This happened in a game (and was the decider for us)...

An ISD is Near the edge of the Board, travelling at Speed 3, with an Engineering Command.

If it is moved normally, in any configuration of its maneuver tool, a big portion of it will be "off the board".

It is Turn 6.

My Opponent cannily moved a Demolisher right into the path of the ISD, so that at speed 3, the majority of the ship was "off the board", but one tiny fraction was overlapping the Demolisher.

- Which Rule takes Precedence?

The Overlap/ramming Rule, in which we moved the ISD back along the maneuver tool (and actually ended up being a Speed 0 maneuver, thus saving the ISD from destruction), or the fact that the majority would be off the board, so it would be off the board?



....

I ruled it at the time in agreeance and favour of my opponent . I believed that the Ship-Off-The-Table only applies to the final position, if it were actually being placed there. But because a portion was overlapping, I played the overlapping rules as a precedence... (And thus, cost me the game).

But I'm going to kick it around here for consensus before firing an Email off to FFG....

P8: If a ship executes a maneuver and its final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its maneuver normally. Instead, temporarily reduce its speed by one (without changing the speed dial) and move the ship at the new speed. This process continues until the ship can finish
its maneuver, even if that maneuver is to remain in place at speed “0.” Then deal one facedown damage card to the ship that moved and the closest ship that it overlapped.

p9: If any portion of a ship’s or squadron’s base is outside the play area, that ship or squadron is destroyed. For this purpose, ignore activation sliders, shield dials, and the plastic portions of a ship’s base that frame shield dials.

So you don't finish you maneuver, instead you move back with a temporary speed decrease. Once you have moved and finished then you test to see if you are off the board, I would think you have to finish your move.

The reverse of the situation is not true after all: If you moved at speed three and ended on the board but at speed 1 or 2 were off the board would you would test at each speed to see if you flew off? Which is contrary to the above rules and the FAQ.

P8: If a ship executes a maneuver and its final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its maneuver normally. Instead, temporarily reduce its speed by one (without changing the speed dial) and move the ship at the new speed. This process continues until the ship can finish

its maneuver, even if that maneuver is to remain in place at speed “0.” Then deal one facedown damage card to the ship that moved and the closest ship that it overlapped.

p9: If any portion of a ship’s or squadron’s base is outside the play area, that ship or squadron is destroyed. For this purpose, ignore activation sliders, shield dials, and the plastic portions of a ship’s base that frame shield dials.

So you don't finish you maneuver, instead you move back with a temporary speed decrease. Once you have moved and finished then you test to see if you are off the board, I would think you have to finish your move.

The reverse of the situation is not true after all: If you moved at speed three and ended on the board but at speed 1 or 2 were off the board would you would test at each speed to see if you flew off? Which is contrary to the above rules and the FAQ.

That's what I we thought - You havn't finished your maneuver because you are overlapping. So you can't even test if you're off the board in that position, as the position is overlapping.

At Speed 3: Mostly off Board, partially overlapping... = Overlapping , move to speed 2.

At Speed 2: Partially Off board, partially overlapping... = Overlapping , move to speed 1.

At Speed 1: Fractionally off board, mostly overlapping... = Overlapping, move to speed 0.

At Speed 0: On Board in current position.

Demolisher took 1 Damage (and exploded, as it had been heavily damaged). ISD stayed on the board. Opponent happy that he traded a 90pt Demolisher for an almost 200pt Tooled out Flagship ISD.

In the opposite situation - we have a rules statement that says Only the Final Position matters in a maneuver. You ignore anything in the middle of the maneuver until you finish, including overlapping, obstacles, off-the-board, and all that. Even if part of your manuver tool is off the table, as long as your final position is on, you're on. (FAQ)..... But if that final position was overlapping, you'd have to scoot with a slower maneuver, and that might end you off the board over all - you don't test it until you can't place in your final position.

I would agree with the way you played it - only the final position matters for determining if you are off or on. You do not determine final position until you are no longer overlapping a ship. So you resolve the effects of overlapping until you are no longer overlapping, then you determine final position.

Me being pedantic: I suspect that everyone reading this means "end of maneuver" by final position, but just want to have the rule be as clear as possible.

