Edit - come to think of it that would make a rather neat double-sided card.

One side allows you to flip a blank to a focus on offensive rolls - the other on defense rolls - giving you additional tactical options depending on what you're facing.

Gives a nice boost to Garven as he'll always be able to get some added value from his ability ( no more spending focus to convert zero eyeballs)

Luke becomes a big fat beast

And it won't do any harm to generics who move early and rarely lose actions.

Make that a title and we've got a fix on our hands. Facing a TIE Swarm? Take the offensive side and try and out-dps them.

Facing Aces? Take the defensive title and try to out-turtle them.

You'd still have to fly well to beat them, but it can be done. You've got less of a hill to climb.

Of all the topics that appear on roughly a weekly basis, this one seems to be taking the spot as the most consistent.

Which I don't understand. The T-65 received its "fix". The Integrated Astromech does wonders for this ship. Because of previous wording rules, it would be nearly impossible for FFG to release a mod or a title that ONLY the T-65 can equip.

I often wounder if players have dusted off their old X-wings sense IA (and the new Astromechs) came out? Wedge with BB-8 is outrageous! And all the X-wings become even tougher with IA. I actually tend to field X-wings with IA over naked B-wings now!

The only change I would like to see is to give all X-wings with a PS 4 or higher a EPT slot. Because there is an astromech that does this very thing... I doubt we ever get such a title.

And wave 9 will bring repositioning, at the cost of IA

I know we'd all love to make our favorite ship even better because, well, we're all a bit self-centered when it comes to our favorites.

But the re-occurrence of this fix thread results in one opinion by me: NOOOOOO!!!!! Stop the madness.....

Let's all be actually honest, it's easy to be objective and agree when a ship comes to the table that really needs a bump to even be used at all, and that's the only time that a cost reduction or added benefit should be deployed by FFG. Ask yourself, which ships never see play in tournaments regardless the importance? Those ships should be the ones that start a list of ships that need a bump. Clearly the T-65 is NOT one of those. The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly; I mean, the logical upgrade (in cannon and gaming reality) is the T-70. Think guys! Plus, some of the old guard pilots still have abilities that make them better than the T-70 pilots when placed on the table. Who doesn't like these guys and fly them??

i was actually more thinking of a free title that puts xwings towards their usual role in the movies/series: escort ships.

Not what Biggs does, otherwise his ability is pointless, but something akin to Draw Their Fire.

Name: Escort Pilot

Ship: T-65 X-wing only

Cost: 0pts

Effect: Whenever a friendly ship in range 1-2 suffers an unsaved hit or crit, you may take that damage instead, choosing either the hit or the crit. The Xwing does not count as being "hit" for any rule.

Spamming these wouldnt really yield much (allow some wound-shenanigans ala 5th edition 40k but thats about it) but having a random Rookie pilot would add a lot of girth to other ships. Since its only 1 hit or crit per attack, biggs still has a place because he forces all attacks.

T-65 doesn't need much at all, if anything tbh, it's already a moderately cheap 3 dice attack, 6hp ship with IA. It already has some fantastic pilots. What do people want from it? to be better than a T-70?

i have 2 issues with xwings:

1: like in my post, theyre an escort ship in a game where except for Biggs nobody can be an escort ship. Unfluffy!!!

2: Yes theyre a cheap-ish 3die ship but they cant turn for gak without making them crazy expensive. With no boost/barrelroll they have to pay out the nose for arc-dodging, and sacrifice other juicy upgrades to do it. Coupled with their 2agi, if they have to Kturn (which is their best way to turn around w/o boost) and get stressed so no focus for defense, they tend to get really badly hurt.

Its not that they cant hurt things, its that they cant really stay shooting reliably and they arent hard to get rid of at all.

Of all the topics that appear on roughly a weekly basis, this one seems to be taking the spot as the most consistent.

Which I don't understand. The T-65 received its "fix". The Integrated Astromech does wonders for this ship. Because of previous wording rules, it would be nearly impossible for FFG to release a mod or a title that ONLY the T-65 can equip.

I often wounder if players have dusted off their old X-wings sense IA (and the new Astromechs) came out? Wedge with BB-8 is outrageous! And all the X-wings become even tougher with IA. I actually tend to field X-wings with IA over naked B-wings now!

The only change I would like to see is to give all X-wings with a PS 4 or higher a EPT slot. Because there is an astromech that does this very thing... I doubt we ever get such a title.

Most people are either copycats or focused on the new shinies. Until they see X-wings dominating tournament lists, they won't go back to them.

That being said, I'm kind of one of them. I have very limited time to play and I often play casual games with the new ships that I haven't flown much, or serious games with the ones I know well.

