Both types get depressed when facing super-DASH or some other PWT.

Aggressors eat dash alive. Especially rainbow dash. If they're trading hlc hits, the extra agility, thrusters, and fcs give the aggressors an enormous advantage, and dash burns quickly.

Honest question PGS, but is it possible your (apparently) intense dislike for acewimg colouring your list building more than it maybe needs to?

Aces are a pain in the ass for sure with Palp but I've found the Predator adv sensors set up punched through ok against them, it was not getting nibbled to death in return I found harder.

Hence my desire to stack focus and evade.

Meet Fel

He can pop up to three evades out of thin air

If you're not IG-B WIth FCS HLK and Crackshot, you're quite screwed.

Both types get depressed when facing super-DASH or some other PWT.

Aggressors eat dash alive. Especially rainbow dash. If they're trading hlc hits, the extra agility, thrusters, and fcs give the aggressors an enormous advantage, and dash burns quickly.

PS7, ignores obstacles, can shoot HLK out of his butt, can have TL+Focus like every turn.

Honest question PGS, but is it possible your (apparently) intense dislike for acewimg colouring your list building more than it maybe needs to?

Aces are a pain in the ass for sure with Palp but I've found the Predator adv sensors set up punched through ok against them, it was not getting nibbled to death in return I found harder.

Hence my desire to stack focus and evade.

In games where I face Acewings, Feedback is great. It won me my top 16 match at a Regionals. I had Feedbacked multiple times leading up to the last turn over the course of the game to put easy damage on Omega Leader and an early damage on the Inquisitor. Last turn it ended up with a 1 health Inquisitor against a 3 health Aggressor. My opponent wasn't sure if a boost or BR would get out of range one, so he decided to stay put and try to kill me/get me to one health so I couldn't Feedback since he had initiative and would win the draw. My green dice triple evaded and I killed the Inquisitor automatically.

People around here want this place to be a hugbox and automatically dismiss your opinion if you complain about things or say the word, "autoloss". Having a negative, pessimistic attitude about things does not make you wrong. Look at World War 1's western front.

It's not really getting pounded by one list archetype that angers me, it's accounting for one and having an uphill battle against another. I hate getting screwed by matchups because it's just luck at that point. My Mindlink Brobots squad does well against most things in the meta, only things it fails to are things people don't fly, or Super Dash.

Honest question PGS, but is it possible your (apparently) intense dislike for acewimg colouring your list building more than it maybe needs to?

Aces are a pain in the ass for sure with Palp but I've found the Predator adv sensors set up punched through ok against them, it was not getting nibbled to death in return I found harder.

Hence my desire to stack focus and evade.

Meet Fel

He can pop up to three evades out of thin air

If you're not IG-B WIth FCS HLK and Crackshot, you're quite screwed.

Both types get depressed when facing super-DASH or some other PWT.

Aggressors eat dash alive. Especially rainbow dash. If they're trading hlc hits, the extra agility, thrusters, and fcs give the aggressors an enormous advantage, and dash burns quickly.

PS7, ignores obstacles, can shoot HLK out of his butt, can have TL+Focus like every turn.

While it's entirely possible the Aces here aren't flown by top top tier pilots, I've really not had trouble with them. They may have boost and roll shenanigans but with your speed and unpredictability, I find the arcs can be put in a lot of places. Fel can pull that blank to nope out of thin air once a turn, Then he is relying on green dice like anyone else. When I've met him or Inquisitor, I've been able to vape them. It's not easy by any stretch but I don't think it's impossible to do against equally skilled opponents. Better opponents might be tougher but that would be the case regardless of list.

Honest question PGS, but is it possible your (apparently) intense dislike for acewimg colouring your list building more than it maybe needs to?

Aces are a pain in the ass for sure with Palp but I've found the Predator adv sensors set up punched through ok against them, it was not getting nibbled to death in return I found harder.

Hence my desire to stack focus and evade.

