Intel had my brace concerns pretty much covered, but in the end, ordnance did a **** fine job for the cost

I just like gunnery teams When I run an ISD, especially if you are going last first, you can really jam that ISD strait in so you get a great chance of two ships in arc, it also means I can pop at fighters as well as a ship, so although I agree with OE being a great choice I've tended to use leading shots. I tend to use Demo first ( with Intel officer) to cut out the brace and cause most damage, ISD runs in to deliver the kill, hammer and pin a second ship, ready for demo to come back in.....

I just like gunnery teams When I run an ISD, especially if you are going last first, you can really jam that ISD strait in so you get a great chance of two ships in arc, it also means I can pop at fighters as well as a ship, so although I agree with OE being a great choice I've tended to use leading shots. I tend to use Demo first ( with Intel officer) to cut out the brace and cause most damage, ISD runs in to deliver the kill, hammer and pin a second ship, ready for demo to come back in.....

Yes, in this case I can see the argument for Leading shots. I ended up not taking Gunnery teams to maximize my chance of one-shotting a ship from a front arc (nevermind double-arc) shot.

I just like gunnery teams When I run an ISD, especially if you are going last first, you can really jam that ISD strait in so you get a great chance of two ships in arc, it also means I can pop at fighters as well as a ship, so although I agree with OE being a great choice I've tended to use leading shots. I tend to use Demo first ( with Intel officer) to cut out the brace and cause most damage, ISD runs in to deliver the kill, hammer and pin a second ship, ready for demo to come back in.....

I have to say, the side rerolls didn't really come into effect much, so the front was where it counted, so yeah I think I may try leading shots and gunnery on it next time. Loved throwing that ISD right in, it was insane, but great, great fun muahaha

I just like gunnery teams When I run an ISD, especially if you are going last first, you can really jam that ISD strait in so you get a great chance of two ships in arc, it also means I can pop at fighters as well as a ship, so although I agree with OE being a great choice I've tended to use leading shots. I tend to use Demo first ( with Intel officer) to cut out the brace and cause most damage, ISD runs in to deliver the kill, hammer and pin a second ship, ready for demo to come back in.....

I have to say, the side rerolls didn't really come into effect much, so the front was where it counted, so yeah I think I may try leading shots and gunnery on it next time. Loved throwing that ISD right in, it was insane, but great, great fun muahaha

It all depends on the play style. If you drive it agressively and don't get first player, people will often end up in the side arc while trying to fly away from a close range front shot. And side arc of an ISD is as bad as a front arc of a Demo.

I just like gunnery teams When I run an ISD, especially if you are going last first, you can really jam that ISD strait in so you get a great chance of two ships in arc, it also means I can pop at fighters as well as a ship, so although I agree with OE being a great choice I've tended to use leading shots. I tend to use Demo first ( with Intel officer) to cut out the brace and cause most damage, ISD runs in to deliver the kill, hammer and pin a second ship, ready for demo to come back in.....

I have to say, the side rerolls didn't really come into effect much, so the front was where it counted, so yeah I think I may try leading shots and gunnery on it next time. Loved throwing that ISD right in, it was insane, but great, great fun muahaha

It all depends on the play style. If you drive it agressively and don't get first player, people will often end up in the side arc while trying to fly away from a close range front shot. And side arc of an ISD is as bad as a front arc of a Demo.

Good shout. Overall, I've come round on the ISD-I, Its a beast!

Speed three ISD punch to the face just after Demo knifes them in back, the poor ryhmer balll won't know which threat to deal with....... Damage output is mad..... Just engineer your ISD.cus he's going to take a pasting....... Simple but sooooo much fun.

Speed three ISD punch to the face just after Demo knifes them in back, the poor ryhmer balll won't know which threat to deal with....... Damage output is mad..... Just engineer your ISD.cus he's going to take a pasting....... Simple but sooooo much fun.

Nah, no time for repairs, FIRE ALL TURBOLASERS, FULL STEAM AHEAD! NAV ALL THE WAY!

The answer is sensor teams btw

So Leading Shots but with a worse effect that costs an additional point?

How is doubling damage by blocking brace in your opinion 'worse'?

Because the prevalence of ECMs means that you don't guarantee doubling your damage (or, rather, not halving it). It's also ineffective against CR90s and MC30s, which are very common. It means two dice are doing no damage instead of one. And if you have a completely crap roll, it does nothing.

Of course, it's meta dependent, too. In my area, almost every ship that can take ECMs has ECMs, so a single Accuracy won't do much.

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

The benefit is there, no doubt. But it's just way too small compared with the ability to reroll those dices and get 2-4 extra damage.

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

True, but at Long Range, you're now relying on two dice to do damage. You only roll five and have to sacrifice one to trigger ST, then you're flipping another to an Accuracy. And guarantee that your best die is getting cancelled via Evade. So maybe two damage?