From what I have played, IA helped the X-wing quite a bit. I think they could still use a little nudge though. Nothing grand, but maybe just somethings that gives the elites a tiny bit more flexibility.

other issue is point cost thresholds. Not so much what its worth on its own, but pairing.

T70 for some reason i never have this issue but with the T65 i always end up with ~5pts lying around. To me thats way too many points to not be using lol.

What do people want from it? to be better than a T-70?

As it stands you can fit 4 Rooky T65s with R2/IA or 4 Blue Squadron T70s with R2/IA into 100 points. The left-overs from the T65s are not enough to upgrades to make them competitive against their TFA versions. I guess you can take red squadron T65s for the boosted PS but it is not much.

Let's all be actually honest, it's easy to be objective and agree when a ship comes to the table that really needs a bump to even be used at all, and that's the only time that a cost reduction or added benefit should be deployed by FFG. Ask yourself, which ships never see play in tournaments regardless the importance? Those ships should be the ones that start a list of ships that need a bump. Clearly the T-65 is NOT one of those. The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly; I mean, the logical upgrade (in cannon and gaming reality) is the T-70. Think guys! Plus, some of the old guard pilots still have abilities that make them better than the T-70 pilots when placed on the table. Who doesn't like these guys and fly them??

So your point is... The T-65 is terrible ship that isn't worth it's points cost. BUT THAT'S OK because the T-70 exists.

No. Just... no.

Of all the topics that appear on roughly a weekly basis, this one seems to be taking the spot as the most consistent.

Which I don't understand. The T-65 received its "fix". The Integrated Astromech does wonders for this ship. Because of previous wording rules, it would be nearly impossible for FFG to release a mod or a title that ONLY the T-65 can equip.

I often wounder if players have dusted off their old X-wings sense IA (and the new Astromechs) came out? Wedge with BB-8 is outrageous! And all the X-wings become even tougher with IA. I actually tend to field X-wings with IA over naked B-wings now!

The only change I would like to see is to give all X-wings with a PS 4 or higher a EPT slot. Because there is an astromech that does this very thing... I doubt we ever get such a title.

I have and don't find it to be the case at all. Integrated, for one, only seems to actually matter about half the time as I'll either not take any crits or the finishing blow will do enough damage that shedding one of the cards makes no difference. Especially if you fly against U-boats with any regularity as those things don't really care that you have one more damage to suffer when you only have 6.

Wedge with BB-8(and presumably push the limit) is a whole other set of issues. If you start a round with no stress, you can perform up to three actions, but 1) you have to make a green maneuver, of which the X-wing only has four and 2) one of those actions must be a barrel roll which, depending on the circumstances, may not be ideal, desirable or even possible. If you don't make a green maneuver, if you choose to use PTL you're stuck without being able to use BB-8 next round, and needing to take one of the X-wing's limited greens to clear. Even if you're in the ideal situation and able to use BB-8+PTL every turn, since the X-wing has no green turn you're going to have a hell of a time keeping certain things in arc, so then you're possibly looking at Engine Upgrade over Integrated, which leaves you with a 38 point X-wing that can arc dodge, but very awkwardly.

tl;dr BB-8 + PTL is a neat trick, but the X-wing's greens are so limited that's it's difficult to make consistent use of both upgrades together, and using PTL alone turns off BB-8 for at least a turn, and adding engine upgrade to the mix to make up for poor turning ability makes him prohibitively expensive.

Believe me, I want to make Wedge work, he's my favorite pilot, but even with that build I still don't typically find him making his points back.

Which I don't understand. The T-65 received its "fix". The Integrated Astromech does wonders for this ship. Because of previous wording rules, it would be nearly impossible for FFG to release a mod or a title that ONLY the T-65 can equip.

I often wounder if players have dusted off their old X-wings sense IA (and the new Astromechs) came out? Wedge with BB-8 is outrageous! And all the X-wings become even tougher with IA. I actually tend to field X-wings with IA over naked B-wings now!

The only change I would like to see is to give all X-wings with a PS 4 or higher a EPT slot. Because there is an astromech that does this very thing... I doubt we ever get such a title.

As a matter of fact, I love flying the 'fixed' T-65. It sucks.

Wedge + BB8 and PTL is 1 point less than Soontir Fel. To put it bluntly, he is an atrocious waste of points.

This 'outrageous' combo everyone likes to tout as 'proof' the T-65 aces are fine? It's never made top 32 at any major tournament. You're wrapping up 34 points in a bow and handing it to your opponent.

It still amazes me how so many people can defend the T-65 with the same 3 illogical arguments:

1) Anecdotal evidence

I flew T-65s at a store championship and made top 8 so the T-65 is fine

2) Just saying they're fine

The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly

The Integrated Astromech does wonders for this ship.

