Reading through the Salvation Demands Sacrifice PDF accessory for The Radical's Handbook, a few thoughts have entered my mind.

First, I think they need to add more low level Alternate Ranks (rank 1 and 2) for all the careers, or at least better guidelines on how to create new ones.

Second, and most important, some of the Alternate Career Ranks requirements make no sense, especially rank requirements. For instance, why can only a rank 4+ character be brainwashed and turned into a Infil-Trailtor? You mean to say the same couldnt be done at Rank 1 or 2? I know we can house rule it and use elite advances to simulate these effects, but wouldnt it be easier if FFG just replaced that Rank 4 with a 2 or even 1?

It actually seems to me that Alternate Career Ranks like Infil-Traitor would fit better as Elite Advance Packages instead, with no rank requirement.

I enjoy the game as it works, I think the addition of Alternate Ranks, Background Packages, Elite Advance Packages, Campaign Packages and such hae opened up what I thought was at first a limited character generation/advancement scheme, but think a little less shoe horning into game balance/mechanics and little more free form open ended options are needed.

Mainly, I think most of the alternate career ranks could and should be available at at least 1 rank lower then the are presented now.

What is the general thought on this?

Peacekeeper_b said:

[i HATE EDITING QUAOTAS!! ARRRRHG!!]

Peacekeeper_b said:

Depends on the design reasons behind the placement - an alternate rank for Techpriests, for example, might well replace a specific rank so that you lose access to one of their defining abilities (and those that require the lost ability) as part of the cost of taking the alternate rank (it gives you new abilities, at the cost of losing access to ones you might otherwise have had). Others might be built with a very distinct idea in mind that, in the designer's view, should only be available from a particular point in a campaign. All in all, I think it's a little to circumstantial to make any kind of broad statement.

I agree that Infil-Traitor should have been an Elite Advance Package, though - that's how I'd have done it, certainly.

I agree with you about the Infil-Traitor being better represented as an Elite Advance Package - most "bad stuff happens to your character, which is why you can now take these advancements" things are handled thusly, like the Nascent Psyker and the Cyber-Rebuild.

Other than that, I assume it's mostly a matter of balance. Combat Master isn't handed out to any class before fifth level, Swift Attack is only gained by the Assassin before fourth and the Logis Implant is available only to the Tech-Priest (and the Psyker at 8th rank).

I agree that more alternate levels at rank 1 or 2 would be nice to see. Just adding some flavor to a few classes would be nice and it would help break up players playing the same class earlier.

Specifically I would like to see a series of rank 1 or 2 Guardsman “specialist” levels. It would be nice to have a guardsman VOX Operator/Tech Specialist, Junior Officer, Weapons Specialist (get one heavy or basic weapon training talent at rank 1), Drop/Jump Trooper, Field Medic, etc.

Several of these specialist ranks could transfer easily to other classes with the most overlap being in the Arbitrator class.

At the same time these could be handled as background packages or alternate starting skill lists.

The same notion goes for Daemonic Vessel and Exorcised. It really costs me XP to get possessed? To be saved? As well as with the reconstruction in IHB? Really, if I dont have enough available XP I cant be saved?

These are example packages that some XP cost advances should be available, but not to get into these elite advance packages. A strong defiend drawback system of balances would help make this more fluid, IMHO.

Again, I love the game, I love how it works, just some of it makes me go "Yeahbutwhat?" I mean honestly, it costs me 150XP and I have to be rank 3 to be a Dedicated Radical?

And Wyrd, Touched by the Warp and Untouchable should be add ons a character can tack onto his or her character for 0XP and should be inheritly self balancing and part of you Origin and not a background package, which to me represent prior pre-game experiences, not DNA/WARP flukes. I mean, Hive Mutant is an origin, not a package.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Depends on how you view xp. Is it a representation of the character's capacity to learn things ("hey, I've just passed an arbitrary milestone and gained in power!"), or a reward for the players that they can use to improve their characters?

In the latter case, anything is fair game for an xp cost, and unlike the other significant player/character resource (money), its availability is strictly and solely determined by the GM.

Also remember that, as per all Elite Advances, the GM alone determines availability and final cost within the context of a given campaign. If you want it to cost a particular quantity of grox dung, or the player's best rendition of "I'm a Little Teapot" sung in Esperanto, then so be it.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Should it be available right at the start? Should a character whose details are freshly-marked on the character sheet, new to the service of the Inquisition and not necessarily well-versed in either his master's affiliations nor the politics of the Inquisition be able to swear himself to an ideology that is, for anyone but an Inquisitor, essentially a heresy. It's not exactly well-suited to brand-new characters. A hard-and-fast rank limit might be a little harsh (and not personally the way I'd have done it), but it's still representative of something rather than being entirely arbitrary.

Plus, that 150xp is paying for a contact, training in a Forbidden Lore skill, and access to future advances. It's not like you're getting nothing for it but the title.

Peacekeeper_b said:

How would you balance them, then?

It's all well and good saying these things, but being immune to psychic powers (for example) is a really big benefit, the social drawbacks of which are not really sufficient to counterbalance the advantage it provides, particularly for already socially-inept characters.

And, to be fair, Touched by the Warp is a pre-campaign experience. It's not like you're necessarily born that way...

from france

personnaly i love the saboteur it correspond excatly as i wanted to found as alternate way to a assasin scum and guard. even my arbitrator swat oriented wil like to play that way. contrary to other allternat carrer foubnd in th inquisitor handbook i found this one particulary equilibrate. so real question is for me the randical is it good, because it finnaly arrived in france and the critics are not always good on the forum.