I've been running a number of test games with Imperial Veterans in order to determine what defender list I want to start flying. The core of my most successful list is 3x X7 Deltas, as they are absolute tanks with a ton of health to slog through. What I am looking for is advice on what to use the last 16 points in the list on. So far, I have come up with the following possibilities:

• Upgrade all Defenders to Onyx + stealth device: PS3 doesn't seem that useful in the current Meta
• Backstabber: Solid offense, but seems like a clear first target due to lack of F+E stacking.
• Dark Curse: Confuses target priority, but contributes little offensively to the list
• Seinar Test Pilot: Excellent blocker, but has minimal offense in a list full of PS1 ships.
• Wampa + targeting computer: Very useful against aces, but seems like an obvious first target in this list.

Any thoughts on what to do with the last 16 points?

blade_mercurial has had a lot of success in the Vassal league running Onyx with Hull. In the present Torpedo/Crack Shot meta, it's better than Stealth Device.

Of your other options, I'd pick Backstabber. Sure, he's an obvious target, but he's 16 points. An obvious target at 16 points isn't a weakness, it's bait. You don't really need the Test Pilot to block, as you have 3 PS1 ships, and I think you're right about Dark Curse not really adding much. Wampa+TC would fill a similar role as Backstabber.

The correct answer is "Night Beast" with a Twin Ion Engine Mk. II. That way everybody can get Focus + Evade every turn!

EDIT: Also, PS3 is at least valuable for simultaneous fire with u-boats.

Step 1: Upgrade 1 Delta to Countess Ryad with PTL, X7 and Twin Ion Engine Mk2 for 36 points.

Step 2: Upgrade the 2 remaining Deltas to Glaives with Adaptability and X7 for 2 x 32 = 64 points.

Step 3: Profit!!!

I quite like Dark Curse simply because he messes with Focus Token usage and TLs which are a big part of a lot of lists right now. Those U-boats will be forced to spend their Ordnance against the Defenders leaving DC free to buzz around them and cause annoyance. A 2-red PWT will struggle to make a dent on an Agility 3 ship with Evade.

blade_mercurial has had a lot of success in the Vassal league running Onyx with Hull. In the present Torpedo/Crack Shot meta, it's better than Stealth Device.

I get the hull upgrade. Can anyone fill me in on why they think the bid to PS3 is worth it? In my mind, the ability to get a guaranteed block on U-boats is far more important than the ability to exchange simultaneous fire. In addition, my testing so far shows U-boats to be a good match up for triple X7, as 3AG + F +E will often shrug off a 4-hit torpedo with either 1 or no damage. I'm scratching my head as to a match up that would benefit strongly from PS3.

Countess Ryad + VI (33)

Glaive Sq. + Adaptability (32)

Stele + calculation (34)

All decent PS7, move in any order you want. Ryad ability works great with X7. Strip shields with Ryad and Glaive before shooting with Stele to pick your crit. Can switch calculation to crack shot or juke. Other option is swarm tactics for Stele and drop Glaive to a delta. Gives you another 4 points to work with.

Why not:

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)

Adaptability (Increase) (0)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Glaive (34)

+juke

-Tie.x7

[34]

Glaive (34)

+juke

-Tie.x7

[34]

Delta (30)

-Tie/x7

+engine upgrade

[32]

zoom zoom! block of doom!

I really like the list of janusgeminus - I was planning to run exactly that list, but now I am thinking that it's biggest advantage is also it's biggest problem - it is so simple, that it may be too simple..

T70 Driver gave an interesting idea, but... isn't that like a welcome to shoot at Ryad first? She is obvious first target as she is the most dangerous in late game (out of all 3).

Therefore I would like to offer another list that is similar in a way to what was mentioned before:

If you like to block, drop Glaive to Delta (save 4 points) and move adaptability from Ryad to Vessery (they will both fly at PS5 and you can give her so much needed PtL with which she can support Vess). And you have 1 point for initiative bid. Or if you like to gamble a bit, give Ryad Expose/Opportunist (especially good for U-boats). Have fun.

blade_mercurial has had a lot of success in the Vassal league running Onyx with Hull. In the present Torpedo/Crack Shot meta, it's better than Stealth Device.

