Looking at a lot of these lists I'm noticing a severe lack of the original x wing crafts. Save for Biggs and Wedge. Has anybody else noticed this or is there a whole meta out there that still rocks the old red squadrons?

I know that the T-70's came out and have changed up the dynamics of x wings, but there still has to be some life in the craft.

Well the thing is they kind of need something to make them a bit more competitive. Integrated As definitely helps, but the ship itself isn't very maneuverable and there are better options available for the most part.

That said, Biggs is still one of the most useful pilots in the game, and both Wedge and Wes see a fair amount of play. All they really need is an Aces pack that gives them a new title or something and I'm sure they will return in full force.

died off?

more like fossilized at this point

it's not the t-70, mind. the t-70 is even less cost efficient than the t-65 classic. Poe was a thing for a while (combination of his ability, autothrusters and regeneration made for a powerful ship) but scouts shot him down HARD

currently, the things to beat are palp aces, torpedo jumpmasters and crackswarms (tie fighters or a-wings, albeit to a far lesser extent). the t-65 just doesn't have the tricks of aces/masters nor the efficiency of tie fighters + crackshot

for my money, there are four t-65s that still sorta work

first is Biggs, because his ability is still stupid good. Give him IA and keep him cheap

second is PTL bb-8 wedge just for how hard he hits. Dies stupid quickly, though, so is not an ace as much as a glass cannon. Seen some good local success with jan (hwk) because he's **** scary

third is bb-8 VI Wes, who annoys scouts and aces. Still dies super hard against anything, but there's potential there

finally, r7 tarn mison is just a beefy little bugger that no one wants to shoot at

integrated on everyone, if you want them to last more than the blink of an eye

The T-70 is barely competitive, and the T-65 is almost as bad as the Z-95. I do have a lot of success with the T-70s but they have to have both region bots. In general, I have used Wedge with "engine upgrade" so he could dogfight better, but he become too expensive. I would say the T-65 needs a title card for about 5 pts which give them a "engine upgrade" and "shield". The T-70 needs something like 'Chadathian Refit" in order to bring the cost down. They are too expensive to put torpedo on anyways.

Taking Rookies to a tournament shortly to escort Miranda. It's done me well, but this will be the true test of it. Only thing that really scares me are alpha strike lists... Looking specifically at triple toilet seats... Done ok with aces... Killed Fel in two of three matches... But to be fair, one Fel struck two rocks before gliding up next to Miranda. Had to sadly out him out of his misery...

My advantage? A whole heck of a lot of red spread between four ships. Disadvantage? Well... Pilot skill is a big one...

Naysayers. Lol.

I tried out a little tripX list today and it might just usurp my choice for regionals! Not that that should be a big deal to anyone, this will be my first reeg and I'm pretty nervous about it... haha, erm...

Red Ace, Ello and Biggs. Okay technically I'm just rocking Biggs like everyone else and throwing in regen and a semi-ace, but it worked quite well. Ello was surprisingly good with just his ability. I had both T-70s equipped with ATs and Biggs got the IA plus R7. I played against a Vader, Marek, Yorr list and won on points. Biggs and R7 takes some skill to make work, but man it works. Biggs went three rounds of shooting before biting it to a Marek crit and that only happened because I got greedy and took a focus instead of switching my TL from Yorr to Marek. If I had been able to use R7 on that shot I'm confident that I would have ended the game with Biggs still alive.

So what you say, you got lucky in one game with the most well used X-Wing pilot in the whole game. Well yes, but I also noticed some things. Comm Relay on Red Ace was useless and in fact, my regen ship never regenned at all! Now, I realize this is just one game, but I think Biggs may be the meta-burner. If you could... edit: Uh, hit the wrong button there. If you could support Biggs with another ship that can also shoot well, I think you would be in really good shape versus... well, anything really.

