Now before the flaming starts, let me ask the full question: What do people want tactically from a Gunship that is not provided by the Tie Punisher?

As an old-school Tie Fighter player, I would love to see the Gunboat just I was pleased to see the Defender come out. However, when I think of how the Gunboat handled, I think that realistic stats for it are very close to where the Punisher is already.

Solid hull? Check

Decent shields? Check

Loads of ordnance space? Check

Steers like a concussed cow? Check

About the only difference is that to match the background, the Gunship should probably have a Cannon slot instead of a System slot.

So, leaving nostalgia aside, what would we want from a Gunboat? How would it be different in stats or cost from the Punisher? While I would like to see a Gunship, I think that realistically the Punisher can pretty much filled the niche the Gunship would occupy. I can't see how you could make a Gunship that was sufficiently different from the Punisher without making it different from the Gunship in the background.

<Donning fire-proof clothing and tin hat>

There's already a thread for this. A really, really big one.

a viable competitive option, mhaps

the punisher really could've stood to be 2 points cheaper

This is a much more focused question, though. I think starting a new thread is fine.

ATT: 4
AG: 2
H: 6
S: 6
Focus, TL, Evade, Boost, Cloak, Reinforce, SLAM
EPT, Cannon, Cannon, Cannon, Torp, Torp, Missile, Missile, Mine, Mine, System, Tech
Cost: probably in the 25-35 point, since it's an Imp ship, but I could see it coming down to 22 to keep it competitive with Fel, OL, Inq, Scouts, ...

I want it not to exist. The arc 170 and k wing are bad enough ugh and the punisher...

ATT: 4

AG: 2

H: 6

S: 6

Focus, TL, Evade, Boost, Cloak, Reinforce, SLAM

EPT, Cannon, Cannon, Cannon, Torp, Torp, Missile, Missile, Mine, Mine, System, Tech

Cost: probably in the 25-35 point, since it's an Imp ship, but I could see it coming down to 22 to keep it competitive with Fel, OL, Inq, Scouts, ...

OK Joker.

Perhaps I should have phrased the question as "realistically want".

Thematic ordinance that isn't just one and since. When I fire an advanced Proton torpedo, I expect the target to disappear. And if it didn't I want to hit him again with it next turn.

We've talked a bit about roles and design space in the full Gunboat thread but I basically want something that can act as a reasonable Imperial equivalent to the Ion Cannon Turret BTL-A4 Y-Wing, and (also like the Y-Wing) stand as a reasonable ordnance carrier. Decent offence, decent control, decent dial and decent health. Not extraordinary, but competitively viable.

ATT: 4

AG: 2

H: 6

S: 6

Focus, TL, Evade, Boost, Cloak, Reinforce, SLAM

EPT, Cannon, Cannon, Cannon, Torp, Torp, Missile, Missile, Mine, Mine, System, Tech

Cost: probably in the 25-35 point, since it's an Imp ship, but I could see it coming down to 22 to keep it competitive with Fel, OL, Inq, Scouts, ...

OK Joker.

Perhaps I should have phrased the question as "realistically want".

I'm just trying to stay true to the old Flight Sim lore. It Mary Sue'd harder than the TIE "Mary Sue" Defender, while managing to look even more ugly and silly.

Yes I want the Krayt Gunship.

Gunship > Gunboat

We've talked a bit about roles and design space in the full Gunboat thread but I basically want something that can act as a reasonable Imperial equivalent to the Ion Cannon Turret BTL-A4 Y-Wing, and (also like the Y-Wing) stand as a reasonable ordnance carrier. Decent offence, decent control, decent dial and decent health. Not extraordinary, but competitively viable.

But wanting a ship that is decent at multiple roles necessarily means it is not competitive. This is X-Wing, and you need to find ships that can do their role hyper efficiently (e.g. Fel, Whisper, Inq, OL, CrackSwarm, Scout). Take a "jack of all trade ships" like the X-Wing and it's quite possibly the worst ship in the game. Or look at "upgrade heavy, customizable" ships like the Punisher and K-Wing. The only time we see them crop up, they're Miranda and running around Regen Spamming a TLT and nothing more. The Ghost is perhaps the only current exception, since it can be kitted out in a truly impressive variety of ways, but it's barely dangling on the cliffedge in the in this meta. It crops up sometimes in the Cut, but the lists don't survive the night against hyper efficient one-trick ships like Imp Aces or Deadeye Scouts.

To be fair, Penguin UK is right. This has been discussed, debated and theorycrafted many times on the Gunboat thread, and a lot of ideas and suggestions from the forum are conveniently included on the first page of that topic.

Now, if you're why the Gunboat fans (and a lot of X-Wing fans in general) would want to see it, nostalgia, rule of cool and a bit of aesthetic variety in the Imperial forces are the obvious answer.

If you're asking what role would it fill that the Imperials' don't currently have, that would be cheap, reasonably tough small based cannon carrier. So, a cheap ion platform, or flechette, or even tractor beam, with better maneuverability than a shuttle but no crew slot.

But what we really want, REALLY, is for people to get the name right.

We've talked a bit about roles and design space in the full Gunboat thread but I basically want something that can act as a reasonable Imperial equivalent to the Ion Cannon Turret BTL-A4 Y-Wing, and (also like the Y-Wing) stand as a reasonable ordnance carrier. Decent offence, decent control, decent dial and decent health. Not extraordinary, but competitively viable.

