Commander Narwhal!
The Avenger's got E-Wing stats and a better cost and better dial. Granted, the E-Wing costs too much right now, but be careful with that thing.
Custom Card League: The Four Custom Ships Coming to Vassal!
Drat. Maybe next time! Top 4 from how many entrants?
33, I think. Lots of submissions!
Apparnetly my clawcraft was really polarizing. 70 upvotes (which was amongst the highest), but also 68 downvotes, and only 11 (the lowest number, tied with 1 other) no opinions.
I'd be curious to hear people's opinions on why they downvoted, whether for fluff reasons, thought it was unbalanced, would have preferred a different faction, just didn't like it, etc.
I also noticed this; not many other ships had similar voting profiles. Very curious! Maybe next time I will have a write-in box to hear opinions like that.
Well, what if the best Rebel ship had more negative votes than positive votes? Plenty of submitted ships did have overall negative scores. Considering that I had no idea how many ships we would get as submissions when I started this project, it was a distinct possibility that if I reserved one ship slot for each faction, that we would end up with an unpopular ships taking the place of a popular one. What would happen in terms of participation if we implemented one of those ships on a technicality? It happened to not be the case, but please remember that this is a highly experimental project.
Well since you bring that up, I was going to highlight using your formulas how subtracting negative from positive is unfair, but I got busy with the actual cards. I should have just been like or no opinion, and not subtracted.
Which reminds me Is there a reason you're not disclosing the google analytics?
This is the link and it says you need permission to see the votes.
If it were unlocked it would look something like this example:
I'm curious the reasoning behind the formula being unfair. Seems to me like it's nice to have an option to say you don't want a ship vs just "no opinion".
There's just something misaligned about cancelling polar opposites that gives the wrong final tally impression.
If you didn't know that your ship had gotten 100 likes and 100 dislikes, you might think the zero represented apathy.
I'm tempted to list the votes and see who would have one just based on Likes.
Oh I do not like a bomb being on that V-Wing one bit.
Why not? Looks to be lore-accurate according to wookiepedia:
Armament
- Twin laser cannons(2)[1]
- Some were equipped with Flak guns and Proton bombs [4]
Battlefront 2 (a game that gets far more acclaim than it deserves) had a really bad habit of misrepresenting ships just to pile them into gameplay roles, that's where the cannon/bomb stuff comes from.
Yeah, that.
I'm sorry, those bombs have got to go. I know, I'm being almost pointlessly demanding, but it was hardly a standard feature on that vessel. They were the poor man's ETA-2 in the GAR, essentially.
Though they were really **** nice
I kind of like them as an upgrade card, but on the main statline ew no.
There's just something misaligned about cancelling polar opposites that gives the wrong final tally impression.
If you didn't know that your ship had gotten 100 likes and 100 dislikes, you might think the zero represented apathy.
I'm tempted to list the votes and see who would have one just based on Likes.
I don't really understand your point about the polar opposites, in terms of being relevant to the final decision making, but I did a quick tally of the votes and going by 'likes' only, the Scimitar Assault Bomber and Clawcraft would be tied for 4th at 70 likes. But enough people did not like those designs to swing the vote in favor of the TIE Avenger, which I think is relevant (even though it bumped my ship out of the top 4!).
Which reminds me Is there a reason you're not disclosing the google analytics?
This is the link and it says you need permission to see the votes.
If it were unlocked it would look something like this example:
Oh, I didn't know I could publish results like that. I thought I would have to transcribe them all to make them public. The option to publish results is not super obvious; they should be public now; try to check them.
You'll probably have to say yes to porting it from docs to excel.
Well, what if the best Rebel ship had more negative votes than positive votes? Plenty of submitted ships did have overall negative scores. Considering that I had no idea how many ships we would get as submissions when I started this project, it was a distinct possibility that if I reserved one ship slot for each faction, that we would end up with an unpopular ships taking the place of a popular one. What would happen in terms of participation if we implemented one of those ships on a technicality? It happened to not be the case, but please remember that this is a highly experimental project.
