Hopefully the ones I'm creating are deemed different enough in style.

You're creating unique ones, don't stress

People can post their own versions out there all they want (and I wouldn't dream of stopping them).

I would prefer if people created their own resources rather than using mine, but there are really only a few elements that I can say are unique to mine and those have popped up other places already.

I am well in my rights, though, to tell people not to put the Begging For XP logo on their sheets.

People can post their own versions out there all they want (and I wouldn't dream of stopping them).

I would prefer if people created their own resources rather than using mine, but there are really only a few elements that I can say are unique to mine and those have popped up other places already.

I am well in my rights, though, to tell people not to put the Begging For XP logo on their sheets.

100% agreed

People can post their own versions out there all they want (and I wouldn't dream of stopping them).

I would prefer if people created their own resources rather than using mine, but there are really only a few elements that I can say are unique to mine and those have popped up other places already.

I am well in my rights, though, to tell people not to put the Begging For XP logo on their sheets.

There was no disrespect intended, and I'm surprised to see people reacting this way. My intention was to help out where you felt like you couldn't, Doc. Keeping the logo was only to attribute you, the original maker of the handouts. I have in no way put my own logo, name or reference, because I'm not doing this for any personal gain or recognition. Just trying to help out a community that really liked your handouts, and liked the consistency of the line. (I feel like they have been the best set of fan-made talent trees out there.) But if you are not wanting to be continued recognized as the creator of these sheets, I have no problem removing your logo from them.

When I am creating something based on previous work, I usually like to give credit where credit is due, so under those circumstances I would typically mention that my work is based on the work by Doc from BeggingForXP.com. Or maybe inspired by his work, if significant changes have been made.

However, in the case where someone has specifically requested that their unique design elements not be copied (as Doc is well within his rights to do), then I think that you should come up with your own unique versions of those designs to replace them. Which I believe that Rebel Dave and RLogue177 are clearly doing, whereas Joress is not.

As someone else said earlier in the thread, you can only control what you are doing yourself, not what others do.

Hopefully, we will all be able to pay the respect that Doc deserves for all the fine work he’s done for the community, and preferably in a way that honors his requests.

People can post their own versions out there all they want (and I wouldn't dream of stopping them).

I would prefer if people created their own resources rather than using mine, but there are really only a few elements that I can say are unique to mine and those have popped up other places already.

I am well in my rights, though, to tell people not to put the Begging For XP logo on their sheets.

There was no disrespect intended, and I'm surprised to see people reacting this way. My intention was to help out where you felt like you couldn't, Doc. Keeping the logo was only to attribute you, the original maker of the handouts. I have in no way put my own logo, name or reference, because I'm not doing this for any personal gain or recognition. Just trying to help out a community that really liked your handouts, and liked the consistency of the line. (I feel like they have been the best set of fan-made talent trees out there.) But if you are not wanting to be continued recognized as the creator of these sheets, I have no problem removing your logo from them.

Didn't mean for it to come off as confrontational. Inspired by is cool, but it should be clear that I didn't do them.

People can post their own versions out there all they want (and I wouldn't dream of stopping them).

I would prefer if people created their own resources rather than using mine, but there are really only a few elements that I can say are unique to mine and those have popped up other places already.

I am well in my rights, though, to tell people not to put the Begging For XP logo on their sheets.

There was no disrespect intended, and I'm surprised to see people reacting this way. My intention was to help out where you felt like you couldn't, Doc. Keeping the logo was only to attribute you, the original maker of the handouts. I have in no way put my own logo, name or reference, because I'm not doing this for any personal gain or recognition. Just trying to help out a community that really liked your handouts, and liked the consistency of the line. (I feel like they have been the best set of fan-made talent trees out there.) But if you are not wanting to be continued recognized as the creator of these sheets, I have no problem removing your logo from them.

Didn't mean for it to come off as confrontational. Inspired by is cool, but it should be clear that I didn't do them.

No worries! I'm a little surprised about the reactions from this whole thing. You have a lot of people that support you, that's for sure! I felt I was trying to be one of them too, but apparently the community feels otherwise.

However, in the case where someone has specifically requested that their unique design elements not be copied (as Doc is well within his rights to do), then I think that you should come up with your own unique versions of those designs to replace them. Which I believe that Rebel Dave and RLogue177 are clearly doing, whereas Joress is not.

If there was any error on my part, it was I was trying to continue a project that the owner didn't want continued. I have yet to understand why, but I'll admit to that, bradknowles. (At first, it sounded more like a lack of resources than a unwillingness to allow continuation. He gave us the typefaces and where they were used.)

Be mindful about what is considered unique design elements and what is derivative work, though. As I mentioned before, I was not intending to copy his sheets and tag them as if they were mine. But if I were to create my own line of talent trees, and I use FFG's style as my inspiration, it would resemble Doc's version, since he followed FFG's style too. I may use a new font, move a box here or there, but overall, it would look similar to what you find in the books. And that is what I would want it to look like. Make it feel cohesive. Doc was clearly inspired by what was in the books because of how closely they resemble the originals. (Which is what I really liked about them!)

With all that said, I feel like these are my options to appease the masses...

