I'd like Ronan to work, because the mini is cool, but I think even after H&M pack buffing, his special + heroic are WAY below any other hero. I don't remember trading items at all except options. I wonder, is there another as useless guy (conversion kit excluded) as him?

Shiver has never been the best mage. Thanks for helping me decide- I'll be Ronan in my next campaign.

It's a bit mind boggling, Ronan was among the top heroes in 1st Edition. I don't understand why Pico was turned from a combat orientated familiar into a version of Mata/Kata.

I'd like Ronan to work, because the mini is cool, but I think even after H&M pack buffing, his special + heroic are WAY below any other hero. I don't remember trading items at all except options. I wonder, is there another as useless guy (conversion kit excluded) as him?

Hm.. I disagree about your assessment of Ronan. I think he is a fine hero, and I'd be happy to have him in my team. He makes a great Bounty Hunter or Wildlander.

Yes, his feat has circumstantial use, but it doesn't require an action either. It is very powerful and handy to have a free trade with unlimited range and no line of sight requirement, such as when a useful piece of new equipment is picked up from a treasure chest or secret room and it needs to find its way to the right hero. Even just a stamina potion in the right place at the right time can make a big difference.

His ability is also quite strong, in my opinion. It usually translates into many free actions every single encounter. He synergizes especially well with heroes with high speed and/or movement enhancing abilities, as this allows them to easily scoop up the search tokens that Pico finds in out of the way places at minimal cost.

Also, red pandas are adorable. <3

In terms of bad heroes that are not exclusive to conversion kit, I agree with Zaltyre that Shiver is really bad. Other heroes I strongly dislike and would never pick are Dezra the Vile and Brother Gherinn.

I also don't like Laurel of Bloodwood much at all, as I think Roganna the Shade is just a flat out better version of her.

While I generally agree with your ranking, Charmy, I'd like to think that it may very well be upset by the arrival of hybrid classes. Dezra as a warrior/mage, or gherrin as a warrior/healer, for example, might be quite good.

I dunno, I might be a novice here, but honestly, playing exclusively as the Overlord so far, Shiver could really screw up my plans. Take Fatigue to get into position, spend the heroic feat, and suddenly I can't move a good chunk of my minions. Run back with the second action, take a strategic position, and I'll have a hard time to simply run past and ignore him.

I might be wrong, though, not having actually played him or met him, but he looks like he could be a pretty good Conjurer or Hexer.

Imagine locking things down with yourself and Mirror Images with Illusory Path. Entering a square adjacent to Shiver and a Mirror Image would cost 3 movement points. Sure, you'd probably end up attacking him and the Mirror Image, but that in itself is a concession made on part of the Overlord, so he doesn't have to spend 9 movement points just to get past them. And that's if you get past without him Immobilizing you.

I think the new classes will change the way we think about quite a few heroes...

I'm quite pumped to see what combinations will be available because some heroes often seem to be counter to their archetype, and now it will be possible to play them as something else.

Shiver is indeed a great conjurer (if not the best), and can be a real threat to the Overlord, forcing him to play differently (zombies will never be more useless ... )

Ronan as a thief is a good choice : with pico and the class, and the feat, it will be like making around 12 actions without spending actions (4 search on each encounter, 4 doors, and 1 exchange without having to move)

If search for bad heroes, there are some of them :

- Dezra (not enough health, feat is a suicide)
- Augur (the ohly one that forgot himself)
- Serena (brown die and 8 health ...)
- Raythen (brown die and useless hero power who never works)
- Orkell (low health and brown die)
- Rendiel (do not gain action or tempo)

- Grisban (cannot discard stun, low stamina, not enough power in all)
- Silhouette (feat rarely of some use, power useless if shooter)

Shiver has never been the best mage.

In terms of bad heroes that are not exclusive to conversion kit, I agree with Zaltyre that Shiver is really bad. Other heroes I strongly dislike and would never pick are Dezra the Vile and Brother Gherinn.

I also don't like Laurel of Bloodwood much at all, as I think Roganna the Shade is just a flat out better version of her.

I wouldn't argue they are the best choices for their archetype but they have circumstantial uses.

Shiver makes an ok Necromancer, he's still susceptible to ranged attacks but his ability can help him stay in the back out of harms way.

Dezra's ability is a lot more useful if you can get her the Runeplate armor, Vestments of Kellos or Inscribed robes

[...]

- Grisban (cannot discard stun, low stamina, not enough power in all)

[...]

Why wouldn't Grisban be able to discard the Stunned condition?

Grisban can take a rest action and immediately discard 1 condition card. That condition card can be Stunned.

Not being contrarian, I'm genuinely curious, since one at my table is playing Grisban.

[...]

- Grisban (cannot discard stun, low stamina, not enough power in all)

[...]

Why wouldn't Grisban be able to discard the Stunned condition?

Grisban can take a rest action and immediately discard 1 condition card. That condition card can be Stunned.

Not being contrarian, I'm genuinely curious, since one at my table is playing Grisban.

He can't because of rules

stun "when you have this condition card, the only action you can do is discarding this card for an action"

So, when having stun, Grisban (or wathever hero in fact) cannot do anything else than discard the card for an action.

So, you cannot do another action, including rest action, to discard it.

[...]

- Grisban (cannot discard stun, low stamina, not enough power in all)

[...]

Why wouldn't Grisban be able to discard the Stunned condition?

Grisban can take a rest action and immediately discard 1 condition card. That condition card can be Stunned.

Not being contrarian, I'm genuinely curious, since one at my table is playing Grisban.

He can't because of rules

stun "when you have this condition card, the only action you can do is discarding this card for an action"

So, when having stun, Grisban (or wathever hero in fact) cannot do anything else than discard the card for an action.