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

True, but at Long Range, you're now relying on two dice to do damage. You only roll five and have to sacrifice one to trigger ST, then you're flipping another to an Accuracy. And guarantee that your best die is getting cancelled via Evade. So maybe two damage?

At medium range, 3red 2blue. Chances of rolling at least 1 blank and no accuracies? Allows turning a hit into an acc. Shoot the rear and you niow have a high chance of doing 3 hull damage to the corvette at least.

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

True, but at Long Range, you're now relying on two dice to do damage. You only roll five and have to sacrifice one to trigger ST, then you're flipping another to an Accuracy. And guarantee that your best die is getting cancelled via Evade. So maybe two damage?

And this is worse than OE how?

At medium range, 3red 2blue. Chances of rolling at least 1 blank and no accuracies? Allows turning a hit into an acc. Shoot the rear and you niow have a high chance of doing 3 hull damage to the corvette at least.

And the corvette is still alive. Compared to the increased chance of killing full-health ships at close range. As I'm saying, the benefit is there but it is much less then the alternatives (And again, I'm talking only about ISD1. On other ships the equation is different)

I'm not talking about OE. Remember that the OP was debating between OE and Leading Shots. You inserted Sensor Teams into the conversation. ST vs. OE is a different conversation. I was debating ST vs. LS.

And when you get to Close Range, that becomes an entirely different debate. Right now on an average roll, Sensor Teams will be better against anything except for CR90s, Nebulon-Bs and anything with ECMs. When wave four comes out, add the MC80 Liberty to that list with its redundant Braces. But, as I said, now you're getting into a meta dependency. In my area, ECMs are pretty popular, so that Accuracy does nothing for me. Increasing the damage through re-rolls (I prefer LS and OE, but that's just me) can do a lot.

When Flotillas come out, ST on a ship with a lot of Red dice will be golden. Since you can't get a re-roll on Red dice (other than Vader or the upcoming Veteran Gunners), if you're throwing five or six of them, you have a high chance of two blanks. So being able to lock down that Scatter at Long Range can be huge. But again, that'll depend on how many flotillas are in your local meta.

In my opinion, Leading Shots is the better "All Comers" option over Sensor Teams. ST is too niche to be of service in every situation. Leading Shots will always have an impact.

Turning back to LS vs. OE, I'd choose LS (though, again, my preference is both). LS will serve you well at all ranges. And the reason I say to take both is because you can aggressively re-roll your Black dice. With a Concentrate Fire dial, you can roll five Blacks, so probably HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Use LS to pick up everything except the HIT/CRIT, and you should get HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Now OE the blank for (probably) another HIT. Statistically, you should increase your damage from five to seven, and you are also re-rolling your blank Reds.

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

True, but at Long Range, you're now relying on two dice to do damage. You only roll five and have to sacrifice one to trigger ST, then you're flipping another to an Accuracy. And guarantee that your best die is getting cancelled via Evade. So maybe two damage?

And this is worse than OE how?

At medium range, 3red 2blue. Chances of rolling at least 1 blank and no accuracies? Allows turning a hit into an acc. Shoot the rear and you niow have a high chance of doing 3 hull damage to the corvette at least.

And the corvette is still alive. Compared to the increased chance of killing full-health ships at close range. As I'm saying, the benefit is there but it is much less then the alternatives (And again, I'm talking only about ISD1. On other ships the equation is different)

Its also in front of your ship in the direction you are travelling.....

Reegsk. LS is useless at long range and the wrong tool at close range. I fail to see your argument. You admit sensor team is better at close range, so when is it not better?

I'm not talking about OE. Remember that the OP was debating between OE and Leading Shots. You inserted Sensor Teams into the conversation. ST vs. OE is a different conversation. I was debating ST vs. LS.

And when you get to Close Range, that becomes an entirely different debate. Right now on an average roll, Sensor Teams will be better against anything except for CR90s, Nebulon-Bs and anything with ECMs. When wave four comes out, add the MC80 Liberty to that list with its redundant Braces. But, as I said, now you're getting into a meta dependency. In my area, ECMs are pretty popular, so that Accuracy does nothing for me. Increasing the damage through re-rolls (I prefer LS and OE, but that's just me) can do a lot.

When Flotillas come out, ST on a ship with a lot of Red dice will be golden. Since you can't get a re-roll on Red dice (other than Vader or the upcoming Veteran Gunners), if you're throwing five or six of them, you have a high chance of two blanks. So being able to lock down that Scatter at Long Range can be huge. But again, that'll depend on how many flotillas are in your local meta.

In my opinion, Leading Shots is the better "All Comers" option over Sensor Teams. ST is too niche to be of service in every situation. Leading Shots will always have an impact.