Well since you bring that up, I was going to highlight using your formulas how subtracting negative from positive is unfair, but I got busy with the actual cards. I should have just been like or no opinion, and not subtracted.
Which reminds me Is there a reason you're not disclosing the google analytics?
This is the link and it says you need permission to see the votes.
If it were unlocked it would look something like this example:
I'm curious the reasoning behind the formula being unfair. Seems to me like it's nice to have an option to say you don't want a ship vs just "no opinion".
There's just something misaligned about cancelling polar opposites that gives the wrong final tally impression.
If you didn't know that your ship had gotten 100 likes and 100 dislikes, you might think the zero represented apathy.
I'm tempted to list the votes and see who would have one just based on Likes.
Assault Gunboat (79 upvotes), v-wing (100 upvotes), sorosuub luxury yacht (78 upvotes) would all be in either way. Going by only upvotes, the final position would be a tie between the clawcraft (68 downvotes, net +2) and scimitar assault bomber (59 downvotes, net +11). The avenger had 67 upvotes, but only 53 downvotes, putting it at a net of +14. So only 1 of the ships would have changed even doing it that way.
This is another option you might have missed.
Which reminds me Is there a reason you're not disclosing the google analytics?
This is the link and it says you need permission to see the votes.
If it were unlocked it would look something like this example:
Oh, I didn't know I could publish results like that. I thought I would have to transcribe them all to make them public. The option to publish results is not super obvious; they should be public now; try to check them.
You'll probably have to say yes to porting it from docs to excel.
don't see that option but here is the link to the docs output: DOC
I feel like with the default Hull rating of TIEs being 3 (everything but the Bomber, Punisher and TAP), it feels off to have 2 Hull on the Avenger. I'd have swapped it to 3/3/3/2 instead, befitting its original lore as being the final production model of the TIE Advancedx1. There's nothing about the TIE Avenger that suggests it would be more structurally fragile than the line fighters. It's a fairly beefy ship.
Its dial is somewhat lacking too, and uncharacteristic of TIEs with the 1 straight. A drawback of TIE craft in X-Wing is that they are almost too fast for their own good. The Avenger was supposed to be another ship in that vein. I'd like to see it sit somewhere unique in the TIE meta, rather than just be sort of an Interceptor/Advanced Prototype mash-up with a little Defender flavor mixed in, but still maintain that feel the game has established for TIEs. Strip the 1 straight, and maybe even the 1 turns (bringing it in line with the Advanced), and replace them with the 2 Sloop. That gives it some kind of unique position in the game, but keeps it in line as the TIE Advanced's upgraded successor. Then flip either the 1 banks or the 2 turns to green to offset the lack of the straight 1 green (I'd go with the 1 banks).
I think this Statline, as represented on Odanan's card, as fair and in keeping with the lore.
The Avenger was considered by some to be a superior craft to it's successor, the Defender because of it's high survivability and fewer blind spots.
It's differentiation from TIE craft that came before it was the "quality over quantity" ceiling that it broke.
Odanan's combination of the TAP's reduced hull and the improved shields of the Defender set his design apart from both.
Give the maneuver dial an Sloop at speed 3, and I think this ship would be a wonderful addition to this game.
Edited by EasyEI would definitely rub those Assault Gunboat and TIE Avengers all over my naked body if they were real.
My body is ready FFG please make my fantasy come true.
I don't think the V-Wing should have red 1 hards or a red 5 straight. The 5 straight is easiest to explain: a 4 straight and a boost is faster than a 5 straight. There is no reason, ever, why anyone would use a red 5 straight on a ship with a white 4 straight and a boost. It should simply be a white maneuver.
