So 3JM5K is set to steal the stage this year, and it looks like Palp Aces and Crackswarm are going to be big too. Everyone is looking to counter these lists but I wonder... what happens when a hard counter list meets it's own hard counter?

What will you bring to counter the current meta and what do you think will shut you down hard?

I myself was looking at Crackswarm until I realized that was already well represented! So in this instance, what beats Crackswarm?

Assault Missiles

This might be fun against Crackswarm.

Z-95 Headhunter: · Lieutenant Blount (17)

Veteran Instincts (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Z-95 Headhunter: Tala Squadron Pilot (13)

Assault Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Z-95 Headhunter: Tala Squadron Pilot (13)

Assault Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Z-95 Headhunter: Tala Squadron Pilot (13)

Assault Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

A-Wing: · Tycho Celchu (26)

Adaptability (Increase) (0)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Autothrusters (2)

I went to a regional with Ion turret/proton torp Drea/Smiley droid, a Findsman with crackshot, accuracy correcter and zuckus, and a bumpmaster- Perfect for killing high agility aces and tearing down Uboats

I lost first round to lategame Poe after trading Drea for Jake and Farlander, died 2nd round to a not-even-crack tieswarm, and never faced another ace or jumpmaster the entire tournament, even when they were playing on tables to either side of me.

Assault Missiles

Wrong. Nothing prevents a Crackswarm from splitting up, especially when its the A-Wing variant. I, too, want to live the Assault Missile dream, but they just can't cut it in my experience

Advanced Sensor IG-88s.

Wish I'd taken it to my Regionals.

I took Magnum Force (Inq, Omega, Palp, Wampa) to beat aces and got taken down by 3xTLT/Bumpmaster :S

I often beat other aces because I can out fly them, even with PS6 v 9, but turrets suck me down because dice hate me.

With more viable builds being developed, building to counter the current meta becomes harder as there is no single meta to counter.

I think that with time, we will see more lists that focus on their own tactics rather than trying to counter specific enemy tactics. If you build to counter another build, you risk getting into a rock-paper-scissors situation where you will win big against favourable match-ups but get curb-stomped by other builds.

Maybe we will see the rise of balanced lists?

I am not sure that Wave 9 will be the meta breaker the way Wave 7 and 8 were breaking out.

As much people complain about Wave 4 and the Meta adjustments during that time it was a Wave 2 ship that climbed on top of the Meta and not with any Wave 4 upgrades (unlike Wave 6 and 7 which had a upgrade breakout). When Whisper came a thing all of the cards in the Fat han build were already released, they just were not good at the time until Wave 4 came out.

Compare that with the U-boat meta only half the upgrades were previously released. Deadeye, R-4 agromech, Proton torpedoes, Plasma torpedoes, and Extra munitions were released prior to wave 8 while Contracted scouts, Overclocked R-4, and Guidance chip along with the ship model all came from wave 8.

As for now it seems that Wave 9 is focusing on killing the Red Barron but what in the wave will be the usurper and what prior from Wave 9 will breakout it is yet to be seen.

It has always been about covering your bases with your list, and outflying your weaknesses.

With more viable builds being developed, building to counter the current meta becomes harder as there is no single meta to counter.

I think that with time, we will see more lists that focus on their own tactics rather than trying to counter specific enemy tactics. If you build to counter another build, you risk getting into a rock-paper-scissors situation where you will win big against favourable match-ups but get curb-stomped by other builds.

Maybe we will see the rise of balanced lists?

Your words are wise and true. 'Tis better, indeed, to find a list that one can fly well, than worry about the complexities of a meta as diverse as the current one. Once upon a time, when Whispers and Fat Hans were all to be seen, then it was indeed a worry; but now?

However, you do have to think ahead and figure out how your list responds to the Alpha Strike, the Swarm, and the Ace.

However, you do have to think ahead and figure out how your list responds to the Alpha Strike, the Swarm, and the Ace.

There is always the risk that X-wing goes the way of 40K where all-rounder lists cannot match the efficiency of lists tailored to dominate in 1 or 2 key areas. GW have tried to compensate with formations that provide bonuses for fielding specific combinations of units but the results have been mixed.

I've been playing a squad on Vassal and the Simulator site (which makes me think I'm the best in the world). When I can play in an actual table, that's nice too.

Carnor Jax, PtL, AT

Omega Leader, Juke, Comm Relay

Zertik Strom, VI, Title, AC

Dark Curse

If Imperials can't steal their tokens, I just won't let them use or modify them. It's pretty effective, I'm really digging it

I prefer Blount Force Trauma.

Blount, VI, tracers

Grey squad, EPTbot, crackshot, plasma torp, EM, ABT, GC

Tala, concussion, GC x 2

Tala, homing missile, GC

Blount sets it up, the Y strips shields, the concussions kill. Homing missile for flexibility/ruining an aces day.