I get the hull upgrade. Can anyone fill me in on why they think the bid to PS3 is worth it? In my mind, the ability to get a guaranteed block on U-boats is far more important than the ability to exchange simultaneous fire. In addition, my testing so far shows U-boats to be a good match up for triple X7, as 3AG + F +E will often shrug off a 4-hit torpedo with either 1 or no damage. I'm scratching my head as to a match up that would benefit strongly from PS3.

The only reason for the PS 3 is simultaneous fire with jumpmasters. Interesting thing against them is that triple X-7 defenders do not care about initiative, whereas the torpedo scout player does. If he gets initiative, you lose the ability to block, but it opens up your k-turns a bit (although he can still block them, but likely he will have to use a barrel roll to do so, and won't have a precious focus token). It also lets you arc-dodge with your own barrel roll (and assuming you have a free evade, his primary attack is unlikely to get through your defenses). Obviously, getting to move first allows the chance to block, but it also means a savvy opponent will plop his big bases right in your 4k zone to deny your ability to turn around easily.

But yeah, I agree that the jump to PS 3 is not huge. Frankly, X-7s have a very strong match against torpedo scouts, regardless of who is moving first, so PS 1 or PS 3 doesn't matter much.

Recently I have been having the most success with Triple Glaives sporting crack shot and X-7. 99 points gives a slight bid to help against other PS 6's (will be more common once Imp Vets is out!)

For the current meta, this is undoubtedly the strongest triple defender list. PS 6 gives you the edge against crack swarms. X-7 protects you against torpedo boats. Crack shot allows you to punch through Soontir and Inquisitor's defenses.

I've also tried 2 Glaives w/ Juke + delta w/ engine (the list that Fickle posted above). I like it, because the delta is really great against torpedo scouts and even swarms, but Juke is just not enough against aces. Soontir is effectively immune to it and if palpatine is around, even the other aces are not bothered by Juke as much. Triple crack shot glaives is just better all around. Imp aces is your hardest matchup, and I always look for cards that give the best chance of winning the hard matchups. Crack shot is the only EPT that punches reliably through their defenses, therefore its the way to go. Just remember to kill Palp shuttle first. The nice thing about defenders with X-7 is that they can really 'bully' aces. At range 1, aces are more likely to get the hell out then to trade fire with you thanks to the 3 shields you have (and they don't). Fly right in their face and scare them off then shoot the shuttle until its dead (don't waste your crack shots on the shuttle though!)

Oh yeah, one last thing about flying triple X-7's. Don't fall into the mindset that you NEED 3+ speed moves all the time! For the opening shooting, yes, its highly recommended, but once one of your ships takes some damage, you know your opponent is going after that one to finish it off. Keep the speed up for the free evade on the damaged X-7, but don't be afraid to slow down with your other 2 defenders (whatever gets you the best positioning!).

The nice thing about defenders with X-7 is that they can really 'bully' aces. Fly right in their face and scare them off then shoot the shuttle until its dead (don't waste your crack shots on the shuttle though!)

I've been gaming out Defenders (either title) against various Palp/Aces matchups and from what I've seen, this is almost shockingly true. You ignore the aces and hammer on Palp for a couple turns. You get Palp down, and all of a sudden luck starts to come into play. Your Defender's shell isn't quite as hard as the ace, but you've got the HP, and time ends up being on your side.

I've been loving Ryad with x7, PTL, and Engine Upgrade (39 points) probably more than any other ship in the game right now, so my triple x7 list would be:

Ryad, PTL, x7, Engine Upgrade 39 points

Onyx, x7 30

Onyx, x7 30

Seriously, I have never seen a ship that was so hard to kill, so tough to block, so fast, and so good at blocking while arc dodging while getting something in arc. It's just straight nuts. She's an amazing arc dodger, even against higher PS stuff, because you can be like "there's a place you can't shoot at. I'm going to go there, and you're going to have to bump me, get shot by me, or spend all your actions getting out of my arc, in which case I'll shoot at someone else."