Turning back to LS vs. OE, I'd choose LS (though, again, my preference is both). LS will serve you well at all ranges. And the reason I say to take both is because you can aggressively re-roll your Black dice. With a Concentrate Fire dial, you can roll five Blacks, so probably HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Use LS to pick up everything except the HIT/CRIT, and you should get HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Now OE the blank for (probably) another HIT. Statistically, you should increase your damage from five to seven, and you are also re-rolling your blank Reds.

That's a lot of rerolls..... Although they are still no replacement for a sure thing...... The thing that Scree, ST and TLRC have going for them is that they will remove the hell which is common cause variation. I will never forget the time I rolled 12 black dice with OE rerolls on all of them and did not get a single crit.......

I'm not talking about OE. Remember that the OP was debating between OE and Leading Shots. You inserted Sensor Teams into the conversation. ST vs. OE is a different conversation. I was debating ST vs. LS.

And when you get to Close Range, that becomes an entirely different debate. Right now on an average roll, Sensor Teams will be better against anything except for CR90s, Nebulon-Bs and anything with ECMs. When wave four comes out, add the MC80 Liberty to that list with its redundant Braces. But, as I said, now you're getting into a meta dependency. In my area, ECMs are pretty popular, so that Accuracy does nothing for me. Increasing the damage through re-rolls (I prefer LS and OE, but that's just me) can do a lot.

When Flotillas come out, ST on a ship with a lot of Red dice will be golden. Since you can't get a re-roll on Red dice (other than Vader or the upcoming Veteran Gunners), if you're throwing five or six of them, you have a high chance of two blanks. So being able to lock down that Scatter at Long Range can be huge. But again, that'll depend on how many flotillas are in your local meta.

In my opinion, Leading Shots is the better "All Comers" option over Sensor Teams. ST is too niche to be of service in every situation. Leading Shots will always have an impact.

Turning back to LS vs. OE, I'd choose LS (though, again, my preference is both). LS will serve you well at all ranges. And the reason I say to take both is because you can aggressively re-roll your Black dice. With a Concentrate Fire dial, you can roll five Blacks, so probably HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Use LS to pick up everything except the HIT/CRIT, and you should get HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Now OE the blank for (probably) another HIT. Statistically, you should increase your damage from five to seven, and you are also re-rolling your blank Reds.

That's a lot of rerolls..... Although they are still no replacement for a sure thing...... The thing that Scree, ST and TLRC have going for them is that they will remove the hell which is common cause variation. I will never forget the time I rolled 12 black dice with OE rerolls on all of them and did not get a single crit.......

Thats.... that's hearbreaking

Turning back to LS vs. OE, I'd choose LS (though, again, my preference is both). LS will serve you well at all ranges. And the reason I say to take both is because you can aggressively re-roll your Black dice. With a Concentrate Fire dial, you can roll five Blacks, so probably HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Use LS to pick up everything except the HIT/CRIT, and you should get HIT, HIT, HIT/CRIT, BLANK. Now OE the blank for (probably) another HIT. Statistically, you should increase your damage from five to seven, and you are also re-rolling your blank Reds.

I believe that the only configuration LS is better then OE is a Gunnery team one. Otherwise LS is better at medium range and much worse at close range. As for taking both LS and OE, it's the question of cost (For me tractor beams may be a better play for example). Also your calculation assumes CF command (which may be rare with ISD1, both Nav and Engineering are usually a better play) and doesn't account for a loss of hit for LS. ISD1 native front arc is 3 blacks (it doesn't impact your calculation though)

Cr90s dont like losing their redirect much! Still two damage less needed.

True, but at Long Range, you're now relying on two dice to do damage. You only roll five and have to sacrifice one to trigger ST, then you're flipping another to an Accuracy. And guarantee that your best die is getting cancelled via Evade. So maybe two damage?

And this is worse than OE how?

At medium range, 3red 2blue. Chances of rolling at least 1 blank and no accuracies? Allows turning a hit into an acc. Shoot the rear and you niow have a high chance of doing 3 hull damage to the corvette at least.

And the corvette is still alive. Compared to the increased chance of killing full-health ships at close range. As I'm saying, the benefit is there but it is much less then the alternatives (And again, I'm talking only about ISD1. On other ships the equation is different)

Its also in front of your ship in the direction you are travelling.....

Reegsk. LS is useless at long range and the wrong tool at close range. I fail to see your argument. You admit sensor team is better at close range, so when is it not better?

When did I say Sensor Teams are better at close range?

And remember, this conversation is about upgrades for an ISD-I. So let's be sure to stay on topic. And we need to remember what ship it's being used on. An ISD is not the ship you use to exhaust defense tokens for a lethal follow up shot (unless you're running dual ISDs), it's there to deliver the lethal follow up shot. Its purpose as a gunship is to deal the most raw damage in the game, which it excels at. So Sensor Teams on an ISD-I is only useful against ships without ECM and without redundant defense tokens.