1. Keep making the handouts, with a note that says these were inspired by Doc's handouts, but that he's not affiliated with them. Share them with the community.
2. Pull the handouts I've done. I'll probably keep making them for my own personal purposes, but not sharing with the community.
3. Update the handouts with enough changes to constitute my own version, and release them to the community, as demonstrated below. (Fonts changed, Circle instead of a box.)

Change for the sake of change doesn't really improve the sheets. As I see it, it's all heavily derivative of the original versions in the FFG books. If you're going to make any changes, I'd suggest going back toward that source rather than further way from it.

Agreed. Option 1 is the way to go. "Copy" the trees as they are in the book (they are all going to look more or less alike) and give credit to Doc as desired (removing Beggingforxp logo). No need to go out of your way to make a "significantly different looking" sheet. I think we're all on the same page.

FYI - I made this in Excel 2016 but I checked compatibility back to Excel 2007. If you are using something older than that, or a non-MS Excel reader (like opening it in Google's preview or on mobile), the dropdown may not work right and the formatting may get screwed up.

Confirmed, the dropdown doesn't appear to work with Numbers either, but maybe that's a small tweak. Nice work!

Thanks. As far as Numbers goes, I don't have a Mac to check compatibility against or much experience working with anything but Excel. This is really something I built for my own use so I haven't gone out of my way to do tons of compatibility work.

That being said, I'm working on adding signature abilities now.

I finished adding in the Signature Ability Trees. I also made a new thread with the link as this thread was never really the right place for this discussion.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/223028-talent-trees-in-excel/

My OCD just wants sheets that are both pretty ( as Doc's are) and share the same visual style.

I don't care what style they're in or who does them, as long as I can get my hands on some sheets updated with Special Modifications and Savage Spirits!

My OCD just wants sheets that are both pretty ( as Doc's are) and share the same visual style.

Frankly, I agree with you. This means that we need to wait for someone willing and able to re-do all the trees. Not just the new ones.

My OCD just wants sheets that are both pretty ( as Doc's are) and share the same visual style.

Then sounds like you and your OCD should build your own sheets

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

Why bother? there are others doing the same thing. Aside from that, Doc has the information required to the data from the new books. He obviously doesn't want to do it.

Don't treat Doc like he is a drug dealer that you are addicted to his "wares". Others are handling it, no need to backslide now.

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

Why bother? there are others doing the same thing. Aside from that, Doc has the information required to the data from the new books. He obviously doesn't want to do it.

Don't treat Doc like he is a drug dealer that you are addicted to his "wares". Others are handling it, no need to backslide now.

Actually, Doc has stopped buying the books because he's moved on to another game, which is why he stopped updating his sheets. Not because he simply doesn't want to bother with it anymore.

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

Why bother? there are others doing the same thing. Aside from that, Doc has the information required to the data from the new books. He obviously doesn't want to do it.

Don't treat Doc like he is a drug dealer that you are addicted to his "wares". Others are handling it, no need to backslide now.

Actually, Doc has stopped buying the books because he's moved on to another game, which is why he stopped updating his sheets. Not because he simply doesn't want to bother with it anymore.

Actually the information has been provided to him. So he has it.

I am well in my rights, though, to tell people not to put the Begging For XP logo on their sheets.

Bah! You evil corporate shill! Keeping the man down! Art and Information should be FREE!

Fortunately, I went and created my very own sheets, which I am willing to share with the public .

TL;DNR: Everyone lighten up. It's a free thing that someone nice did for us and no longer wants to update. Even tho it looks similar to FFG's stuff, Doc did put work in putting these together, so respect that. Dont be stealin' his S.

Even tho he sucks for not continuing the updates. . . . .

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

I thought we went over this already.

Here's the latest Technician talent trees from Special Modifications . I've now included all 3 in one PDF. Also added "Inspired by handouts on begginforxp.com" reference, to still point credit to Doc, but that he is not affiliated with these iterations.

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

... He obviously doesn't want to do it. ...

It's more an issue of time right now, actually, though the end is the same. Were I not running two different campaigns, being a father/husband, and Overwatching I would keep them up.

@Doc the Weasel

If others were willing to buy the books and write up the abridged Talent descriptions, would you be willing to plug that info into your existing format? That seems to be the simplest and most equitable solution, at least to me.

... He obviously doesn't want to do it. ...

It's more an issue of time right now, actually, though the end is the same. Were I not running two different campaigns, being a father/husband, and Overwatching I would keep them up.

Just wondering, why did you try to solicit people to buy the books/hosting for you via Patreon if time was an issue? (see post 23 on page 2 of this thread before refuting this).

I am all for changing your mind, that is allowed, but you are responding to a post, that is responding to that request.

As a newly registered user to this forum, the first comment on topic should be "Thank You" to Doc, the Weasel. It seems he's already put in a lot of resources to make something free to the community at large. Thanks, Doc, the Weasel.

I don't know who Doc, the Weasel is. I can intuit that he has a lot of respect from the community. He says he has a lot of real-world balls to juggle, and can sympathize. I wish him well on whatever future endeavors he undertakes.

I'll also admit that I don't understand why FFG isn't more involved in protecting its - not necessarily Doc, the Weasel's- intellectual property by limiting the free distribution of character generation to persons who may not own physical copies of the book. Where did I miss this information about who really owns the IP? Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Spelling fix