So I get second Scyk interceptor (initially wanted to get 2nd copy of Stealth Device, and there are no available Slaves), and having two of them prompted me to build some fun list to play. What do you guys think of it? Initially wanted to take Manaroo but in the end I picked base Jumpmaster with R4 Agromech.

The plan is to initially keep Jumpmaster upfront, provide cover for Scyks, and use it to generate focus, bump ships and shoot as well.

100 points

46 points

Love any multi M3A lists, but I tend to feel m3As need to be naked and not loaded up. Too many points loaded onto a 3 hp ship.

I've had good success with 2 TPV's plus Palob. The best part is beating people with Scyks (considered by many to be the worst ship in the game)

Anyway, I've been considering updating it by trading out Palob for Manaroo:

2 TPVs w/ attanni mindlink, 'heavy scyk', HLC & hull upgrade = 30 x 2

Manaroo w/ attanni mindlink, K4 droid, unhinged, feedback array, proton torps, extra munis & guidance chips = 40

100

When going with an HLC Scyk, its very important to get the hull upgrade. You've already invested a lot of points to get a powerful 4 attack gun. It would be madness not to invest the extra relatively low cost of 3 points to make sure it stays on the board as long as possible. Stealth device is not as good imho, especially in a meta saturated by crack shot (which we are in).

Manaroo provides incredible utility. Bonus focus tokens thanks to her ability + mindlink, a powerful alpha strike vs lower PS enemies and the ability to block and kill high PS aces thanks to feedback.

Its a solid list, although I do miss Palob's PS 5 (since at PS 4, Manaroo always ends the turn stressed when a Scyk k-turns, but at least she has lots of greens to clear it)

Best of all, the list is quite good against two of the most popular meta lists atm: crackswarm and u-boats (your alpha strike trumps theirs in PS).

I like your list the way it is.

2 TPVs w/ attanni mindlink, 'heavy scyk', HLC & hull upgrade = 30 x 2

Manaroo w/ attanni mindlink, K4 droid, unhinged, feedback array, proton torps, extra munis & guidance chips = 40

100

This is similar to my primary list, currently.

JumpMaster 5000: · Manaroo (27)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

K4 Security Droid (3)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

M3-A Interceptor: Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

M3-A Interceptor: Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

· Dengar (3)

· Cloaking Device (2)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

I've not played it enough to know if the M3As are with their points. So far they have been. People have been more focused on Palob and/or Manaroo.

I use a Cartel Spacer in a list. Everything else is mixing it up in the middle of things, while this little guy smacks things at range.

Cartel Spacer (14)

Stealth Device (3)

Heavy "Scyk" Interceptor (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Comes in at 26 points, but since he's trying to hold range 3 on people, he's getting 5 green dice and 4 red dice each turn. People see a Scyk and just ignore it (especially with TalonBane charging at them) until the HLC starts blasting from afar. He's been killed by more asteroid collisions than enemy fire honestly.

You will want Stealth Devices on the Scyks.

I have been running something similar. But with an aggressor instead.

Scyk: title, Mindlink, Mangler

Scyk: title, Mindlink, Mangler

IG-88B: HLC, Mindlink, AutoThrusters, Hot Shot Blaster, traktor Beam, FCS

I have been think of changing to IG-88D though. I don't think I have used B's ability yet. It has done very good for me.

I like the OP's list a lot. I spent a lot of time flying "Mangler" Scyks because I was too afraid to put points on them, but now I think extra 3 points are worth the expense to get that extra die in there. It lets them do a lot more damage before they crumple, especially with Attanni Mindlink enabling focus + target lock almost every turn.

Thanks for all the replies guys!

What I wanted to achieve with this list was to provide constant hard hitting - thus Punishing One title and Gunner on Jumpmaster. With Gunner list like that can potentialy dish out 14 attack dice per turn (alpha strike from Jumpmasters use 12 attack dice at most). Of course Jumpmasters got more constant damage but nontheless, potential 14 dice is a lot.

Indeed, Stealth Device is pretty tempting, especially that Atanni Mindlink makes Scyks defensively almost equal to Soontir when it comes to token stacking (of course without arc dodging potential). I could potentially do this, but for a price of Punishing One or Gunner on Jumpmaster. The question is, is it worth it?

After hearing some suggestions I decided to make an alternative list - this one uses Manaroo and ordnance power:

39 points

The question is, which one will work better?

I ran the same list, but dumped the torpedos and K4 and went with a honking Tel and did ok. Tel will not die easily and can pump endless focus to the M-3's. Your build has more of an initial offensive punch, but may result in too much attention on Manaroo. Not a bad thing per se, just my initial thoughts.

