am glad ordnance has made a resurgence, I am just a bit disappointed how FFG went about doing it.

My gut feeling is that the hard counter to u boats will be the Action: torp from the ARC. Which limits it rather.

Given that the card for Seismic Torpedoes is the only unspoiled card seemingly related to counters, I'd say it is more of a safe bet.

Sorry i don't get why you think this torp is the counter. There are many unspoiled cards left, and how is the torpedo related to counters?

Just gut feeling, and a vague eye on what is and isn't visible. The only new crew are unique Scum ones and the Tail Gunner which seems likely to relate to shooting out of aux arcs. (I hope) It wouldn't be an Astromech or an Illicit or anything only for a single faction.

It's neither of the upgrades in the Fang, since one we know has nothing to do with focus tokens or munitions and the other is probably an attacking version of the one we've already seen.

The three crew from the Shadow Caster are scum only and unique most likely, so it won't be them. Black (Market) Slice(r Tools) are probably illicit, so it won't be them. Gyr... Tar... looks to be related to moving the mobile arc, so it probably won't be that, not to mention if it is mobile arc related, limiting the hard counter to one ship would be a terrible idea. And we know what Rigged Cargo Hold does, so it won't be that, and everything else from that box is old upgrades.

From the /sf it's unlikely to be a tech slot or sensor slot item because those are very limited in availability, but I guess it MIGHT be. And we know what all the other upgrades in that are.

From the arc there's a generc astromech - it shouldn't be that, on the basis of it being limited to one faction and not even all the ships of that faction. We know what Adrenaline Rush, RecSpec and Alliance Overhaul do. It seems likely that Vec(tor) Thru(sters) is a mod that adds barrel roll to the action bar, so it's not that. Tail Gunner - maybe, but it seems most likely that is related to aux arc shooting somehow, so probably not.

That only leaves the torpedo. I don't know how it's related, but my best guess is that it will strip tokens from enemy ships as an action, possibly with damage or possibly a number of tokens related to the number of [boom]s and [kaboom]s on the dice rolled.

The other possibility is that the entire wave is full of several counters to ordnance and that it's in the system slot in the sf, Black Market Slicer Tools, the generic astromech, EVERYwhere... but I doubt it.

That's all based on deduction from the preview by the by. I have no access to any kind of privileged information, nor would I say anything about it if I had.

Okay nice explanation.

My bet would still be on the Systems or tech slot or even on the new R3 Astro.

If it really was the Astromech, i could hear the whining beginning already, but personally i would find it fair enough, as Rebels definitely got the very worst part with the introduction of J5Ks. Remember... Empire does fine with their Aces anyway and U-Boats are a Scum list. So for me it would be fine.

It would be fine in any case as long as there is in fact a good counter in the set and the number of U-Boat lists on tournaments gets significantly reduced as a consequence by the possibility of getting hard countered. Then slowly but surely the Palp aces counters could return to the tables and we would see a diverse meta again.

To say these lists are easy to fly is one thing. But to say it takes little to no skill to win a major event with these lists is silly at best. How many mirror matches did they have to beat to win? How many direct counters to their lists did they have to beat to win? When a list is as popular as Palp aces and U-boats you can bet people are going to be flying something that counters one or the other. Some of these events have hundreds of people playing at them and can reach into the high teens for games played. Anyone who wins something like that has mad skillz regardless of what list they are flying.

1.) I don't think many will disagree with you that U-Boats are easy to fly and win with. They clearly are. What we disagree with is that it's easier to fly than Palp Aces, and that Palp Aces takes a lot of skill, or that's it's vulernable to bad dice or (more) vulnerable to mistakes than U-Boats are.

2.) Sorry if this sounds like a personal attack, but I hate the way you (non-)format your posts, lol.

3.) Honestly I would fly quad Gamma Squadron, quad Homing Missiles, quad EM, quad guidance chips or even triple PS 4 Punisher if I didn't have to also deal with Palp Aces. You know what beats a PS 3 alpha strike? A PS 4 one.