I could see Biggs and some Reds with chimps and torps being a great U-Boat killer. Red Vets are also looking pretty sweet but I can't seem to crack that one yet. Biggs and some Aces seems like a no brainer, I don't see why some of those Aces shouldn't be X-Wings. Maybe that Heroes pack will have some even better options for making pilots like Garven and Wes better too. I also think a lot of people were discounting IA before, but now it's looking like a better and better option. Especially for the humble T-65! Also I think maybe Jek is worth a look again too.

Anyways, I'm rambling.

Try this!

[post=https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!185:42,-1,149,-1:-1:15:;186:-1,3,153:-1:15:;4:-1,59:-1:20:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron][/post]

A Wes, Biggs, and Corran list won Utah regional, so they still playable, but still looks like something anecdotic... (and looks like Corran was the axis of the list, and the Xs were mostly supporters)

I'm mostly Imperial player, but feels kind of sad that in a game called X-Wing, the humble TIE/ln sees a lot more of competitive action.

I am all for changing the name to Tie Fighter.

A Wes, Biggs, and Corran list won Utah regional, so they still playable, but still looks like something anecdotic... (and looks like Corran was the axis of the list, and the Xs were mostly supporters)

it is anecdotal

it speaks volumes of the players flying them, anyway, because the X itself is simply more limited than any other ship in the game

now disclaimer, as long as it rolls red dice you always have a chance of winning

that chance is just lower when running x-wings, though, as they are mathematically less efficient than other ships (esp the tie fighter) for their point cost

even worse, compared to every other ship they're simply lacking in options (no post maneuver action, very bog standard dial, no interesting upgrade slot outside a handful of astromech upgrades, integrated eats mods making ordnance less attractive, no way to fire outside primary arc nor deal damage ala feedback or bombs etc.)

they're, simply put, jousters that can barely joust. Their only saving grace is the abilities that some of their unique pilots possess. Biggs especially has been game changing from the very beginning

So have we come down to the point of the game where its all about statistics then? What about formations and such? Can't 3-4 x wings who are flying in tight formation still do a number on a lot of people or am I stuck a few years behind everyone still?

***Edit- Or who just outmaneuver the opponent?

problem there is the X-wing is perhaps the least maneuverable ship in the game short of the z-95, which is mathematically more efficient. Anything you do with it, including tight formation flying or outmanuevering the opponent, is going to be more easily accomplished with just about any other ship in the game.

For example, an equal point cost's worth of crackshot black squadrons are just about better in every respect apart from crappy green dice. Howlrunner turns them into a monster of a formation, they're mathematically more efficient, they're FAR more maneuverable at every speed apart from 1 and they get to b-roll

jousting may not be the only part of X-wing the game, but it's all X-wing the ship (specifically) can really do until you get into the named pilots. Biggs can be flown to either joust or capitalize on his ability and bb-8 gives a surprising amount of flexibility. that's about it

even the Y and its strictly worse dial gets ionization or twin laser turret capabilities to offset its stiffness. The B-wing has the versatile barrel-roll. the x-wing has no such luck

which sucks, because they look really cool on the table, but them's the breaks

the only x-wings that have broken through on a competitive level are Biggs from the t-65 and Poe from the t-70. Locally, in wave 7, Red Ace also had a fair bit of a showing. Scouts ruin him and rebel regeneration in general, but if you don't run into them you have a fair chance

well, scouts or conner nets

So have we come down to the point of the game where its all about statistics then? What about formations and such? Can't 3-4 x wings who are flying in tight formation still do a number on a lot of people or am I stuck a few years behind everyone still?

***Edit- Or who just outmaneuver the opponent?

I'll be a bit more positive than fickle on Xwings but I think I have more luck on green dice and I've had a pretty good run with the dreaded rookies this year.

He's sorta right.

There, that was technically more positive. And tight formations actually work against the Xwings against many popular lists right now. It's suicide versus aces and won't help you when the torpedoes rain in. It can help you in a joust, where you have an equal or greater firepower than your opponent. Doesn't happen often these days though. I've been finding you need flexibility to move from tight formation to loose and still support each fighter.

