If Deadeye was unique, what would that mean for the meta?

The U-boats would be nerfed, but how bad? Would they be crippled? Would they still be a viable choice? It would perhaps create new ways of building them? And one could still function like today.

Would it have any major ramifications for other lists?

I believe it could open up the meta and specifically the scum-lists to more ways of playing, but I'm just a novice, what do you experts say?

I'd feel a lot more comfortable flying B-Wings and K-Wings, that's for sure.

it would nerf torps and missles in general. every new wave people cry about the new meta.... 4TLTs, brobots, cloaking phantoms, big ships (just to name a few of the last waves). New wave = new meta = new counter list

it would nerf torps and missles in general.

It would nerf one specific build for torps and missiles. Outside of triple Scouts, there aren't many other situations where you'd be using Deadeye for more than one ship, even for torpedo and missile spam.

it would nerf torps and missles in general.

It would nerf one specific build for torps and missiles. Outside of triple Scouts, there aren't many other situations where you'd be using Deadeye for more than one ship, even for torpedo and missile spam.

Ahhh but imp vets are coming and there are ships that will love dead eye

Deadeye has been a pretty niche Elite ever since it came out in Wave 2 - and it's still the same now as it requires a very specific combination to make it work - the fact that it has finally found a home isn't sufficient reason to immediately nerf it

the meta will change, some new hotness will emerge, the sky does not fall, the landscape merely shifts

Deadeye has been a pretty niche Elite ever since it came out in Wave 2 - and it's still the same now as it requires a very specific combination to make it work - the fact that it has finally found a home isn't sufficient reason to immediately nerf it

the meta will change, some new hotness will emerge, the sky does not fall, the landscape merely shifts

+1

it would nerf torps and missles in general.

It would nerf one specific build for torps and missiles. Outside of triple Scouts, there aren't many other situations where you'd be using Deadeye for more than one ship, even for torpedo and missile spam.

Ahhh but imp vets are coming and there are ships that will love dead eye

Arguable, given that it's the combo of deadeye and r4 agromech/OCR4 that makes it really scary. Deadeye opens up your targetting with ordnance, but if it was that good, y-wings and firesprays would have been using (it with the EPT bot for y wings) forever, and they have distinctly not been.

Just being able to fire your 4 die attack doesn't make your four die attack better than a 3 die attack with a focus token, you need some mods on top to make it worthwhile. Chips might be enough, but I'm not sure.

it would nerf torps and missles in general. every new wave people cry about the new meta.... 4TLTs, brobots, cloaking phantoms, big ships (just to name a few of the last waves). New wave = new meta = new counter list

Deadeye was never the fix for ordnance, if making Deadeye unique nerfs missiles and torpedoes then something is seriously wrong with the game...

We would be talking about how the 35 Scout with Boba is a auto-include in every scum list. And that's supposedly bad design, but ****. having 2 or 3 scouts is EVEN WORSE.

I support Deadeye errata'd to unique.

Or deadeye is only equipable to one Jumpmaster.

Trust me, the rest of the ordnance boats don't care a whit about deadeye. They have better options.

I don't play 3 jump masters but i disagree it needs a nerf. Simple fact is every wave people run around crying about the new Meta "Nerf this --- Nerf that" etc. It happens in every wave and a few weeks after Imp Vets is out the meta will change and people will want somting new Nerved. Then the New falcon/black one will come out an then there will be a new Nerf and the the nex wave will need a nerf as well

If Deadeye was unique, I'd still slip it onto an Ion pulse missile Blount to make the Imp Aces at my FLGS raeg.

I played in Yavin last week. Were Jumpmasters pretty common? Yeah, but they didn't feel more common than some variety of Palp Aces, they didn't win the tournament, they weren't over represented in the top cut (there were 6 variations in the top 16 and there were 6 Palp shuttles too) and people can absolutely learn how to counter them and play against them.

The meta is evolving, people are developing counters and learning how they fly. And competitive Rebel builds are starting to come out again (though 20th was the best finish).

Is a Deadeye nerf needed? Absolutely not.

it would nerf torps and missles in general.

It would nerf one specific build for torps and missiles. Outside of triple Scouts, there aren't many other situations where you'd be using Deadeye for more than one ship, even for torpedo and missile spam.

Ahhh but imp vets are coming and there are ships that will love dead eye

Arguable, given that it's the combo of deadeye and r4 agromech/OCR4 that makes it really scary. Deadeye opens up your targetting with ordnance, but if it was that good, y-wings and firesprays would have been using (it with the EPT bot for y wings) forever, and they have distinctly not been.

Just being able to fire your 4 die attack doesn't make your four die attack better than a 3 die attack with a focus token, you need some mods on top to make it worthwhile. Chips might be enough, but I'm not sure.

