I see really no problem with the T70.
It is a good sturdy ship, with a potent punch and even some repositionning. Plus, it is one of the only rebel sips with an EpT on generics.

Of course, Poe being the best (for its value) pilot, he is the one you will see in tournamenrts.
'cos yeah, tournaments will allways reduce the options of a game to only its most profitable pieces.

I find the T-70 has the same problem as the T-65 in that I could just take a B-Wing instead.

I've been desperately trying to make Red Squadron Vets work, but they melt too quickly under fire. The B-Wing has the health to weather a lot of fire, whereas the A-Wing has the agility and (hopefully) modifiers to do the same. Both X-Wings operate in a weird no-man's-land where they haven't got enough of either one to make up for deficiencies in the other. IA and Autothrusters help, but they're not enough to be a good jouster.

Now, if they could reliably get an evade token every turn, it would be a different story. I'm hoping the generic R3 that comes with the ARC-170 will do something along those lines.

Red Ace was definitely a thing for five whole minutes until U-boats and Palp Aces came along to kill Rebel Shield Regen lists.

U-boats are PS3 whereas all the ships in the Regen list are PS6+. T70s have a boost action meaning that if you are careful, it should be quite hard for the opponent to catch you in torpedo range and even harder for him to catch 1 ship with multiple torps.

I am not saying it would be an easy matchup but I think it is not the auto-erase some people seem to think. Heck, chuck Biggs in there and he will eat half your opponent's torpedoes. Suddenly Poe and Red Ace start to look a lot safer.

Only flown against them but never really struggled to kill em which is part of the reason I'm sceptical that the cog will be worth using.

I quite like a pair of RSV backing up a Ghost. They have the fire power and beef to be annoying while causing some choices on which to go for?

My biggest decision with them is IA or Autos?

My biggest decision with them is IA or Autos?

I guess it depends on whether or not you are planning to take astromechs anyway. I normally run my Rebel regen squad with IA since R2-D2 and R5-P9 are there already.

If you are not buying astromechs anyway then IA effectively costs 1 point. In that case, spending the extra point on Autothrusters might be worthwhile. This is especially true with Ordnance becoming more prevalent and JumpMasters representing another popular turret carrier. Extra protection at Range 3 and when out of arc becomes more appealing.

The T-70 is fine, this is more of a meta problem. The two strongest lists are Uboats and Palp Aces, which represent two factors X-Wings struggle against, namely extreme bursts damage and very high pilot skill combined with multiple forms of arc dodging. As soon as some third option becomes popular, the T-70 will be much more viable.

The ship could use some decent mid PS named pilots, but I'm sure Heroes will deliver just that.

Too expensive for low-skillers (you pay for the boost you don't use nor need)

medium-PS aren't needed

Poe was good ans is good

Seems legit.

It's like E-wing and Starvipers (except that SV didn't even get a single top-tier pilot)

I dunno. I've seen 4 x Blue Squadron Novice do okay and done okay with it myself.

Yes, it's anecdotal, but it felt effective against quite a range of opponents. With 3 hull, 3 shields and Integrated Astromech, they are **** tough for a 4-ship squad, and tough enough to tolerate boosting (and being stuck with unmodified dice) occasionally.

Boost is useful for blocking, as is the option of Talon rolls, and the R2 astromech is nice for being able to come out of a roll into a hard turn.

I'd personally build an eldar aspect-style squad instead.

why take all-rounders when you can take two A-wing prototypes for roughly the same cost, with super-effective blocking capability

and stuff some good old-fashioned B-wings on top of that. Maybe even the kitted ones, if need be.

The cost of T-70 doesn't feel right to make it a blocker!

Well, problem #1, you used IA over Autothrusters. I mean, it's even in your name, fickle.

tried it before

it's very eh, basically amounting to the same as integrated anyway

esp when my playstyle with red vets is too aggressive to be triggering thrusters all the time. They just seem far more useful on higher pilot skill

more importantly, IA is 0 points which means two seismics on miranda

I've been rather unimpressed with most of them myself, although I am hoping the new tech slots and pilots add some interesting builds. I've taken lists with Blue Ace, Ello, and Poe before and in matchups against low PS generics they can really fly rings around an opponent. Unlike the T65 they at least do fly like space superiority fighters. Like many other ships, the mid PS pilots suffer from not having an EPT slot, which is frustrating.

Sometimes I think PGS and FGD are the same person... In my mind they have merged into one. Fickleslayer.

****, its' like a swear word!

I stub my toes!

Oh fickleslayer!

So FGD also hates fat turrets, however he thinks Super Dash is fine because of the range one doughnut. I've tried pointing out to him that the doughnut is irrelevant considering the way Dash moves but whatever. I think the PWT vs. Secondary Weapon Turret thing is meaningless, either way you're ignoring the main part of why this game is fun, the maneuver dials.