Comm Relay on Red Ace was useless and in fact, my regen ship never regenned at all! Now, I realize this is just one game, but I think Biggs may be the meta-burner. If you could... edit: Uh, hit the wrong button there. If you could support Biggs with another ship that can also shoot well, I think you would be in really good shape versus... well, anything really.

Sounds like you were unlucky with Red Ace, I run her a lot and I have found her to be an absolute tank! Having said that, she does work best with Jan Ors (crew card) to pre-charge her Comms Relay.

Biggs is worth his weight in gold and will continue to be so as long as you are playing an opponent who rolls red dice. The only downside is that he such as solid choice that many rebel players feel like they get a 74 point list + Biggs. Ordnance alpha strike becoming more of a thing will only emphasize this, particular with R4-D6.

Biggs works best when he is protecting ships with lower agility than him. Obviously Ghost deserves an honourable mention here as Biggs is very effective at protecting the Agility 0 lump and making sure its big primary guns can keep shooting as long as possible. Biggs + Kanan has proved a popular combo as Kanans pilot ability allows him to protect nearby ships which in turn can keep Biggs alive even longer.

Biggs is great no matter whom protecting (unless they're non airen Z's; send that fodder off to die first!)

The T-65 is a decent ship, that often gets overlooked. There's a couple decent T-65 builds that can hold their own in the current meta. Here's a list using two of them that I've been running recently:

34 Wedge w/ PtL, BB-8, Integrated.

26 Biggs w/ R4D6, Integrated.

40 Lothal w/ FCS, ABT, Hera, Chopper.

0 Initiative.

Wedge and Lothal are your heavy hitters that dish out the hurt, and Biggs protects them from various threats. It's a surprisingly good squad that Ive been having some success with, plus it looks great on the board.

The old t-65 could do with some kind of cost reduction card... Maybe a "chardaan refit" variant that would bring the cost down to 20 points (that would bring it in line with the khiraz (which it's on the same level as) and allow 5 of them in 100pts)

It would probably need some kind of a restriction; "non-unique pilots only" maybe? Some of the named pilots are still pretty decent and probably not in need of a buff.

The T-70 feels like it's still alive and kicking though. Poe seems to see enough play, and the 4x Blue still seems like a valid choice for a swarm.

T65 buffs are tricky because the platform itself is over-costed but some of the pilot special abilities are under-costed.

I think FFG made the mistake in the original core game of over-costing the X-wing and under-costing the Tie fighter because of the 2:1 ration of models in the box. The humble T-65 has been struggling to recover ever since.

I actually feel that the original sin of the X-wing is an action bar that has only two actions (and perhaps a lack of green on the dial).

I think that with boost, barrel roll, or evade on the action bar, Xwigs might have been *much* better. Frankly, I am of the opinion that all ships should have three actions on the bar as standard.

Most of it has been covered above... and there are heaps of "Fix the Xwing pls!" threads.

But man, I'd dearly love to see a fix that addresses cost/actions.

Xwing needs a Tie Defender style fix that reduces cost and adds an evade.

BOOM.

Mic drop.

I'm not sure it needs anything that powerful. This year I'm now 10-3 with three naked rookies in my list. Anecdotal, sure, but I'm not anything special as a player. It needs something, no denying it. A big bump though could break it.

Anyway, smarter people than me are working on it at FFG, so I'm content to wait for it.

A Wes, Biggs, and Corran list won Utah regional, so they still playable, but still looks like something anecdotic... (and looks like Corran was the axis of the list, and the Xs were mostly supporters)

it is anecdotal

it speaks volumes of the players flying them, anyway, because the X itself is simply more limited than any other ship in the game

English is not my first language, so apologies in advance...

I have almost no problem with T65s, as i only play very casual. In fact, i recently purchased Xwing expansion(!), and i'm dying to play with Wedge, and also try Tarn Mison + R7...