T-65 doesn't need much at all, if anything tbh

3) Pointing to a specific combo as 'proof' the ship is fine

Hobbie + Targeting Astromech! The X-Wing is fixed!

Wedge + BB8! The X-Wing is fixed!

Luke + R2D2! The X-wing is fixed!

Wes Janson + Veteran Instincts! The X-Wing is fixed!

And yet, mysteriously this ship showed up in like 4 lists at Worlds, has failed to make top 8 in any System Open, and the only one appearing with any consistency in the Regional lists is Biggs.

Not every ship can be competitive, nothing wrong with that inherently.

Not every ship can be competitive, nothing wrong with that inherently.

Ideally yes, in practice no, it's not going to happen, but the X-wing, namesake of the game and in the top three most Star Wars-y ships along with the Falcon and TIE Fighters, probably should be.

Not every ship can be competitive, nothing wrong with that inherently.

Actually there is. In a perfect system, the same number of points of any ships should be equal with it all coming down to the skill of the players and the luck of the dice.

Obviously there are plenty of reasons why this is never likely to happen in real life as perfect balance is almost impossible with so many variables. Having said that, it is clear that there are some ships that fall outside the scope of acceptable variance ad the T65 is one of these. IA helps but it is not enough to make it viable on its own. The X-wings you see flown are taken for their pilot abilities, not the X-wing itself.

If you want an idea of how ships really compare, look at the lowest PS generics rather than the higher level pilots whose abilities may skew that.

Yeah, after all the low PS Phantoms are utter trash yet Whisper is still deadly as gak because of both high ps and a her ability.

Compare 2 TIE Academy pilots for 24s to 1 Rookie for 21pts. 3pts difference, in theory the Xwing would only be just outmatched but in reality the Xwing has no **** chance. The TIE Fighters are faster, turn faster, evade more, and between the two of them shoot more and have more hp. For 3pts.

Xwings are vastly superior to TIE fighters in the starwars universe, but in this game they suck balls. Perhaps T65s should get the Awing treatment, dump their torp slot for some points shedding. Not like anyone uses it anyway lol.

Let's all be actually honest, it's easy to be objective and agree when a ship comes to the table that really needs a bump to even be used at all, and that's the only time that a cost reduction or added benefit should be deployed by FFG. Ask yourself, which ships never see play in tournaments regardless the importance? Those ships should be the ones that start a list of ships that need a bump. Clearly the T-65 is NOT one of those. The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly; I mean, the logical upgrade (in cannon and gaming reality) is the T-70. Think guys! Plus, some of the old guard pilots still have abilities that make them better than the T-70 pilots when placed on the table. Who doesn't like these guys and fly them??

So your point is... The T-65 is terrible ship that isn't worth it's points cost. BUT THAT'S OK because the T-70 exists.

No. Just... no.

Terrible design.

There are a lot of ways to do an X-wing title, this is not one of them.

The X-wing was liberated from Incom by the rebels instead of it becoming an imperial ship. I would start with that theme. Presume that the first pilots to get X-wings were elite pilots and they stole them with astromechs in them but of course there were only so many of them.

A New Hope / Rogue Squadron / Liberated Tech

T-65 title

Equip an EPT of 2 points or less for free and equip an astromech of 2 points or less for free

2 pts

This would give you 4x IA reds with a wide variety of EPT's and Astromechs available. I would consider wingman even for this squad. Group K turn and clear all stress. Add targeting astros for free k turn target locks.

Let's all be actually honest, it's easy to be objective and agree when a ship comes to the table that really needs a bump to even be used at all, and that's the only time that a cost reduction or added benefit should be deployed by FFG. Ask yourself, which ships never see play in tournaments regardless the importance? Those ships should be the ones that start a list of ships that need a bump. Clearly the T-65 is NOT one of those. The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly; I mean, the logical upgrade (in cannon and gaming reality) is the T-70. Think guys! Plus, some of the old guard pilots still have abilities that make them better than the T-70 pilots when placed on the table. Who doesn't like these guys and fly them??

So your point is... The T-65 is terrible ship that isn't worth it's points cost. BUT THAT'S OK because the T-70 exists.

No. Just... no.

My thoughts may be just an opinion, but they're logical. The T-65 isn't the T-70 and it's good as it is. Yes, the T-70 is a little better, but it is a cannon upgrade. Skywalker is an 8 PS at 28; Poe's PS 8 card comes I at 31; isn't that correctly designed/assigned?

