This is being dealt with locally. No need for the witch hunt.

Unfortunately since this is a store championship it is an issue for FFG to decide on. The game is getting more popular and the last thing we want is a bunch of cheaters playing the game at higher levels. He is blatantly cheating and should receive a ban from FFG.

Which reminds me

Wasn't there some sort of updates ffg made on banning players?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/spolicy/

The TO from that area will deal with it as they see fit.

The TO from that area may or may not do anything, but it's not just up to that TO. FFG has decided that they will police all official events, and take actions they deem fit.

That means it's not just a local issue that should be dealt with locally, it's an issue that can affect the whole community, and one that FFG should take a look at.

That doesn't mean posting the video here will actually accomplish anything, but it also isn't something that is up to that TO alone to deal with.

Sounds like t'another one a them thar dial fidgeters.

Sounds like t'another one a them thar dial fidgeters.

The original post should not have been deleted.

Here is the video. The dodgy bit happens around 14:40, Imperial player (left).

It's okay to say, "Hey, this looks suspiciously like cheating."

I don't know that this player is cheating, but I know that I won't fidget with my dials while my opponent moves.

And all too often it becomes a case of 'i think you cheated, so you must be dragged through the lowest level of the sewers' proof not required.

Have you viewed the video?

Yes, as you would've known had you read the topic. What's that got to do with the principle of the thing?

Even if he cheated (which you do not know for sure), it has no bearing on you, only on the local players. Let them sort it out, with the store, the TO and if needed, FFG.

But too often some internet vigilante scum will crawl out of his parents' basement to harass that person himself. It is after all quite easy to figure out the name and from there on a whole lot more.

First time someone was catched cheating in a video, some were shocked about the subsequent reactions of the community (some called it "witch hunt").

But now, after 2 additional similar cases, cheaters exactly know about the consequences (I mean the angry reactions of the community, not the ban).

He doesn't look like a 10 year old child and should be aware of the consequences of his actions.

If he still cheat, it's his fault, I have no mercy for that

From the LAST time this happened.....

This player did not win the SC.

This player did not win the SC.

But maybe his opponent could have

And all too often it becomes a case of 'i think you cheated, so you must be dragged through the lowest level of the sewers' proof not required.

Have you viewed the video?

Yes, as you would've known had you read the topic. What's that got to do with the principle of the thing?

Even if he cheated (which you do not know for sure), it has no bearing on you, only on the local players. Let them sort it out, with the store, the TO and if needed, FFG.

But too often some internet vigilante scum will crawl out of his parents' basement to harass that person himself. It is after all quite easy to figure out the name and from there on a whole lot more.

...and what about the names that FFG posted in their ban list?

If you go to a sanctioned event and are caught cheating you will be publicly banned and your name will be on the internet.

Here is an idea....just don't cheat.

Not sure how anyone can view the video and NOT know he was manipulating his dial which was also coincidentally timed after the movement of the opponents ships.

This player did not win the SC.

Never mind then. /s

Edit: I decided to be more helpful.

It's cool that you want to keep this local. I understand you don't want your buddy to get banned from FFG events. I wouldn't want any of my friends banned, even if they were caught cheating. My advice would be to suggest to your friend that he contact FFG immediately. It is best to get ahead of things, especially if he was actually cheating.

"To whom it may concern: In a severe lapse of judgement on my part, I cheated in a recent match during a store championship. This is poor behavior and completely unacceptable. I have disgraced myself and the fine local X-Wing community to which I belong, not to mention the excellent global community and FFG. I sincerely apologize for this poor behavior. I understand any sanctions that FFG wishes to take against me, but hope that my fellow players can forgive me."

— what I would tell my friend to write if I were in your shoes.

...and what about the names that FFG posted in their ban list?

If you go to a sanctioned event and are caught cheating you will be publicly banned and your name will be on the internet.

Here is an idea....just don't cheat.

Not sure how anyone can view the video and NOT know he was manipulating his dial which was also coincidentally timed after the movement of the opponents ships.

It is quite possible they would be unable to publish the names of say, German players, or other European ones, if they resisted.

Privacy tends to be taken seriously.

The punishment for cheating is exclusion from further events / the venue, for a certain amount of time. It is most certainly not the public naming and shaming, and possibly hurting you in other parts of your life. That is grossly disproportionate.

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

The punishment for cheating is exclusion from further events / the venue, for a certain amount of time. It is most certainly not the public naming and shaming, and possibly hurting you in other parts of your life. That is grossly disproportionate.

I completely agree. Everyone makes mistakes. The problem is: how do you ban someone from future events without creating a black list? How is a black list effective if not made public?