Ryad, PTL, x7, Engine Upgrade 39 points

Onyx, x7 30

Onyx, x7 30

I love this build too and its on my 'to-fly' list...

I still think triple glaives w/ crack is superior thanks to the 'alpha-strike' at PS6.

But I agree totally on Ryad. She flies like NOTHING else in the game. I've tried her without Engine and I've tried her with outmaneouvre, but that build there is just better and more fun to fly. I also want to run her alongside Soontir and a pair of academies (I got the idea from you, so thanks! )

Ryand is pretty fun

hell, all in all, I was actually kinda meh on the new defenders (why? no guaranteed damage. I almost never play lists without them)

literally just put them on the table yesterday, and my opinion did a white 4k

now these guys are jousters and there's something just so immensely satisfying about running around with such reliable ships sitting behind a pile of blue and green tokens.

Even when my Glaive predictably blanked two rounds in a row, shields and x7 were there to save the day! (ignore the inquisitor, he's just there because I don't have 3 defenders yet )

I don't think I'd put EU on any of them apart from any silly Delta x7 blockers I'd want to fly, though. While the merit is understandable, it just seems like a cop-out

I don't see a lot of talk on the 39 point Countess build, and I honestly wasn't a fan on paper, but when I put it on the table, this was me:

I would totally run that Fel list if I was any good at Fel. I don't have the innate patience necessary for most aces. That's why I'm loving Ryad. You get to dodge arcs, but you get to fly balls-out crazy and you get to be aggressive every single turn.

Speaking of, ryand + vess make a nice alternative to the double glaive depending on what else you want in the list

While I love juke glaives, ryand ups the offensive reliability of both herself and her good buddy vess with her essentially consequence free ptl

That's just

ptl Tie/mk2 tie/x7 ryand (36)

Juke or crack Tie/x7 vess (34/35)

Leaving 30 to 29 points, which is a simple fit for a naked x7 generic defender

Personally I'd want to try death fire, but this is about triple defenders

Actually Fickle, that Pic shows a pretty good example of what I meant by 'bullying' aces.

I know that's YOUR inquisitor, but imagine that was an opponent's inquisitor (or other ace). The position of the two defenders is almost perfect. If an opponent had inquisitor in this position against those two defenders, he'd be taking damage even if he 'turtled' (TL + focus actions). Or he can boost forward + barrel roll to get out of both arcs (but then the Defenders can k-turn to follow and he loses his own shot). There's no way he can use BR or boost to escape both defender arcs and still get a shot.

That's the sort of position that defender players should aim to put their ships when facing enemy arc-dodgers

Not a 3 Defender list, but here's what I've been playing around with

Vessery, TIE/D, Ion, crack shot, Mk II (40)

Ryad, TIE/x7, Outmaneuver, Mk II (36)

Then you've got 24 points to play with. I've been liking OL, juke, Mk II to fill in that gap. And OL and Vessery make great pals since it's to OL's benefit never to burn his TL, leaving it there for Vess to abuse.

People tend to go after Vessery in that build, because **** does he crank out damage, and they try to get him off the board before he takes too many ships down. That frees up Ryad to abuse Outmaneuver with her insane K-turning ability and OL to aggravate whomever he's got a TL on, since combining it with his ability is like having a reusable Crack Shot, as long as you've got an evade token.

Not a 3 Defender list, but here's what I've been playing around with

Vessery, TIE/D, Ion, crack shot, Mk II (40)

Ryad, TIE/x7, Outmaneuver, Mk II (36)

Then you've got 24 points to play with. I've been liking OL, juke, Mk II to fill in that gap. And OL and Vessery make great pals since it's to OL's benefit never to burn his TL, leaving it there for Vess to abuse.

People tend to go after Vessery in that build, because **** does he crank out damage, and they try to get him off the board before he takes too many ships down. That frees up Ryad to abuse Outmaneuver with her insane K-turning ability and OL to aggravate whomever he's got a TL on, since combining it with his ability is like having a reusable Crack Shot, as long as you've got an evade token.