Meet Fel

He can pop up to three evades out of thin air

If you're not IG-B WIth FCS HLK and Crackshot, you're quite screwed.

Both types get depressed when facing super-DASH or some other PWT.

Aggressors eat dash alive. Especially rainbow dash. If they're trading hlc hits, the extra agility, thrusters, and fcs give the aggressors an enormous advantage, and dash burns quickly.

PS7, ignores obstacles, can shoot HLK out of his butt, can have TL+Focus like every turn.

While it's entirely possible the Aces here aren't flown by top top tier pilots, I've really not had trouble with them. They may have boost and roll shenanigans but with your speed and unpredictability, I find the arcs can be put in a lot of places. Fel can pull that blank to nope out of thin air once a turn, Then he is relying on green dice like anyone else. When I've met him or Inquisitor, I've been able to vape them. It's not easy by any stretch but I don't think it's impossible to do against equally skilled opponents. Better opponents might be tougher but that would be the case regardless of list.

with the SUPER PHAT LARGE BASE SYNDROME even mediocre player can easily understand where the Bro will fly, because there's not that much space around where the huge IG can land safely.

Yes, Adv sensor IG-bro can get x3 more places where he can land. especially with curved sword-style boost(bank left)+Sloop right

but still, the large base is a huge problem for a jouster.

.

PS7, ignores obstacles, can shoot HLK out of his butt, can have TL+Focus like every turn.

.

PS7, ignores obstacles, can shoot HLK out of his butt, can have TL+Focus like every turn.

If you're letting rainbow dash use both actions for offensive mods you are being completely out played. Fly better.

Superdash has katarn and Ptl. He quite literally needs only the boost.

and gaydash with kanan is the most unpredictable thing in the world, completely impossible to block&derp

I used to think Mindlink was terrible, too, but I finally decided to give it a decent workout with HLC+FCS a couple weeks ago, and it was surprisingly good in practice. The stress and movement restrictions are both manageable if you fly with them in mind, and then you've got a pseudo-AdvS (ie. almost always have Focus on both machines despite red moves or bumps) while still having the brutality of the 88B-FCS-HLC combo. Might not suit everyone's taste, but it's certainly good enough to be a legitimate option.

Yes, Adv sensor IG-bro can get x3 more places where he can land. especially with curved sword-style boost(bank left)+Sloop right

but still, the large base is a huge problem for a jouster.

Without AS I find the brobots are very predictable for the most part, especially with PTL.

Honest question PGS, but is it possible your (apparently) intense dislike for acewimg colouring your list building more than it maybe needs to?

Aces are a pain in the ass for sure with Palp but I've found the Predator adv sensors set up punched through ok against them, it was not getting nibbled to death in return I found harder.

Hence my desire to stack focus and evade.

If I know I'm not facing Acewings, I can swap Feedbacks out for Inertials and Tractor Beams and run the old damage deck.

In games where I face Acewings, Feedback is great. It won me my top 16 match at a Regionals. I had Feedbacked multiple times leading up to the last turn over the course of the game to put easy damage on Omega Leader and an early damage on the Inquisitor. Last turn it ended up with a 1 health Inquisitor against a 3 health Aggressor. My opponent wasn't sure if a boost or BR would get out of range one, so he decided to stay put and try to kill me/get me to one health so I couldn't Feedback since he had initiative and would win the draw. My green dice triple evaded and I killed the Inquisitor automatically.

People around here want this place to be a hugbox and automatically dismiss your opinion if you complain about things or say the word, "autoloss". Having a negative, pessimistic attitude about things does not make you wrong. Look at World War 1's western front.

It's not really getting pounded by one list archetype that angers me, it's accounting for one and having an uphill battle against another. I hate getting screwed by matchups because it's just luck at that point. My Mindlink Brobots squad does well against most things in the meta, only things it fails to are things people don't fly, or Super Dash.

The great thing about Brobots is they are good at everything.

The worst thing about Brobots is they are ONLY good at everything.