Indeed Deadeye's problem was always that it just changed the token needed to fire a missile / torp - so all it ever did was just shift the burden from one place to another - it didn't address the fundamental weaknesses of poor action economy / lack of dice modification that ordnance had always suffered from.

The minor improvement in target flexibility that it granted simply wasn't worth the points once you'd added the cost of a missile / torp on top.

And for every ship that can't take both an Elite AND a R4 / OC R4, AND come in at 33ish points, AND has a big fat stack of Hit points, AND a PWT for when they get arc- dodged - that problem still remains.

If Palpatine was huge ship only?

I played in Yavin last week. Were Jumpmasters pretty common? Yeah, but they didn't feel more common than some variety of Palp Aces, they didn't win the tournament, they weren't over represented in the top cut (there were 6 variations in the top 16 and there were 6 Palp shuttles too) and people can absolutely learn how to counter them and play against them.

The meta is evolving, people are developing counters and learning how they fly.

I played in Yavin last week. Were Jumpmasters pretty common? Yeah, but they didn't feel more common than some variety of Palp Aces, they didn't win the tournament, they weren't over represented in the top cut (there were 6 variations in the top 16 and there were 6 Palp shuttles too) and people can absolutely learn how to counter them and play against them.

The meta is evolving, people are developing counters and learning how they fly.

Yeah, people learned that Palp Aces is the way to fly against the toilets.

Naw, Palp Aces being good vs JumpMasters was just an added bonus.

JumpMasters pushing out stresshogs, TLT spammers, fat PTWs and cruddy Rebel regen, that was what let Palp Ace players back into the competitive environment.

Yeah, double regen lists were what was keeping palp/aces in check, it was tough for palp/aces to get the spike damage to take double regen down in a timed format.

But superior spike damage put paid to regen lists a lot harder than it countered palp/aces.

could always just replace a scout with VI, dengar, title zuckuss

tbh for me being a newer player i'm not as worried as I was about them.

I mainly run Palp Aces and I was worried about it but I recently made 1 change to my palp shuttle build and just one additional card has made a huge impact in games.

Reinforced deflectors.

It might seem a bad card but dis counting direct hits. if 3 u boats fire at a palp shuttle and it fails to evade a single hit and they get all 4 hits every time, it means the palp shuttle dies exactly. No much but in other match ups, Ghost Dash, this card proved itself to me.

I started playing in January and not been through all the Meta shifts as a lot of people on here but surely to overcome some list you either need to slightly change your approach to it or just look to see if any cards might have a change to it.

For rebels won't this mean we could see Wes played more for stripping things, I have no idea but surely we can just change the way we think and how we approach the problem rather then cry foul and demand nerfs.

could always just replace a scout with VI, dengar, title zuckuss

TBH, I think there's a lot more mileage long-term in the third ship not being a torpscout, and either being a bumpmaster or something else entirely.

I was toying with running Tel, Manaroo and N'Dru at Yavin, as a list intended to out-alpha the JMs - N'Dru should be able to kill one by himself with Cluster missiles and a round or two of fire, and has a ~88% chance to only lose shields to a single torpedo with Lone Wolf, whilst Mana and Tel ought to be able to do for another one between them and/or arcdodge as necessary, and the list as a whole has a lot of extra benefits, particularly out-PSing crackswarms, and Tel's extra little hit of toughness.

But I ended up running something else for practical reasons.

No, anyone that suggests this has no true idea of what the implications it would cause. Nor that it isn't the be all end all. Stop your bell aching and quite literally, get gud. There I said it. Now if you have a thought about this, let's dredge up the 15+ topics on this very subject, there was a lot of discussions already about why this isn't the "problem".

If they did this, people would just move onto the next thing to complain about.

If three months from now, all we're seeing is ordnance carrier spam that depends on deadeye, then maybe. Otherwise, see if the game evolves without intervention.

After running Triple Jumpmasters in a local tourney a few weeks ago and only taking 3rd, I can say that it's a strong list, but not unbeatable. Granted, the only list that has beaten me out of almost 15 games with the list is 6 Zs with Conc missiles, but that's also because I consider myself a rather decent player. My take on the list is that it still needs to be flown well to perform, like any list. Also, it's not like you see jumpmasters taking 1st at, well, any tournament really. For that, go talk to the Inquisitor, Omega Leader, and Palpmobile.

Nerfing Deadeye is unnecessary. There are 2 ways to deal with Triple Jumpmasters:

A. If in a casual setting, simply ask your opponent not to play something like that. Or don't play that person.

B. If in a tournament setting, build a list to expect fighting against it. As someone mentioned, "Git Gud". It is a tournament, after all.