He really likes Conner Nets and Deathrain. I've yet to fly Deathrain.

I don't see what is wrong with FGD's post. The T-70 is an overpriced generic. By the time you put a few upgrades into one of the PS 4 ones you could have an Inquisitor or an Omega Leader for the same or less points, or those 2 A's and a missile Tala instead of two. They're not priced well in comparison to other generics let alone Acewings.

They're a genericwing ship that's a tad bit too costly in a meta where genericwing ships that are decently costed can't even hold a candle to an equivalent or lesser amount of points put into an Acewing.

the only meaningful advantages I find that T-70s have over the inquisitor is t-rolling and looking awesome

idk why I like the models so much, but there's something striking about their profiles that just makes me want them on the table despite my better judgement

I think T70s are better in groups. 1v1, they lose the maneuver battle vs an ace, but with more ships, one (and it doesn't matter which) can be a blocker, while the others shoot their not inconsequential primaries. They key is keeping them relatively cheap so they stay fairly tough for the points. I do love those Talon Rolls, too. Instead of 2 Seismics, is a Connor Net an option?

I mean, the T-70 is better than the T-65 at least. Because it has ways to transcend that godawful jousting profile.

The Troll and Boost mean it has a lot more options than just jousting. The extra shield + IA mean it has a fair chance of tanking a JM5Ks torpedo salvo, where it's older brother would drown in crits. Generics with EPTs are always nice. Juke + Comms Relay and Jan Ors was a thing once wasn't it?

I mean, maybe 'it's better than the T-65' isn't very high praise. But at least there are ways to make it work.

Now that my regional season is over, I've been brainstorming lists I want to fly, mostly for fun, but this is typically how I end up getting started on competitive lists anyways. Right now I'm looking at trying out a variation on a rebel regen list, utilizing the T70s.

Poe w/ R5P9, Comms Relay, Adaptability, AT

Red Ace w/ R2D2 Comms Relay, AT

Ezra w/ Jan, Rage

I haven't run it yet, but it seems in theory to work well... The 3 points for Comms on Poe basically gives him another shield to start the game, and if he can ever break off completely, Ezra can hand him another one. Red Ace obviously creates his own evades, so Comms makes sense on him. And then Ezra can Rage for the offensive rerolls, and turn those focuses into evades, and spend Jan's evade token to get a 3rd one.

Not saying it's the end all, but it seems fun and trolly. As for the Uboats thing - I don't really see how they would stack up well. You shouldn't allow all 3 to get a shot, but if we say 2 have a shot to start with, and they go for Poe, then he is almost guaranteed 2 evades via AT and his ability, plus a 3rd from the token - he loses 2 shields (assuming plasma), the next one does a shield and a crit, then at the end phase he regens a shield, leaving him with 2 hull 1 shield. Meanwhile you've pumped 9 dice into unmodified greens, likely doing at least 5 damage to one of them... but Poe can break off and regen if you want. Or you can kill that first one before it gets a second shot off, and likely lose Poe in the second round, but now your opponent has Ezra and Red Ace left untouched, against 2 torps remaining across 2 U boats.

From there, Red Ace should basically always have an evade token for each shot - he can start the round with an evade action if he's going to get shot by torps, spend the token to reduce damage from the torp by 1 (plus probably a second at least from his greens), to lose 2 shields, and to get another evade token for the next shot. Which could potentially once again push a crit through if you allowed both torps to be shot in the same round (which a good player won't allow). But now you have AT, consta evade tokens, and regen. Not to mention Ezra. I really think the match up favors the rebel regen over the Uboats.

The flipside is that they go for Ezra first to get him off the table and shut down some of the Comms Relay shenangians. The problem with that is that while they can kill him easily, you're now left going against Poe and Red Ace without your torps, your opening salvo, and you have to contend with ATs. Not a good match up for the rest of the fight.

Yeah, I'm no X-Wing geek, but I think all the whining about T-70s and T-65s is a bit of schoolyard frustration. I think the ships are great due to the fact that they do all things well without being really great at one thing and completely lacking in another; they're an all-around work-horse. I mean, what about the mid-PS T-70 ships? Yeah, I'm a novice and I don't win tournaments (so disregard this if you you're an x-wing winner, haha) but these are sweet on the board:

PS5 Support Punch (29 points): BB-8 (2) + Integrated Astromech (0)

PS5 Ace (30 points): R7-T1 (3) + Integrated Astromech (0)

Ps5 Predator (31 points): R2-D6 "Talentbot" (1) + Predator (3) + Integrated Astromech (0)

Looks good. I have run a very similar in the past but with Jan in a TLT HWK. Raging Ezra offers a better damage output and lower cost albeit slightly less flexibility.