Made the cut in Atlanta with these guys.

What counters my favorite list? Everything except aces. I was using RAC/Whisper.

Erases aces lists.

Crumbles against anything with a large base and or a turret.

Avoid it. Never fly it. Its awfull

I'd probably do 4 x Gamma Bomber w/ EM, Homing Missiles, and GC. Not sure that it would be Crackswarm, though.

4 x Gamma Vet w/ EM, Proton Torps, and GC would do better vs. Crackswarm, but worse vs Imp Aces.

Scum Boba with my usual kit, Palob w/Zuckuss, wired and Dorsal, then a Ruthless freelancer with Enhanced Scopes and Intel Agent.

I flew bombers in the San Diego regional. 3 Gammas and OL. Was fun but arc dodging Deci kills you dead.

I made a similar list to Blount force trauma. But instead of the Y I used Biggs. The reason is Wes ruins your whole list, by stealing Blount's focus. Biggs takes away that problem. And I gave the tala's concusion missiles and an Assult missile. Concussion missiles are more resilient to very bad dice rolls. Even if you roll no hits and re roll into no hits again, as long as you have 1 focus you still get 2 hits. Not likely to happen that way but I have seen it. It seems to be a very good list. Have not had a chance to run it yet though.

Bount w/ Draw their fire, tracer

Biggs w/ R4-D6, Plasma Torp, IA

Tala x2 w/ Chips, concussion missiles

Tala w/ Chips, Assault Missile

I only see 2 glaring weaknesses. Palob can ruin the whole alpha strike if he gets in close by stealing Blount's focus. And what do I do after the first Alpha strike?

Yeah, building to hard-counter is a dangerous proposition. I brought Outmaneuver on IG-88 during my first store championship (the weekend after wave 6 released), expecting to shut off C-3PO on all the fat Hans. Instead, there was a single Decimator out of 14 people and no other turreted ships. My first match was a Howlrunner swarm.

I'm fiddling with a ridiculous hammer-and-anvil idea:

Outer Rim Smuggler with APL

Horton with Ion Torpedoes

Jan Ors with Kyle, Rage (!?!?) and TLT

All theory at the moment. No table experimentation yet.

If nothing else, a Rage/TLT/Kyle (crew) HWK is making me think I'm on to something.

However, you do have to think ahead and figure out how your list responds to the Alpha Strike, the Swarm, and the Ace.

This is true. I wonder what an all-comers list would look like? An Ace of your own, an ordnance boat with EM, plasma and homing missiles the threaten big targets and Aces respectively and some sort of support ship to add a buff or control element. (Can you tell I tend to favour 3-ship lists? ).There is always the risk that X-wing goes the way of 40K where all-rounder lists cannot match the efficiency of lists tailored to dominate in 1 or 2 key areas. GW have tried to compensate with formations that provide bonuses for fielding specific combinations of units but the results have been mixed.

Zuckuss

VI

Adv Sensors

Dengar

Title

Palob Godalhi

TLT

Cloaking Device

Contracted Scout

Deadeye

EM

Proton Torpedoes

Boba Fett

R4 Agro

Chimps

99 points

Kinda fits your description. But when Fenn comes out he will probably replace zuckuss.

There is a lot of anti-meta lists being developed. Here are some examples-

Blount w/ tracers + Talas w/ munitions

Munition Bossk + Support (Dengar popular choice)

Ghost + Biggs

2 VCX+ small support

5 Crack A-wings

IGs (not sure I would call them Anti-meta, but they perform as well as ever imo)

Wes + Biggs + Big cannon (Corran or Keyan is what I've seen most)

YV-666 "Party Bus" (includes 3 of the following crew- 4LOM, Zuckuss, Bossk, K4 Security Droid, Greedo, Boba, Dengar)

Those are just some possibilities off the top of my head.

I can't help but feel combination defender - bomber lists are going to be real strong once were post vets. The X7 defenders provide great resistance to alpha stikes and good sustained damage output with its white k's and 3 natural attack. There are also some good 'ace' pilots coming for them. Bomber seasoning gives you blockers and a good early damage spike to get your opponents attack dice off the board as soon as possible so your defender(s) can really make the most of thier survivability.

These lists are going to be versatile, fast, tough and packing a serious punch. If that's not the definition of a take all comers list I don't know what is.

Deleted for not reading the OP properly.

Jan Ors with Kyle, Rage (!?!?) and TLT

If nothing else, a Rage/TLT/Kyle (crew) HWK is making me think I'm on to something.

The big problem here is that Jan needs to be not stressed to do her trick.

How do we sleep when the Meta's burning?? "obscure 80's" reference... my only hint..lol