With that in mind, let's compare ranges:

Long Range

OE and LS have no effect. ST has an effect in the sense that it can be triggered, but the impact is incredibly low. You're rolling three dice, and two are needed to trigger ST, so you'll only use it if you roll two blanks. And even then, it'll only help against a Nebulon-B (because you can lock the lone Evade), or against an MC80/ISD/VSD when you've rolled a HIT/HIT, because they can't Brace it down to one damage. Anything else and you're looking at one damage that will just be Redirected or Evaded entirely, and you're getting a maximum of one damage (CR90/Raider/MC30 will Evade the remaining die, AF/Gladiator will Brace/Redirect a HIT/HIT or Redirect a HIT assuming you lock the Evade). If you roll an Accuracy, damage on all three dice, or no damage, ST has no effect.

Medium Range

OE has no effect.

ST - This will increase damage by an average of one over doing nothing in most situations. As soon as you roll an Accuracy, its usefulness declines. It is better than LS on average rolls (with few blanks and accuracies) and high-damage rolls (where every die has damage and at least one HIT/HIT). Again, this only matters against ships without ECM or redundant Brace. So ST are a guaranteed effect with an average bump of one damage, though its effectiveness decreases as the original roll's damage decreases.

LS - You aren't going to use LS unless you have a bad roll (multiple accuracies and blanks). Its end effect is random, although mathematically it should increase the original roll. Against targets with a Brace when you do not roll an Accuracy, it will do less damage than ST. LS is insurance against a crap roll with random results.

Close Range

OE - On average, you'll increase the damage of your Black dice by one.

ST - Pretty much the same as Medium Range. It has a much greater damage potential now because Evades are useless and your damage capacity is higher.

LS - Pretty much the same as Medium Range.

Conclusion

In my mind, now that I've taken a closer look, ST is a guaranteed bump of one damage at all three ranges, but it's no help against ECM. LS is insurance against a crap roll at Medium/Close Range. OE will increase your damage by one at Close Range.

In my meta, with the prevalence of ECMs on the ships that can take it, ST will be pretty useless.

And when you get to Close Range, that becomes an entirely different debate. Right now on an average roll, Sensor Teams will be better against anything except for CR90s, Nebulon-Bs and anything with ECMs.

On your recent post, I agree there is a case for OE instead, but there is never a case for leading shots on an ISD.

In my meta, with the prevalence of ECMs on the ships that can take it, ST will be pretty useless.

ST is eliminated as an option in such a meta. So you have OE which will increase your black dice damage by one, but do nothing to help your red and do nothing at Medium Range. Or you have LS, which will have the same effect as OE at Close Range plus re-roll your reds (and the cancelled blue die is a wash with the bump in black dice damage), AND give you insurance against a crap roll at Medium Range where OE is useless.

So you have OE which will increase your black dice damage by one, but do nothing to help your red and do nothing at Medium Range. Or you have LS, which will have the same effect as OE at Close Range plus re-roll your reds (and the cancelled blue die is a wash with the bump in black dice damage), AND give you insurance against a crap roll at Medium Range where OE is useless.

It is a pretty good analysis however I think you're underestimating OE effect.

1. OE allows to reroll side arc blacks (which makes them much more dangerous and is huge in the case of double-arc)

2. On a front arc OE is straight better if there are no blank reds (which happens around 42% of the time). And another 4% of the time you happen to have a double-accuracy and are unwilling to spend it for rerolls.

3. On a good roll OE allows you to reroll single hits for that 12-25% chance of damage increase that is enough to kill a ship (or you don't care about losing a hit due to even number of hits being braced). As LS forces you to lose a die you can't make the same trade there.

4. At close range OE also protects against bad rolls, although to a bit lesser extent. Keep in mind that once you have 3-5 hits, multiple accuracies are suddenly not so bad (and may be deadly against certain ships)

However I see the benefit of LS over OE for a carrier ISD1 that is supposed to stay away from the fight most of the time (or may want to use flight controllers). So it's all again about intended usage of a ship.

Personally, I like both. It's 8pts and I shy away from Gunnery Teams on an ISD-I anyway, because you won't often get two ships in Close Range at the same time.

Oh, and I think I mentioned this earlier, ships that throw lots of Reds will love Sensor Teams and/or H9s if flotillas really explode.

Personally, I like both. It's 8pts and I shy away from Gunnery Teams on an ISD-I anyway, because you won't often get two ships in Close Range at the same time.

Oh, and I think I mentioned this earlier, ships that throw lots of Reds will love Sensor Teams and/or H9s if flotillas really explode.

Not H9's with reds, so much. Remember, with H9 you're only flipping hits and crits.