But wanting a ship that is decent at multiple roles necessarily means it is not competitive. This is X-Wing, and you need to find ships that can do their role hyper efficiently (e.g. Fel, Whisper, Inq, OL, CrackSwarm, Scout).

uh...no

I really don't understand where this "X-wing is a jack of all trades" mentality comes from

it isn't

in the fluff, it was an all-around craft capable of engaging fighters and even capital ships (something which was generally preserved in the video games too). In X-wing? It's a jouster that can barely joust. It does one thing, and that one thing it does poorly

you can have a flexible, versatile jack of all trades ship. Just look at the jm5k! (it's a turret, a torpedo boat, AND a blocker!)

similarly, arc-dodgers are ships that can arc-dodge but also very efficiently trade dice at certain ranges (generally 3). The inquisitor in particular is hellishly jousting efficient

We've talked a bit about roles and design space in the full Gunboat thread but I basically want something that can act as a reasonable Imperial equivalent to the Ion Cannon Turret BTL-A4 Y-Wing, and (also like the Y-Wing) stand as a reasonable ordnance carrier. Decent offence, decent control, decent dial and decent health. Not extraordinary, but competitively viable.

But wanting a ship that is decent at multiple roles necessarily means it is not competitive. This is X-Wing, and you need to find ships that can do their role hyper efficiently (e.g. Fel, Whisper, Inq, OL, CrackSwarm, Scout). Take a "jack of all trade ships" like the X-Wing and it's quite possibly the worst ship in the game. Or look at "upgrade heavy, customizable" ships like the Punisher and K-Wing. The only time we see them crop up, they're Miranda and running around Regen Spamming a TLT and nothing more. The Ghost is perhaps the only current exception, since it can be kitted out in a truly impressive variety of ways, but it's barely dangling on the cliffedge in the in this meta. It crops up sometimes in the Cut, but the lists don't survive the night against hyper efficient one-trick ships like Imp Aces or Deadeye Scouts.

At present you have some valid points! I'm optimistic that FFG is moving us closer to a metagame that allows for more choice in equipment, loadout, and ship selection.

Guidance Chips was the first part of this. You can take a Y-Wing with TLT or Chipped EM Proton Torp for the same cost at present and the only reason it isn't seen more often is because the Contracted Scout is a more effective application right now. The one Y-Wing is substantially cheaper, though, and two of them offer some serious punch for a solid 48 points. And you can still fill the Turret slot if you're so inclined; or else you can bring in another pair of Y-Wings with, say, TLTs or BTL-A4 ICTs. Run that control game.

There will always be a place for specialised surgical instruments like Fel and the Inquisitor; there will always be a place for powerhouses like the Torpedo Scout or Ghost. We're moving slowly into a realm where flexible ships can be costed and effective as well; the TIE Defender is the first of such ships.

I would had thought that the gunship should be a perfectly viable ship when not loaded with torps/missiles. Thats the difference to me from the punisher.

I would had thought that the gunship should be a perfectly viable ship when not loaded with torps/missiles. Thats the difference to me from the punisher.

Amen comrade

I see the gun-ship as being closer to the B-Wing than the Punisher. A heavy, upgradeable, cannon-based craft.

I see the Missile Boat as more analogous to the Punisher.

I would had thought that the gunship should be a perfectly viable ship when not loaded with torps/missiles. Thats the difference to me from the punisher.

Gunship?

Sure, I guess we could have that in the game. Would be an interesting one to design.

DX-9 Stormtrooper transport is what I'd call the perfect Gunship, though the ghost also could qualify.

Give it Firepower3, 2-3 crew choices or a team choice. 2 torpedo slots and a cannon. Don't give it a system slot.

Maybe 4 hull 4 shield?

1 agility.

Dial roughly the same as a shuttle.

If we get it, and I do hope we do it should be released with the LAAT space variant for rebels. As per battlefront they used them.

That too had missile and cannon, maybe even weird fire arcs for those turrets.

A Gunship wave would be neat!

An alternative gunship could be the wookiee one which Mcfoy mentioned, that'd be more rebel I would think, though can see it as scum. The KSE Firespray that Scum has kind of fits the bill, the Skipray Blastboat....

yes. That's the scum gunship.

Wave 10 for Gunships?

It would be interesting to see a gunship come out for Objective-Play scenarios.

GUNBOAT, small base starfighter

Gunship, large based patrol craft/transport

Ordnance, cannons, tons of hull and shields. BOAT should be abit more maneuverable, with a better dial, maybe more agility.

Honestly the Decimator is the Gunship for the Imps. Ghost makes a good Gunship for the Rebs. Seems like those roles are already filled.

Decimator is more a patrol craft IMO, to me a gunboat is heavy forward firepower with ordnance also.

The Kimo/krayt would be a good scum gunship. Front firepower 3, a tittle (krayt) adding a firepower point and a turret slot, dial not that great but 6 hull 5 shield or something.

i dont get why people have such a hardon for that ship.

It looks like a little brother of the Lamda Shuttle (which to me is one of the ugliest imp ships) and literally everything it sounds like it can do/would do/people offer up is either completely trumping another ship we already got or is way too **** cheap for what it does