The punishment for cheating is exclusion from further events / the venue, for a certain amount of time. It is most certainly not the public naming and shaming, and possibly hurting you in other parts of your life. That is grossly disproportionate.

I completely agree. Everyone makes mistakes. The problem is: how do you ban someone from future events without creating a black list? How is a black list effective if not made public?

Let the store handle it at the local level, create a website where stores can register tournaments and where people can sign up with their account (this also generates a lot of data on tournaments and their players and lists, giving a huge amount of insight in what people play competitively).

I dunno, there are ways.

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

I sometimes do, if the ships are close together or if the dials would be in the likely flight path of ships, place the dials near the edge and away from the ships, but always in plain sight.

Then again, I don't fiddle either and have broken myself of the habit of holding the dice or tokens in my hand before it is time to actually roll or place them (too often, when I started, I rolled green dice before the attacker had made his choices to mitigate).

First time someone was catched cheating in a video, some were shocked about the subsequent reactions of the community (some called it "witch hunt").

But now, after 2 additional similar cases, cheaters exactly know about the consequences (I mean the angry reactions of the community, not the ban).

He doesn't look like a 10 year old child and should be aware of the consequences of his actions.

If he still cheat, it's his fault, I have no mercy for that

Caught, please

And no opinion on the actual subject, good luck with the discussion

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

I sometimes do, if the ships are close together or if the dials would be in the likely flight path of ships, place the dials near the edge and away from the ships, but always in plain sight.

Then again, I don't fiddle either and have broken myself of the habit of holding the dice or tokens in my hand before it is time to actually roll or place them (too often, when I started, I rolled green dice before the attacker had made his choices to mitigate).

So when I attend regionals this year, I'm going to put little stickers on the backs to indicate which are mine

Granted the only time it's happened was with my cousin in friendly games, and not at competitive events, but to be safe I'm going to put stickers on them anyway.

I am willing to admit that I am a total clutz and tend to knock ships. I used to keep everything on the ship, but then I kept bumping everything so I put the dials off to the side over the card, where I keep track of health and a token and maneuver template pool. Even so, cheating is not my goal... Cheating is a dumb way to play in casual takes the fun out of it. Tournament, that's just wrong. But for all of the clutzs out there, please don't ban putting a dial slightly aside...

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

Theoretically, that's in violation of the rules, too.

Pg 15, standard rules of play, section "Planning Phase" reads:

During the Planning phase, each player secretly chooses a maneuver for each of his ships. To choose a maneuver, the player rotates the faceplate of the ship’s maneuver dial until the window shows only the desired maneuver. Then he assigns the maneuver by placing the dial facedown in the play area next to the matching ship.

(emphasis mine)

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

Theoretically, that's in violation of the rules, too.

Pg 15, standard rules of play, section "Planning Phase" reads:

During the Planning phase, each player secretly chooses a maneuver for each of his ships. To choose a maneuver, the player rotates the faceplate of the ship’s maneuver dial until the window shows only the desired maneuver. Then he assigns the maneuver by placing the dial facedown in the play area next to the matching ship.

(emphasis mine)

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

Theoretically, that's in violation of the rules, too.

Pg 15, standard rules of play, section "Planning Phase" reads:

During the Planning phase, each player secretly chooses a maneuver for each of his ships. To choose a maneuver, the player rotates the faceplate of the ship’s maneuver dial until the window shows only the desired maneuver. Then he assigns the maneuver by placing the dial facedown in the play area next to the matching ship.

(emphasis mine)

The tournament rules do allow players to place dials on their ship cards in the event of a mirror match.

The tournament rules do allow players to place dials on their ship cards in the event of a mirror match.

Yes, and because it does I normally place my dials on my ship cards. Reduces clutter on the board and risk of misreading dials, especially since I often fly swarms.

Just out of interest, I've never actually played with anyone who places their dials face down off the board next to the pilot card like that (or at least, not that I can remember) - we've always placed our dials face down next to the ship it belongs to, so it's obvious which ship uses which dial. Do people play it that way often?

Theoretically, that's in violation of the rules, too.

Pg 15, standard rules of play, section "Planning Phase" reads:

During the Planning phase, each player secretly chooses a maneuver for each of his ships. To choose a maneuver, the player rotates the faceplate of the ship’s maneuver dial until the window shows only the desired maneuver. Then he assigns the maneuver by placing the dial facedown in the play area next to the matching ship.

(emphasis mine)

The tournament rules do allow players to place dials on their ship cards in the event of a mirror match.

Not anymore they don't, no.

Used to, sure, but the current rules have no special exceptions for mirror matches any longer.