After hearing some suggestions I decided to make an alternative list - this one uses Manaroo and ordnance power:

Tansarii Point Veteran #1

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor

Attanni Mindlink

“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor

Stealth Device

Heavy Laser Cannon

30 points

Tansarii Point Veteran #2

M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor

Attanni Mindlink

“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor

Stealth Device

Heavy Laser Cannon

30 points

Manaroo

JumpMaster 5000

Attanni Mindlink

Plasma Torpedoes

Extra Munitions

K4 Security Droid

Unhinged Astromech

Feedback Array

Guidance Chips

39 points

The question is, which one will work better?

I'm tellin' ya, hull upgrade is better! Crack shot kills stealth devices, defensive tokens or not. And consider that against a crackswarm, you will want TL + focus (not focus + evade) on the initial turn of shooting, so that you can kill 1 or 2 PS 4 TIEs before they shoot. So you WILL be taking damage from any that survive because crack goes through naked greens like a hot knife through butter. So you WILL lose a Scyk on the opening exchange for sure (whereas with hull, you either won't, or your opponent has to use all their ships to take out the one scyk, and likely lots of crack, meaning that it will be **** hard to kill the other Scyk later on).

Also, I'm not sure how important an initiative bid is here. Against a crackswarm, the opponent wants to take it for blocking, and you don't want it so you can get the easy TL from K4 on the initial turn and fire off the torpedo. And even more important is the crit the proton torpedo provides. The scyks shooting at PS 5 will have stripped shields from heavy-shielded targets already, so the plasma does nothing. The proton torp however increases the odds of one-shotting a torpedo scout on the initial round of shooting (before it even gets to fire), so imho, the switch to plasma only weakens the list's potential...

With the extra hull and the proton torpedo, the list is built to handle the 3 biggest meta threats right now (u-boats, crackswarm and imp aces). Stealth and plasma does nothing to help you in those matches (likely to be your most common)

If you go with the original list, I'd suggest swapping gunner for Dengar. Unless I read gunner wrong, it only triggers if you miss. Throw Dengar on the Scout and you won't need a second shot.

I disagree with hull vs stealth. I faced two crack swarms (1 tie and one Chihuahuas ) and beat both. The key is engagement and liberal use of the evade tokens. Having 4 green dice plus a token dissuaded the use of crackshot because I almost always had the +1 on the evade side. This gave more time to take them off the board before they used it. Further, in both matches, it took multiple crackshots per ship to kill my ships which further depleted their effectiveness.

My answer is different for decivader and Bossk who are pushing unmitigated heavy damage or critical through. However, crack and U-boats are more prevalent right now.

Just my opinion.

I disagree with hull vs stealth. I faced two crack swarms (1 tie and one Chihuahuas ) and beat both. The key is engagement and liberal use of the evade tokens. Having 4 green dice plus a token dissuaded the use of crackshot because I almost always had the +1 on the evade side. This gave more time to take them off the board before they used it. Further, in both matches, it took multiple crackshots per ship to kill my ships which further depleted their effectiveness.

My answer is different for decivader and Bossk who are pushing unmitigated heavy damage or critical through. However, crack and U-boats are more prevalent right now.

Just my opinion.

My experience has been vastly different (and I have played it both ways----I have had table time with stealth and with hull upgrade). And I think the math supports hull over stealth especially in regards to crackshot.

Consider this: a ship shoots at you and scores 2 hits. With stealth rolling 5 dice (assume R3 here), you should get 2 evades or close to it (1.875 avg). So you need to spend the evade to 'over-evade' to avoid losing the stealth. The stealth hasn't actually protected you here (you had to use the token to protect the stealth device!), and now the 2nd ship gets to shoot and unless you are very lucky, you're in the same boat (stealth isn't protecting you if you have to spend a token to 'over-evade'). By the third ship, the stealth is gone for sure, you've taken a damage and no tokens left means the next two shots are likely to finish you off unless dice go your way. Worst of all, if you were over-evading, your opponent didn't need very many crack shots to take out your Scyk, and the only way he isn't going to take out that Scyk is if he can't shoot all of his TIEs at the same target...

And really, you shouldn't be taking evade action in this case because you have an HLC and the potential for TL + focus which can one-shot a TIE before it shoots. So as I said, in absence of that bonus evade token, the hull becomes even more valuable. Hull always guarantees one extra damage needed to kill (almost always going to mean an extra TIE shooting or at least an extra crack shot spent). And that is a huge difference in terms of keeping your 2nd Scyk alive in the late game.

I too have run it both ways, with the opposite results. Some of it.may have to do with differences in lists. I run mangler cannons, not HLC.