As for the red 1 hards... Given the complete lack of green turns or even banks at 1-2 speed, it's a fast ship that will struggle to go fast, and an agile ship that can't turn, because again, it's 5 straight is red and it has no green turns, which, for a low-cost arc dodger, makes no sense. Counting chaardan refit, it's an A-Wing with an inferior action bar and infinitely worse dial for one less point. The dial kind of needs to be redone. White 1 hards, white 5 straight, and a green hard turn SOMEWHERE on the dial.
Edited by Razgriz25thinfWhite 1 hards, white 5 straight, and a green hard turn SOMEWHERE on the dial.
Sounds a lot like a TIE interceptor.
White 1 hards, white 5 straight, and a green hard turn SOMEWHERE on the dial.
Sounds a lot like a TIE interceptor.
Considering that the ship should be, you know, actually usable in it's role as an arc dodger, yeah. It's dial should be interceptor-esk.
As of right now, it's dial is unsuitable for a role other than arc-dodging due to a lack of any non-red, non-turn 1 speed maneuvers, lacks the firepower and HP to loiter and do damage, and yet it's dial is also unsuited to the arc-dodging necessary for that type of ship to be able to survive, i'd say that's a problem. It's too fast to use as a bomber, so why it has a bomb slot OTHER than the obvious non-canon reasoning is beyond me, but too slow and not agile enough to dance around the enemy.
The Scyk doesnt have green hard turns(it's 1 hards were white though, and had green 1 banks). Why? it could mount a cannon. It had the capacity for straight forward damage. Interceptors, A-Wings, V-Wings; these craft don't have that offensive option, and as such, rely heavily on their action bar and dial to allow it to be effective. This is especially true of a 2-attack craft of this nature.
From a design standpoint, it's necessary for this craft, given what it's going up against in this league, like the possibility of 5 gunboats with manglers, which will rip the current V-Wing iteration to shreds, unless it has the ability to outmaneuver them, which it currently does not.
The V-Wing is, even more so than it is fast, an extremely agile craft. What this dial plays it up to be is too fast for 1 speed maneuvers, yet somehow not fast enough for a white 5 straight. It's also portrayed here as an excessively unmaneuverable ship, with only 2 green angled maneuvers. Out of 12 maneuvers that change the bearing of the V-Wing, only 2 of them happen to be green, neither of them a turn. This sounds less like an agility 3 craft, and more like an agility 1 or 2 craft.
Edited by Razgriz25thinfI don't think the V-Wing should have red 1 hards or a red 5 straight. The 5 straight is easiest to explain: a 4 straight and a boost is faster than a 5 straight. There is no reason, ever, why anyone would use a red 5 straight on a ship with a white 4 straight and a boost. It should simply be a white maneuver.
No readon ever is rather strong. First thing I thought of after reading that statement is if theres someone blocking you from doing a 3-4 straight. In wwhich case you cant do one of those thrn boost, but a 5s, even if red, would clear it
I don't think the V-Wing should have red 1 hards or a red 5 straight. The 5 straight is easiest to explain: a 4 straight and a boost is faster than a 5 straight. There is no reason, ever, why anyone would use a red 5 straight on a ship with a white 4 straight and a boost. It should simply be a white maneuver.
No readon ever is rather strong. First thing I thought of after reading that statement is if theres someone blocking you from doing a 3-4 straight. In wwhich case you cant do one of those thrn boost, but a 5s, even if red, would clear
That's a pretty corner case situation, and also not really a justification for having the 5 straight be red. It's fast enough to not have 1 speed straights or banks, but not fast enough for the 5 straight to be white?
OK, added a second title for the Avenger. Not convinced by the ability, though.
There is one thing you're not taking into account here - the V-Wing has access to Unhinged Astromech, which gives it Green turns on tap. I'll share the cards I had been working on to go alongside the V-Wing.
When I initially submitted my design, this title was incorporated into the cost and the dial, but it felt very awkward until I separated them.
The V-Wing was designed to use spherical Q7 astromechs. I went for BB-8's evil twin when I designed this card, to help mitigate some of the awkward red moves on the dial.
A second astromech is again about changing the way red moves affect a ship.