The aggressor is such a versatile ship with a good dial, good upgradablity, good shields, good hull, and good pilots. This means they really can fit into any meta. However, since they are so adaptable they really don't have that ONE thing all the other meta lists have going for them. This means Brobots are never the "best" choice, but will always give you a good shot at the win.

The great thing about Brobots is they are good at everything.

The worst thing about Brobots is they are ONLY good at everything.

The aggressor is such a versatile ship with a good dial, good upgradablity, good shields, good hull, and good pilots. This means they really can fit into any meta. However, since they are so adaptable they really don't have that ONE thing all the other meta lists have going for them. This means Brobots are never the "best" choice, but will always give you a good shot at the win.

well, they have the best innate defensive stat-line in the game (mathematically speaking; of course for me all ship abilities are 0)

as well as obviously the most incredible offensive short of triple scouts unloading on a poor fool. Fully modified HLCs with gunner effects AND crackshot is terrifying

they don't have the best bombs, though, despite having the slot for it I never see them used

It depends on your playstyle. If you are a purely offensive build (HLC) then facing builds that can suddenly output a larger amount of damage is nothing to take lightly.

If, however, you play a control build then things get easier. The lack of an evade token or autothrusters makes it easier to ion / tractor beam a tie defender into an unfavorable position (much easier than a fully stacked soontir with the Emperor watching over him).

I have neutralized more than one elite by simply putting myself in a position where he will bump me, him having no attack (or an inneffective one because of a lack of token), and then having the second IG tractor him back into range 1 of the first (who lands a wicked hit afterwards).

It depends on your playstyle. If you are a purely offensive build (HLC) then facing builds that can suddenly output a larger amount of damage is nothing to take lightly.

If, however, you play a control build then things get easier. The lack of an evade token or autothrusters makes it easier to ion / tractor beam a tie defender into an unfavorable position (much easier than a fully stacked soontir with the Emperor watching over him).

I have neutralized more than one elite by simply putting myself in a position where he will bump me, him having no attack (or an inneffective one because of a lack of token), and then having the second IG tractor him back into range 1 of the first (who lands a wicked hit afterwards).

I have had some great plays with the Tractor Beams like you are describing. My go to against anything that defends with lots of tokens is to space rocks out about 1.5 range apart so if they come through the middle of the board I can try and tractor beam them onto or in front of a rock and then lay into them on the following round when they lose their actions. I've also used the TB to toss a lower PS ship on a rock to prevent them from firing that turn.

I was just having this conversation recently with Danath on the forums, who brought asymmetrical BroBots to the cut at a Regionals.

Broadly I would break down the major BroBot playstyle archetypes into 3 categories:

PS6 Crackshot / Glitterstim HLC / FCS (Phillip Booth - 2015 Worlds Top 4)

This is the most straightforward version, and the most popular. Massive alpha strike and jousting list, but it loses to superior positioning (Imperial Aces flown well) and it can still get out-jousted by triple scouts. The trick flying this vs higher PS aces is forcing them into a joust, which is your strength. It's the only list that can reliably out-dice Palpatine Aces when it gets arc.

PS8 HLC / FCS / ID @ 98 points (me - 2015 Worlds #20)

This build is all about moving after your opponent. Since you are moving last against almost everything at PS8 or below, you need to split up your Bots and force the opponent to commit to one of them. Once they commit, you have the positional advantage. Of the three archetypes, this requires the most thought put into asteroid placement and deployment strategies. That's also probably why its the least popular. Of the three archetypes, this version is the weakest against Triple Scouts, and weakest vs PS9+. Against PS7-8, however, this is easily the strongest list when played to its strengths.

PS6 Asymetrical PtL / Sensors (Jesper Hills - 2015 Worlds #22)

Bots 101: bots need arc. Self-bumping is a great way to keep those arcs pointed where you want them. This is true for any Bot build, but PtL / Advanced sensors really makes this shine. There's also the obvious advanced sensors boost + segnors loop / K-turn shenanigans. However it's still positionally weak vs Aces and doesn't have the GlitterCrack crutch to bail it out of a tight spot. I honestly would like to see more tape of Jesper play.