Secondly, i do not typically joust with them, so if you have more than 2 ships shooting at you, you need to re-think your approach. At PS 5, the Scyks are shooting first, hopefully taking out one of the ships, and certainly stripping any tokens prior to shooting back at you. Secondly, three ships shooting un-modified is likely going to yield only one of the three attacks actually getting two stars. At 4 dice, you will evade most of the rest. Even if the SD does get popped, I will happily take on lower PS, less action economy 2 att/3 agi ships with many glen Scyks all day long.

I find the differences in our experience with similar lists interesting.

With my list I try to fire all three ships at the same ship. IG shoots and hopefully takes shields away. While the two Scyks push crits through with their Manglers. It has proven to work pretty well. Provided the Scyks don't get one shotted, which happens occasionally.

Secondly, i do not typically joust with them, so if you have more than 2 ships shooting at you, you need to re-think your approach. At PS 5, the Scyks are shooting first, hopefully taking out one of the ships, and certainly stripping any tokens prior to shooting back at you.

Naturally that is the plan. Do you think my description is advocating flying Scyks into the face of an entire formation of ships? I wouldn't be having success with them (nor anyone for that matter) with that kind of foolishness.

What I was trying to do though, was compare the advantages of hull and stealth in a theoretical situation. With a bunch of enemy ships shooting at you, which of the two will give you the greatest chance at survival. And I think its fair to look at the possibility since you may be facing a very strong opponent that has out-positioned you. I always advocate making upgrade choices that give you the best chance of winning in the worst case scenarios, and that is how I view hull vs stealth, particularly in a crackshot heavy meta (which I believe we are in).

Now granted, the stealth device is less likely to pop if only 1 or 2 ships ever shoot at you in any given turn. If that has been your experience, then I can see why you think highly of it. For me though, I have had at least 3 games against crackshot TIE swarms with Stealth device in recent memory and in all three games the stealth popped if not on the first shot, then on the 2nd (and in no case was there more than 2 ships shooting in the same turn). To my mind, that means the stealth device did nothing to prevent any damage thus making it a waste of 3 points (not all of these games were with Scyks though, but stealth on 3 agility follows the same principles, regardless of the ship carrying it).

Now, if you can give yourself 2 defensive tokens (focus+evade) every turn then yes, I think the stealth device becomes worthwhile, even though crackshot is particularly efficient at countering the benefit of stealth device (whereas hull upgrade has no such inherent weakness against it). But with HLC scyks vs lower PS targets, I think it is a mistake to go defensive when your offense is so strong as to avoid damage by killing the target before it can shoot. So for that reason, hull upgrade makes more sense, particularly since crackshot is most common on PS4 or lower ships. If even one enemy shoots with crackshot, the risk of losing the stealth and taking damage is reasonably high. With hull, if it happens, you are still in better shape than you would be with the stealth.

With my list I try to fire all three ships at the same ship. IG shoots and hopefully takes shields away. While the two Scyks push crits through with their Manglers. It has proven to work pretty well. Provided the Scyks don't get one shotted, which happens occasionally.

Yes, yes of course! That is what is known as 'a good idea', regardless of what ships you are flying

I think you may have your finger on why our experience is different. I am almost always focus-evade.

I think you may have your finger on why our experience is different. I am almost always focus-evade.

I've still had it break to crack shot even with focus + evade:

My last 3 experiences were:

1) Soontir w/ 2 focus + evade. 2 TIEs had a shot, 1 at R2 and 1 at R3. R2 shoots first with 2 hits and I roll 3 blanks + 1 eye. Spend focus + evade and he cracked a hit through.

2) Rexler Brath w/ lone wolf, X-7 + Stealth. Only one TIE this time but at R1. I shoot first and spend focus since it gave me 3 hits + 1 crit, but he rolls 2 evades and no direct hit. He replies with 2 hits + crit. I roll 2 blanks, 1 eye and 1 evade. Lone wolf re-roll gives me 3 evades (I had evade token too) but he cracks it and bye bye stealth.

3) HLC Scyk with stealth at R3 of one TIE (other one was destroyed by combined fire). This time I didn't have an evade since I went for TL (but still had focus since I rolled 4 natural hits to destroy the other TIE). He rolls hit + crit and I roll 3 blanks and 2 evades, so he cracks one through.

Only the first case I would say was 'bad luck'. The other two were fairly average dice. If I was facing enemies without crack shot, then the Stealth would've held up fine. Its crack shot that is particularly good at blowing it before it has a chance to be of any value. And I've seen a lot of crackswarms lately! If you aren't facing them on a regular basis, then you might be okay with stealth, but since there are other things out there that counter stealth too (such as mines/bombs and vader-crew), I find hull proves itself valuable far more consistently...