FAQ, Rieekan:

"If a ship or squadron would be destroyed by leaving the play area, it is destroyed immediately"

So, no engine techs, no Demolisher post-move firing, etc. The instant you finish being placed out-of-bounds, you go poof.

Indeed. Hence why, despite making the ruling, I'm looking for Community consensus before kicking it to FFG

I would argue that the overlap (P8 Above) prevents the ISD from moving 3 so then it is saved from the off the board condition.

Also, that Demolisher was definitely Greeble-hauled.

The overlap happens before it would leave the play area. The ship doesn't ever actually land outside the play area, so the "remove immediately" doesn't resolve. Look at the timing:

If a ship executes a maneuver and its final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its maneuver normally.

If any portion of a ship’s or squadron’s base is outside the play area, that ship or squadron is destroyed.

No portion of the base ever ends up in the potential final location, because the maneuver that would have put it there doesn't resolve unmodified.

I'd like to Thank Everyone for their Responses

Everyone doubts themselves after all...

I don't see how the Rieekan FAQ changes the argument one way or the other. I think we need to instead focus on the wording of Overlapping to determine order of operations/rules precedence.

Rules Reference, Page 8 under "Overlapping"

If a ship executes a maneuver and its final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its maneuver normally.

And page 17 of Learn to Play:

If the moving ship's final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its movement normally.

So this sets an important precedent - "would" indicates that you check for overlap before the ship returns to the table . And cannot clearly states that the ship is not completing its maneuver, and is not being placed back on the table. At least not yet.

Now let's look at the FAQ for some more information:

Q - When a ship executes a maneuver, does it move along the maneuver tool?

A - No. The ship is picked up from its starting position and placed in its final position. It ignores any obstacles, ships and squadrons that its base does not overlap in its final position .

And the next question:

Q - When a ship executes a maneuver, is it destroyed if part of the maneuver tool is outside the play area but the ship itself is entirely inside the play area?

A - No.

This clearly establishes that, while a ship is picked up as part of a maneuver, it cannot be "outside the play area." In essence, it doesn't exist until it is placed back on the table .

Unfortunately, the wording on going off the table is a little ambiguous:

If any portion of a ship’s or squadron’s base is outside the play area, that ship or squadron is destroyed. For this purpose, ignore activation sliders, shield dials, and the plastic portions of a ship’s base that frame shield dials.

However, given the second FAQ answer above, it is clear that you do not determine "outside the play area" until the ship is physically on the table at the end of its movement.

Ultimately, the procedure for "picking up and placing" a ship comes down to this:

1. Place maneuver tool and insert into the ship's base.
2. Pick up ship.
3. Attempt to place ship back on the table, check for Overlapping.
4. If you would overlap another ship, reduce speed by one.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 as necessary.
6. Place ship on the table with the appropriate joint on the maneuver tool inserted into its base.
7. If the ship is outside the play area, it is destroyed.

In between steps 1 and 6, where the ship is compared to the play area, other ships, obstacles or squadrons is irrelevant.

My purpose for raising rieekan was only to emphasize that it's the final position for a maneuver, not final position for movement. Engine Techs or quantum storm allow multiple maneuvers per movement.

I agree with you that the overlapping rules prevent the moving ship from going off-map if the off-map position would result in overlapping a ship.

Off board: final position.

You have to finish a maneuver in order to check the position to see if it is off the board.

Yup, follow the regular movement sequence. you have to complete the maneuver before checking for out of bounds. ship doesn't complete the maneuver until overlap is resolved as normal.

That was one beautiful piece of making the rules work for you.

One time, when I was driving on an icy road, the vehicle lost traction and began sliding. Normally not a big deal but it was in a slight curve and there was a sizable ditch on the outside of this curve . . . much like the edge of your play area in many respects. I applied all the appropriate measures to regain traction. I was already going slow (not speed 3) and eased into the turn. As I slid, I counter-steered and took my feet off the gas and brake. Fortunately, my tires found traction just before sliding off into the ditch and I DID NOT end my maneuver offside. I think having another vehicle there to stop my progression into the ditch would have been costly but advantageous. Give your opponent the Finkle-Hammerstein Award for the most knuckle-headed maneuver to prevent a calamity. :-/ and maybe a red card too while you're at it just cuz.