I think it is a strong list although I agree U-boats will be a tough match-up. However, as you point out, all 3 ships are higher PS than U-boats and have a post-manoeuvre action available. This means the chances of firing all 3 torpedos in 1 turn or catching a ship in arc for more than 1 torpedo should be minimal.

Slow rolling the first couple of turns while you charge up your Comms Relays seems like the sensible approach. I had been think of running Poe and Red Ace with Biggs for torpedo mitigation but Raging Ezra looks a promising option too.

I don't get where this perception of x-wings as "jack of all trades" comes from in the game. In the fluff yeah, in here not so much

all ships can move and throw dice. The x-wing doesn't even do it particularly well.

the t-70 at least has boost and t-roll and epts on the ps 4 generic, so it has some worth ito being fun and deserving of a "jack of all trades" moniker (even if it can't really serve as an ordnance boat, have a turret, drop bombs, pack guaranteed damage...). All the t-65 has to distinguish it is its unique pilots, namely biggs

I think T70s are better in groups. 1v1, they lose the maneuver battle vs an ace, but with more ships, one (and it doesn't matter which) can be a blocker, while the others shoot their not inconsequential primaries. They key is keeping them relatively cheap so they stay fairly tough for the points. I do love those Talon Rolls, too. Instead of 2 Seismics, is a Connor Net an option?

on miranda? nope

high PS and attack dependent makes drop-on-dial-reveal bombs far preferable

not that she has any problems with PS 8 palp aces. with initiative bid and sabine, it's all but a done deal

Sometimes I think PGS and FGD are the same person... In my mind they have merged into one. Fickleslayer.

****, its' like a swear word!

I stub my toes!

Oh fickleslayer!

So FGD also hates fat turrets, however he thinks Super Dash is fine because of the range one doughnut. I've tried pointing out to him that the doughnut is irrelevant considering the way Dash moves but whatever. I think the PWT vs. Secondary Weapon Turret thing is meaningless, either way you're ignoring the main part of why this game is fun, the maneuver dials.

He really likes Conner Nets and Deathrain. I've yet to fly Deathrain.

I don't see what is wrong with FGD's post. The T-70 is an overpriced generic. By the time you put a few upgrades into one of the PS 4 ones you could have an Inquisitor or an Omega Leader for the same or less points, or those 2 A's and a missile Tala instead of two. They're not priced well in comparison to other generics let alone Acewings.

They're a genericwing ship that's a tad bit too costly in a meta where genericwing ships that are decently costed can't even hold a candle to an equivalent or lesser amount of points put into an Acewing.

Oh I'm just havin' a bit of fun. The two of you can get quite adamant but you know, there are probably folks out there right now thinking 'oh FFS, Fickleslayercloak! Shut up!'...

Anyways, the T-70 is expensive there is no doubt about that, but I think it's appropriate. If you could fit 5 X-Wings of any flavour in a squad I think that would be broken. Look at the K-Fighter, you can do 5K and that's a pretty solid list. It' not OP, but it's not going to fall flat on it's own face when faced with a traditional tourney list. If those K's were a little cheaper and you could trick them out more, or if they had a better statline like the T-70, then that list would be the top Scum list I'm sure of it. What can compare to 15 attack dice, really? So throw in some toys, or make it cheaper and suddenly people will ask, why spend the points on two Crack A's when you can just get a T-70?

No, I think if the T-70 were any better, it would be too good and it would quickly become the new kicking mutt.

pretty sure the incredibly fringe performance of 5 special-Ks shows that you could have 5 t-65s in a list without even beginning to approach broken

apart from keeping the thematic point increase between the Tie and Tie/fo v T-65 and T-70, they could've been at the very least a point cheaper without doing any harm to the game

which would be "free" crackshot, which would only improve things

Never overestimate 2 dice attacks....

I've played enough A-Wings to see how undependable they are.

honestly, after sunday having t-70s fail to kill a 1 hull ghost in two different games despite TA, I have limited faith in 3 dice too

of course, both times the unmodified ghost shot back and either killed or slapped the t-70 with a damaged cockpit

3 attack dice with a focus is now sub-par. It cannot reliably do anything to an Acewing, and against other ships the dice can fail on you occasionally. Acewings with their token stacks and Palpatine do not fail on you. A Jumpnaster's torpedoes do not typically fail.

If you roll hit focus blank and spend your focus, you're still probably not doing much. Against a 2 agility ship like a Jumpmaster or Dash (if you some how have a shot on him) your opponent is probably getting an evade, and with some luck can double evade.

Against an Acewing you're not doing anything at all.

This is why AC Tempests fizzled out. 2/2 hits always is great if you're facing other Jousters. Against Acewings you're screwed.