I wanted something for the Illicit slot that would help low-skill interceptors compete with aces.
The two named pilots I went with are bounty hunters both known to work with the Hutts - the first thrives under stress.
The second is raw action economy
Finally, if the ship were to lose the Bomb icon, which is probably a good call, this Title would represent the modified V-Wings originally deployed by the 501st Legion.
Yeah, but i dont want to spend a point and lock down the best slot on the ship just to get it something approaching decent at it's role, which still doesnt cover the 1 hards and 5 straights. Especially if it's a named pilot, who wants more expensive, better astromechs. It's a deficiency in the dial, and significantly hampers the ships options when you're forced to choose between making it a good arc dodger, or another good astromech. You've tried too hard to make Unhinged Astromech less of a value by making most of the green maneuvers at speed 3. At that point, it's almost up for debate as to whether or not Unhinged is even worth it for just 2 maneuvers.
The salvaged q7 is aight, although the cooler part about BB-8 is using PTL for more actions, which you can't do with this one. It's definitely not worth the same as bb-8, as red maneuvers are, inherently, inferior to greens. Alpha-3 title seems good.
Neutron Pixie and Greedo makes little sense. Namely, it's hard to take advantage of PS 12 when you're stressed and can't take any actions.
Edited by Razgriz25thinf
Neutron Pixie and Greedo makes little sense. Namely, it's hard to take advantage of PS 12 when you're stressed and can't take any actions.
If you start out stressed, you're PS12 for the activation phase. That means you move after literally everyone else in the game. And you can do a green maneuver, which clears the stress and lets you do actions. Then if you use PTL, you're back to PS12 for the combat phase.
or you can start unstressed, do a red maneuver, ptl, whatever to end up stressed, and still be PS12 for the combat phase (if you aren't arcdodged).
The same can apply to Neutron Pixie. Just gotta do a green maneuver.
Edited by VanderLegion
Neutron Pixie and Greedo makes little sense. Namely, it's hard to take advantage of PS 12 when you're stressed and can't take any actions.
If you start out stressed, you're PS12 for the activation phase. That means you move after literally everyone else in the game. And you can do a green maneuver, which clears the stress and lets you do actions. Then if you use PTL, you're back to PS12 for the combat phase.
or you can start unstressed, do a red maneuver, ptl, whatever to end up stressed, and still be PS12 for the combat phase (if you aren't arcdodged).
The same can apply to Neutron Pixie. Just gotta do a green maneuver.
Greedo doesnt have an EPT slot, so you can only get through the activation phase at PS 12, and only get one action. Even still, we've seen what an ability that requires a specific circumstance to get to PS12 looks like with Zeta Ace, who... never sees use. Greedo is very difficult to set up, and likely not very effective while he's there in the first place.
Also, again, the dial doesnt really lend itself to that kind of play, giving you only straight maneuvers and 3 speed banks to work with on that.
Updated the Gunboat and the Avenger in the first page. Take a look.
An adjusted dial might be along these lines.
Which is, without a doubt, magnitudes stronger than what I originally proposed.
With the changes also implemented on the pilot cards, they would look something like this.
Then the two titles would show the two different ways we have seen V-Wings deployed.
This is good stuff, Mangipan!
I'm with Mangipan: if you want to upgrade a V-wing into an arc dodger the options are there, but the ship itself isn't a TIE interceptor or A-wing. It's an antique swarmer that you can mod up into something more.
The white 5 straight I can get behind: that or no 5 straight. I wouldn't give it green two hards unless you remove its three turns entirely: two sets of green turns is unprecedented: the balancing factor to green turn PTL spam is its predictability.
Personally I'd turn the turns back to white.unless you're looking to make another PTL addict.
Edited by Blue FiveAnother option for the V-Wing dial would be leaving the Green 2-turns on the dial, but dropping the 3-turns entirely.
I've been thinking about the Gunboat - it might be a good place to put an Imperial support pilot.
