i keep reading about people winning System opens and Regionals with Palp Aces which contain Soontir and the Inquisitor, but i haven't seen anyone win with Vader, you would think that is your meta is filled with PS 8-9 arc dodgers that a PS 10-11 Arc Dodger with guaranteed crits would be a good choise, but no one is using him, is it because he's a liability against everything else?

He's far too squishy. squishy isn't a good place in wave 8.

Autothrusters. End of story.

i keep reading about people winning System opens and Regionals with Palp Aces which contain Soontir and the Inquisitor, but i haven't seen anyone win with Vader, you would think that is your meta is filled with PS 8-9 arc dodgers that a PS 10-11 Arc Dodger with guaranteed crits would be a good choise, but no one is using him, is it because he's a liability against everything else?

You're pretty much right. Autothrusters are so good that the Inquisitor has effectively more defense than Vader, and almost as much offense. Vader's extra hit point is useful against some things, but not a lot of others.

You have to look at action economy. Vader gets two actions per turn. Inquisitor can get three if he has the title, uses PtL, and takes a target lock (TL, Evade, extra PtL action). Soontir also gets three (Action, PtL Action, Focus).

When I calculate action efficiency, I also factor in autothrusters to be worth 0.5 actions per turn, or rather, one free evade results every other turn or so (which I think is very conservative. It's probably worth more). Using that methodology, Inquis and Soontir both clock in at 3.5 actions per turn to Vader's 2 actions per turn. That's an increase of about 75%. They are nearly doubling Vader's action efficiency.

Vader is great at out-acing other aces, but U-Boats are so strong that they really demand that high-cost Imperial Aces operate at maximum efficiency in order to avoid being blasted into space dust.

I didn't like Vader as much lately as I did the inquis until I started running Vader with Juke and Accuracy corrector. I think that version of Vader is a little weaker offensively then ATC but much more difficult to kill.

I didn't like Vader as much lately as I did the inquis until I started running Vader with Juke and Accuracy corrector. I think that version of Vader is a little weaker offensively then ATC but much more difficult to kill.

Balsy build - kudos!

I'm currently loving Alonzen with AC, Juke, and Cluster Missiles - but hating the ps5 limitations and cost

i keep reading about people winning System opens and Regionals with Palp Aces which contain Soontir and the Inquisitor, but i haven't seen anyone win with Vader, you would think that is your meta is filled with PS 8-9 arc dodgers that a PS 10-11 Arc Dodger with guaranteed crits would be a good choise, but no one is using him, is it because he's a liability against everything else?

You're pretty much right. Autothrusters are so good that the Inquisitor has effectively more defense than Vader, and almost as much offense. Vader's extra hit point is useful against some things, but not a lot of others.

When flying triple aces (Soontir, Vader, and Inq), Vader almost always dies first.

A big part of it is that he doesn't have Autothrusters. A second part of it, though, is that Vader hits like a truck. Inquisitor and Soontir are both very tanky ships - Vader is, for all his 5 HP and 3 AGI, a glass cannon in a similar vein to TIE/D Vessery is - lots of firepower, but less durability.

I actually ponder whether this means that Vader/Vessery might make a decent pairing... as long as you can kill enemy lists fast enough, anyway.

what about vader with PTL? He is ps 9 already and will have 3 actions with that but at that point is he worth the cost vs soontir or Inquisitor

VI on Vader is ridiculous in my opinion. The very big advantage of him is that he has a free EPT slot. Inquisitor and Soontir have to use PTL in order to be dangerous. Vader with "predator", or better "outmaneuver" has a far superior punch.

what about vader with PTL? He is ps 9 already and will have 3 actions with that but at that point is he worth the cost vs soontir or Inquisitor

He doesn't have enough good greens to keep him stressed.

what about vader with PTL? He is ps 9 already and will have 3 actions with that but at that point is he worth the cost vs soontir or Inquisitor

He doesn't have enough good greens to keep him stressed.

And if you want more repositioning with boost you'll need Engine Upgrade, costing 4 more points to do what Fel and Quizzie already do natively

It's not so much about Vader, as it is about the Advanced being the worse ship compared to both Interceptor and Prototype. Its dial is kinda bad for an ace. In the passage from prototype to advanced prototype, when the Sienar designers said, "Yeeeah, don't think we need green 1-turns and boost here", somebody had be force-choked.

Plus, the ATC is not exactly like having 3 red dice. Sometimes it's more, but then it happens you don't have a TL on your only target, and you can't acquire one because you're stressed or bumped. At that point, the Advanced hits like a regular TIE, and that's terrible.

Also, it can never actually use its TL for reroll, so the other two attacks are weaker.

It's not so much about Vader, as it is about the Advanced being the worse ship compared to both Interceptor and Prototype. Its dial is kinda bad for an ace. In the passage from prototype to advanced prototype, when the Sienar designers said, "Yeeeah, don't think we need green 1-turns and boost here", somebody had be force-choked.

Plus, the ATC is not exactly like having 3 red dice. Sometimes it's more, but then it happens you don't have a TL on your only target, and you can't acquire one because you're stressed or bumped. At that point, the Advanced hits like a regular TIE, and that's terrible.

Also, it can never actually use its TL for reroll, so the other two attacks are weaker.

That's part of why I have been flying AC+Juke Vader. It's two auto hits and if they don't have a focus he hits hard or they are forced to use it defensively or suffer a damage. Too many times with ATC I was left without a TL when I needed it most. When you can get Vader out there using ATC every turn he is amazing but it's not always as easy as it sounds.

Zach Bunn from team Covenant just won Tacoma, WA regional with Vader/Valen/Shuttle.

Vader goes to PS 11, Rudor is PS 6 but has a mean counterpunch to aces. With an overbid PS, and underbid PS, there's no reason save points for an initiative bid too. Combine that with the savings from Inquisitor to Rudor, and you've got points for prockets on both aces.

Vader is a worse arc dodger than Soontir, but has much more impressive offense.

Autothrusters. End of story.

You mean U-Boat Turrets and Y-Wing Twin Laser Turrets right?

Whenever I go against an Aces list, if they have Vader as one of the Aces. I go "peeeew" at least that one I can kill.

Had a match recently. I had Manaroo with a plasma torp left and 4 hull. against the Inquisitor down to his final hull. He kept arc doding at range one, even with 3 dice from the turret I could not get trough the evade/ autothrusters combo.

Autothrusters seems balanced on most ships, but the Soontir/ Ing combo is just crazy in a timed match.

No autothrusters, ONLY 3 evades