If you drop the Mk2 upgrades, you can fit in a 'proper' Omega Leader with Juke + comm relay.

But regardless, keeping Vessery alive in any list is the big problem when running him. Either you ace the approach (so he doesn't get blown to bits) or you go up against a really skilled opponent that wrecks him no matter what you do. For that reason, I feel its necessary to run him with a blocker. Seinar Test Pilot goes really well with him and is relatively cheap.

I've also considered a Doom Shuttle (or a zoom shuttle----with engine to bone torpedo scouts). Either of those would fit in your list nicely too, although I haven't actually tried them yet.

Not a 3 Defender list, but here's what I've been playing around with

Vessery, TIE/D, Ion, crack shot, Mk II (40)

Ryad, TIE/x7, Outmaneuver, Mk II (36)

Then you've got 24 points to play with. I've been liking OL, juke, Mk II to fill in that gap. And OL and Vessery make great pals since it's to OL's benefit never to burn his TL, leaving it there for Vess to abuse.

People tend to go after Vessery in that build, because **** does he crank out damage, and they try to get him off the board before he takes too many ships down. That frees up Ryad to abuse Outmaneuver with her insane K-turning ability and OL to aggravate whomever he's got a TL on, since combining it with his ability is like having a reusable Crack Shot, as long as you've got an evade token.

If you drop the Mk2 upgrades, you can fit in a 'proper' Omega Leader with Juke + comm relay.

But regardless, keeping Vessery alive in any list is the big problem when running him. Either you ace the approach (so he doesn't get blown to bits) or you go up against a really skilled opponent that wrecks him no matter what you do. For that reason, I feel its necessary to run him with a blocker. Seinar Test Pilot goes really well with him and is relatively cheap.

I've also considered a Doom Shuttle (or a zoom shuttle----with engine to bone torpedo scouts). Either of those would fit in your list nicely too, although I haven't actually tried them yet.

True, you need to be careful in your strategy when you run this list. If you run against swarms, you can't fly all 3 ships together or else there's nothing stopping the enemy from focus firing Vessery to death. If you spread out, putting Ryad on the opposite side of the map, your opponent can't ignore her with Outmaneuver because out of arc she'll rip even a 3 defense dice ship to shreds by dropping them to 2 dice. But against smaller numbers, Vessery is a killer. I run this list fully expecting Vessery to get killed, but not before taking out at least 2 ships himself. And that leaves you with OL and Ryad, who are two of the better finishers in the game. Ryad could arguably be the best finisher in the game.

And honestly, I'm not in love with Comm Relay. I'd rather have a bunch more options to shed stress allowing me to throw a red hard-1 with a Defender to fake out an opponent. If you use Juke with OL on someone he's got target locked, it's an automatic -1 evade which makes his 2 unmodified dice significantly more dangerous. And I like to use his red Sloop a lot so it's good to have some extra green dial options in my opinion.

And honestly, I'm not in love with Comm Relay. I'd rather have a bunch more options to shed stress allowing me to throw a red hard-1 with a Defender to fake out an opponent. If you use Juke with OL on someone he's got target locked, it's an automatic -1 evade which makes his 2 unmodified dice significantly more dangerous. And I like to use his red Sloop a lot so it's good to have some extra green dial options in my opinion.

There's really no reason not to put Comm relay on him. You can't take TL and evade in the same turn, so without the relay, OL is not capable of being dangerous in a single turn. He's also toothless whenever he performs a red move. You also lose the utility of the 'defensive' target lock in some cases, since switching target locks leaves you tokenless for defense. Its so good and increases OL's flexibility considerably. I'm a bit baffled that you can't see the huge benefit it provides...

And honestly, I'm not in love with Comm Relay. I'd rather have a bunch more options to shed stress allowing me to throw a red hard-1 with a Defender to fake out an opponent. If you use Juke with OL on someone he's got target locked, it's an automatic -1 evade which makes his 2 unmodified dice significantly more dangerous. And I like to use his red Sloop a lot so it's good to have some extra green dial options in my opinion.