Let's all be actually honest, it's easy to be objective and agree when a ship comes to the table that really needs a bump to even be used at all, and that's the only time that a cost reduction or added benefit should be deployed by FFG. Ask yourself, which ships never see play in tournaments regardless the importance? Those ships should be the ones that start a list of ships that need a bump. Clearly the T-65 is NOT one of those. The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly; I mean, the logical upgrade (in cannon and gaming reality) is the T-70. Think guys! Plus, some of the old guard pilots still have abilities that make them better than the T-70 pilots when placed on the table. Who doesn't like these guys and fly them??

So your point is... The T-65 is terrible ship that isn't worth it's points cost. BUT THAT'S OK because the T-70 exists.

No. Just... no.

My thoughts may be just an opinion, but they're logical. The T-65 isn't the T-70 and it's good as it is. Yes, the T-70 is a little better, but it is a cannon upgrade. Skywalker is an 8 PS at 28; Poe's PS 8 card comes I at 31; isn't that correctly designed/assigned?

The T-70 is actually even less point efficient than the X-wing, even before you factor in IA, just going by raw stats. Its action bar, and by extension its ability to take Autothrusters, and in the future probably the tech slot, are what give it the edge, and even then most of what you see is Poe because of the extra defense and offense provided by his ability.

Let's all be actually honest, it's easy to be objective and agree when a ship comes to the table that really needs a bump to even be used at all, and that's the only time that a cost reduction or added benefit should be deployed by FFG. Ask yourself, which ships never see play in tournaments regardless the importance? Those ships should be the ones that start a list of ships that need a bump. Clearly the T-65 is NOT one of those. The T-65's are fine and fit their role perfectly; I mean, the logical upgrade (in cannon and gaming reality) is the T-70. Think guys! Plus, some of the old guard pilots still have abilities that make them better than the T-70 pilots when placed on the table. Who doesn't like these guys and fly them??

So your point is... The T-65 is terrible ship that isn't worth it's points cost. BUT THAT'S OK because the T-70 exists.

No. Just... no.

My thoughts may be just an opinion, but they're logical. The T-65 isn't the T-70 and it's good as it is. Yes, the T-70 is a little better, but it is a cannon upgrade. Skywalker is an 8 PS at 28; Poe's PS 8 card comes I at 31; isn't that correctly designed/assigned?

This would be a fair assessment if the X-Wing was good to begin with. If say, the X-Wing was a good ship and the T-70 was a better ship that cost more points, everyone would be happy. This is what you assume currently exists.

Unfortunately, though the T-70 is correctly priced for what it offers, the T-65 is not. You need to factor in both cost and abilities before considering if the ship is good. Imagine a graph, where the X axis is 'points', and the Y is 'roughly how good the ship is. For a ship to be worth taking, it has to be good for it's points.

Fact is, the maths show the T-65 has been lagging behind the curve since day 1. Point per point, the humble TIE Fighter has always bested the X-Wing.

People say 'the B-Wing killed the X-Wing' or 'it makes sense that the T-70 is better' but that's not the case.

The X-Wing has sucked from wave 1 onwards, and will continue it's voyage of suck until the day FFG announces Rebel Veterans, and my watch is ended.

to be fair, the tech slot on t70s is pretty moot right now. Might change in the upcoming releases once we see what the 2 new techs are, but right now...meh

T70s cant use Comm Relay unless you wanna exchange your focus for an evade via Jan Ors crew and the Weapons Guidance really should be in addition to the focus action or be 1pt.

...actually now that i think about it...that might be a good idea lol (t70 comm relay with jan ors around) he still hangs onto it for when the fight begins.

to be fair, the tech slot on t70s is pretty moot right now. Might change in the upcoming releases once we see what the 2 new techs are, but right now...meh

T70s cant use Comm Relay unless you wanna exchange your focus for an evade via Jan Ors crew and the Weapons Guidance really should be in addition to the focus action or be 1pt.

...actually now that i think about it...that might be a good idea lol (t70 comm relay with jan ors around) he still hangs onto it for when the fight begins.

IMO, one of the X-Wings biggest issues is not so much the points or the ship itself, but the fact that it is a jouster in a game that has left most jousters behind. With the IA, it is comparable to a B-Wing, but guess what, B-wings aren't seeing much play currently either.

IMO, the answer isn't to make the X-wing an arc-dodger as many have suggested, but to give the whole jouster type ships a slight boost. When this happens, a whole slew of ships will be helped (e.g. Kihrax, X-Wing, B-Wing, and Starviper which despite it's action bar, I feel is much better at jousting than arc-dodging)). Maybe make the upgrade a modification so that it covers a lot of ships, but arc-dodgers can't have it and autothrusters/EU, ordnance boats can't have it and Guidance Chips. Something that would do for jousters what autothrusters did for arc-dodgers.