Fantastic post, this exactly nails it!

You need to be just as good a player to win tournaments with U-Boats than with Palp Aces.

BUT:The problem with U-Boats and the actual difference to Palp Aces that makes Contracted Scouts so much worse in my opinion is that they just totally shut out too many other lists and limit options of what is playable and competitive! Amongst these things are most lists that could actually counter Palp Aces.

This goes a long way in enabling Palp Aces to be as dominant as they are at the moment! That is the true dilemma and why i think we need a hard counter to Scouts, not to Aces (because they do exist already in good numbers).

It bothers me that someone would believe you wouldn't need to plan ahead a few turns to coordinate three large bases around themselves and asteroids. Thats just naive.

As it currently stands from what I've seen using the new bombers is if you want ordnance you go with a scout.

Not bombers, kwing, ywings which are suppose to be ordnance carriers.

This is the biggest thing that bothers me with U Boats. A custom fitted freighter/Large commercial ship is so much better at dumping missiles/torpedoes than military designed ships for that sole purpose. You can talk balance etc all you want, but if ships lose their role then they just become skins for stats on a piece of cardboard. IMO ships like the Punisher should be a lot better at ordnance strikes than the JM5K, but that is clearly not the case. I am glad ordnance has made a resurgence, I am just a bit disappointed how FFG went about doing it.

I mean why even buy a punisher.

That's what it's suppose to ******* do lol

Yet scouts are just so much better, and cost efficient.

Punisher failed big time

Maybe they are the ones who should have had the scouts stats. Really and truly.

As things stand now, you'll never want to use ywings, bombers. Kwing, punisheras ordnance carriers so long as things are the way they are now

I really don't know what they are thinking at the design team and play testers. How did this even get through play testing is beyond me. I can understand wanting to have it be unique, but let's try keep the ships fulfill their roles and not make it so that when it comes to choosing a ship there is only one go to.

@ rear Admiral nerf.

Not sure who you are referring to, but I already said that people who win are skilled. When 20 players all flying the same thing, the most skilled will come out to the top, but even so, when you have 20 players flying the same thing your bound to get some that are not all that skilled do well. They probably won't win the event but if the games line up good for them they can stomp someone very easily when your throwing 4 automatic hits all day

1.) I don't think many will disagree with you that U-Boats are easy to fly and win with. They clearly are. What we disagree with is that it's easier to fly than Palp Aces, and that Palp Aces takes a lot of skill, or that's it's vulernable to bad dice or (more) vulnerable to mistakes than U-Boats are.

2.) Sorry if this sounds like a personal attack, but I hate the way you (non-)format your posts, lol.

3.) Honestly I would fly quad Gamma Squadron, quad Homing Missiles, quad EM, quad guidance chips or even triple PS 4 Punisher if I didn't have to also deal with Palp Aces. You know what beats a PS 3 alpha strike? A PS 4 one.

Fantastic post, this exactly nails it!

You need to be just as good a player to win tournaments with U-Boats than with Palp Aces.

BUT:The problem with U-Boats and the actual difference to Palp Aces that makes Contracted Scouts so much worse in my opinion is that they just totally shut out too many other lists and limit options of what is playable and competitive! Amongst these things are most lists that could actually counter Palp Aces.

This goes a long way in enabling Palp Aces to be as dominant as they are at the moment! That is the true dilemma and why i think we need a hard counter to Scouts, not to Aces (because they do exist already in good numbers).

I think it goes both ways. Palp Aces crushes the U-Boat counters and U-Boats crush the Palp Ace counters.

There already are hard counters to U-Boats. Higher PS alpha strikes, from Talas or Gammas or whatever. Palp Aces gives these lists fits, with the ability to shrug off a 4/4 hit attack easily and the ability to arc dodge and close to range 1. There is no Feedback Array, R5-P8, Autoblaster, etc. for U-Boats, nor should there be. Last time the game was ruined by something, FFG introduced an autoinclude fix card and now we can't damage things at range 3 anymore.