So, if Stealth Device doesn't pop on the first shot, it has done exactly what a hull upgrade would have done. Then it has the potential to do more work later. I think 3 agility ships are almost always better taking Stealth Device over hull upgrade when able. I have a list with SD on Biggs at 2 agility, and the list loads him up with defensive tokens. It's a risk, sure, but if it survives one shot, I feel it's pulled it's weight (he completely dodged a four hit plasma torp in one match [evade token added the 4th dodge], something he isn't capable of without SD, and then he continued to evade one more shot after that before getting hit). And while I understand your reasoning of taking out one opponent before they can even shoot, consider that you may end up doing that anyway with HLCs and you have a u-boat that they also have to consider going after. My thought is that you don't have to be so aggressive with the Scyks in this list, because you have another viable threat that the opponent needs to think about. And, the Scyks WILL win a war of attrition if you play defensively with them with SD. Against a swarm, after the Alpha encounter, if you still have your Scyks with SDs intact, you will have to get really unlucky, or the opponent get really lucky for that bout to go his way.

It's a dice game, so ultimately any match could go any way. I suppose it's a matter of your own tastes and how you play, and what you prefer is different than what I prefer, and that's what makes it so great.

So, if Stealth Device doesn't pop on the first shot, it has done exactly what a hull upgrade would have done. Then it has the potential to do more work later. I think 3 agility ships are almost always better taking Stealth Device over hull upgrade when able.

It's a dice game, so ultimately any match could go any way. I suppose it's a matter of your own tastes and how you play, and what you prefer is different than what I prefer, and that's what makes it so great.

Certainly its a matter of preference and I've given some reasons why I believe hull to be superior, but people will take what they want to take, and that's cool---I'm not trying to be an upgrade nazi or something

However, your statement there is a fallacy. Just because you avoided damage on one shot does not mean your stealth device saved you. Afterall, you very well may have avoided that same shot without the stealth device. I would say you can start to feel confident in your stealth device providing value when its still up after avoiding 3+ shots (not necessarily all in one turn of course). Its VERY likely that the stealth device ACTUALLY made a difference at that point (compared to how your rolls would've been without it). Does that sound 'unfair' to the stealth device? I don't think so since one extra green die provides about 1/3 of an evade result (possibly more with a focus). Although the BEST way to tell how your stealth device is doing is to roll that one green die separately. Then you will be able to see for sure if that one die is stopping more damage than you would've stopped without it.

So, if Stealth Device doesn't pop on the first shot, it has done exactly what a hull upgrade would have done. Then it has the potential to do more work later. I think 3 agility ships are almost always better taking Stealth Device over hull upgrade when able.

It's a dice game, so ultimately any match could go any way. I suppose it's a matter of your own tastes and how you play, and what you prefer is different than what I prefer, and that's what makes it so great.

Certainly its a matter of preference and I've given some reasons why I believe hull to be superior, but people will take what they want to take, and that's cool---I'm not trying to be an upgrade nazi or something

However, your statement there is a fallacy. Just because you avoided damage on one shot does not mean your stealth device saved you. Afterall, you very well may have avoided that same shot without the stealth device. I would say you can start to feel confident in your stealth device providing value when its still up after avoiding 3+ shots (not necessarily all in one turn of course). Its VERY likely that the stealth device ACTUALLY made a difference at that point (compared to how your rolls would've been without it). Does that sound 'unfair' to the stealth device? I don't think so since one extra green die provides about 1/3 of an evade result (possibly more with a focus). Although the BEST way to tell how your stealth device is doing is to roll that one green die separately. Then you will be able to see for sure if that one die is stopping more damage than you would've stopped without it.

Yeah, that's the toughest thing about Stealth Device -- you can't quantify it in absolute numbers like you can with a Hull Upgrade. Rather, the Stealth Device increases your probability of evading a hit. To be statistically confident that the Stealth Device made a difference in your game, you'd need calculate the number of evades you rolled while Stealth Device was active and compare it to the expected number of evades you would have rolled without Stealth Device. Unfortunately, a single game probably doesn't give you a large enough sample of defense rolls to really be confident in the calculation even then. So when it comes down to it, Stealth Device lets you play to the variance. In other words, it lets you gamble. Sometimes you'll evade a lot of hits, but sometimes you'll lose the Stealth Device on the first round. But you'll never* be able to really quantify whether it was worth it or not in the course of a single game.

*I said "never," but I suppose that really isn't true. Suppose you're a 3-agility fighter with Stealth Device and you take a range-1 shot from an X-wing. They roll hit-hit-hit-crit. You dodge with 4 evades. In that case, Stealth Device has definitely saved you because it was impossible to roll that kind of defense without it. But at that point, you haven't blocked any more damage than you would have with a Hull Upgrade and the odds of that kind of attack result occurring are slim.