So, you cannot do another action, including rest action, to discard it.

Correct, Grizban is weak against Stun and Immobilize, however if you own expansion there are many other Conditions he can potentially discard with a rest action.

He may not be the best choice for Warrior, but he's not useless.

- Serena (brown die and 8 health ...)

Everyone can "Defend" on her, she has 6 stamina, and has one the most powerful feats I can think of. She is fragile, but I find her quite interesting.

Played as Silhouette(Stalker) and Orkel(Skirmisher) and liked them both!

If you are playing RtL it seems that it is altering the value of some of the heroes. For example somebody in my group is playing as Dezra. With the way activation works in RtL there are often enemies adjacent to her at the start of her turn so her HA has been very useful. Her feat still seems fairly useless.

- Serena (brown die and 8 health ...)

Everyone can "Defend" on her, she has 6 stamina, and has one the most powerful feats I can think of. She is fragile, but I find her quite interesting.

And one of the few feats that could totally miss ...

[...]

- Grisban (cannot discard stun, low stamina, not enough power in all)

[...]

Why wouldn't Grisban be able to discard the Stunned condition?

Grisban can take a rest action and immediately discard 1 condition card. That condition card can be Stunned.

Not being contrarian, I'm genuinely curious, since one at my table is playing Grisban.

He can't because of rules

stun "when you have this condition card, the only action you can do is discarding this card for an action"

So, when having stun, Grisban (or wathever hero in fact) cannot do anything else than discard the card for an action.

So, you cannot do another action, including rest action, to discard it.

Oh snap, you're right. That actually seriously devalues Grisban, since Stun is such a common condition, and for all other conditions, you'd still have to take a Rest Action anyway, often not making it worth it, especially since Grisban already deals with Poison and Disease like a champ.

I agree with everyone's assessment that Serena is generally weak and sub-optimal. I think giving her 8 health and brown defense was too punishing for the abilities she has.

However , she is interesting, and I love interesting heroes. She is the only hero with 6 stamina, and the only hero with 5 willpower. Together these make her a compelling Spiritspeaker, particularly armed with something like the Undying Skull (Some Spiritspeaker builds rarely make conventional attacks anyway).

If the class got a badly needed revisiting and polish, she could actually be good.

Despite her flaws, I still play with Serena from time to time. She feels very different from other heroes, as her massive stamina pool means she doesn't spend a move action very often.

I really like Orkell. Don't get me wrong - he's far from an "A-list" warrior, but I think he is interesting too. 5 stamina, 5 speed, and what I consider a fairly strong hero ability and feat make him feel unique and really speedy. I think the brown die was too punishing for a warrior though. I'd love him if he had a gray die!

Unfortunately, most of the other heroes mentioned aren't even interesting.. just flat out sub-par.

Let me go on record saying Orkell CRUSHES as a skirmisher. He was (literally) made for that class. I dare say he is my favorite skirmisher. 5 speed/stamina is really hard to beat.

[...]

- Ashrian: (unless you are playing with a two-hero game) I wouldn't put her sourrounded by minions, and a experience overlord won't leave the minions near her.

[...]

It's entirely true that an experienced overlord won't leave minions near her, but on the other hand, an experienced overlord won't leave minions near her . Anything that flat-out forces the Overlord to feel like he has to make wholesale concessions like that is actually fairly powerful. The experienced overlord develops Ashrianophobia, potentially avoiding her even when they shouldn't. She can make a really good Spiritspeaker.

[...]

- Serena: unless you have a devote defender, she will be the primary target for every overlord attack, and for the defender you will need a ranged tank, someone like Ravaella Lightfoot, otherwise you will delay party placement for having the tank at the back.

[...]

I dunno; on her own I agree, but like you said, unless you have a devote[d] defender . If you take Serena and plan the hero picks with your group, you should have a devoted defender. Her high Fatigue Stamina ensures that she shouldn't have big problems keeping up with her defender, either. Best pairing would probably be with Mordrog: each time he suffers 1 or more damage, he can recover 1 fatigue, and he's got 14 health.

That means he could take 1 fatigue to take the damage meant for Serena, and then immediately discard the fatigue if he takes damage.

I will go on record as saying that Raythen is not a bad hero either. His brown die is a serious liability, but with his 14 health, he can survive a lot of hits...Just buy him a coat, or something.

And his heroic ability has helped us a lot in our RoAG campaign. There were quite a few tests that were failed where a reroll using Raythen's attributes turned failure into a pass.

His heroic feat is useful, but not the best, though.

Has anyone tried Serena as a Disciple? It seems like she could just spam Radiant Light twice every other turn, wiping out small groups, dealing 2 red die worth of damage to heavy armour targets, and keeping everyone topped up.

If you are playing RtL it seems that it is altering the value of some of the heroes. For example somebody in my group is playing as Dezra. With the way activation works in RtL there are often enemies adjacent to her at the start of her turn so her HA has been very useful. Her feat still seems fairly useless.

Agreed. I have been playing Rendiel using RtL, and his hero ability has come in handy. Given the morale hit every time someone is knocked out, and how terribly I seem to roll the red dice, reviving someone at full health and stamina is a great advantage.

I as well found Orkell to be an awesome Skirmisher (although I haven't played him in Act II yet). While it's certainly true that his brown defense die is problematic, this get's offset by his great damage potential (with 5 fatigue) and his heroic feat that basically gives you a second life or clears up an impending blockage (you can move every monster adjacent to you).

I also found Rendiel to be a great healer alongside Orkell, because you can be sure he needs to be revived quite often.

I only think that this combo will be the hero party's downfall in the finale, because Rendiel practically has no ability and heroic feat and Orkell loses his heroic feat as well in the final encounter.