For what it's worth, while playing the PS8 BroBots myself, I have never lost a match vs other BroBots of any kind, or vs Dash + anything.

I was just having this conversation recently with Danath on the forums, who brought asymmetrical BroBots to the cut at a Regionals.

Broadly I would break down the major BroBot playstyle archetypes into 3 categories:

PS6 Crackshot / Glitterstim HLC / FCS (Phillip Booth - 2015 Worlds Top 4)

This is the most straightforward version, and the most popular. Massive alpha strike and jousting list, but it loses to superior positioning (Imperial Aces flown well) and it can still get out-jousted by triple scouts. The trick flying this vs higher PS aces is forcing them into a joust, which is your strength. It's the only list that can reliably out-dice Palpatine Aces when it gets arc.

PS8 HLC / FCS / ID @ 98 points (me - 2015 Worlds #20)

This build is all about moving after your opponent. Since you are moving last against almost everything at PS8 or below, you need to split up your Bots and force the opponent to commit to one of them. Once they commit, you have the positional advantage. Of the three archetypes, this requires the most thought put into asteroid placement and deployment strategies. That's also probably why its the least popular. Of the three archetypes, this version is the weakest against Triple Scouts, and weakest vs PS9+. Against PS7-8, however, this is easily the strongest list when played to its strengths.

PS6 Asymetrical PtL / Sensors (Jesper Hills - 2015 Worlds #22)

Bots 101: bots need arc. Self-bumping is a great way to keep those arcs pointed where you want them. This is true for any Bot build, but PtL / Advanced sensors really makes this shine. There's also the obvious advanced sensors boost + segnors loop / K-turn shenanigans. However it's still positionally weak vs Aces and doesn't have the GlitterCrack crutch to bail it out of a tight spot. I honestly would like to see more tape of Jesper play.

For what it's worth, while playing the PS8 BroBots myself, I have never lost a match vs other BroBots of any kind, or vs Dash + anything.

I'm a big proponent of Mindlink. A cheaper version of advanced sensors that still allows for the stupid good HLC FCS wombo combo. 2 points leftover for Feedback Array.

I recently split the difference with a fully hybrid list with B crackshot, FCS, HLC, AT and C Predator, AS, HLC, AT and a tractor beam for fun. This gives you the crackshot to break stealthed soontir but a predator/AS for boost shennanigans and to hit low PS blockers and both have HLC to hammer aces. Going to give this a run for a while see how I like it.

So I have a new BroBots list I wanted to try.

IG-88B-

Lone Wolf

Mangler Cannon

Title

SJ

Glitterstim

AT

IG-88C-

Predator

HLC

Title

FCS

AT

I still haven't come up with a good name though?

Kind of reminds me of hothie's old Yin and Yang BroBots.

Not being able to token up effectively has been an issue so I'm switching to PTL on both. Looking around that seems to be the preferred Bot build now but what I'm seeing is that B tends to have Mangler while C gets the HLC. High profile example being Jesper hills list here in the UK. I had gone the other way round so that when I go down to 1 ship (not "if" as I'm definitely having some teething problems hehe), if that 1 is C he isn't losing the Canon when boosting into range 1.

So my first question. What is the thinking behind B having Mangler and not C?

It was about target priority and greater utilisation when losing. Putting the HLC on IG-88B means putting all of my eggs into one basket. When B goes down, I've still got a capable 4-dice weapon left. When C goes down, I've got a double-tapping 3-dice weapon left. It means that both of my ships could operate as a credible threat if it has to fly solo.

It also means that if the obvious first target, IG-88B, is destroyed first then my opponent only gains 48 MOV (or 24 MOV for half-destroyed) rather than, say, 50+. Small margin, yes, but it's made a difference several times. If you have an opponent flying a 49pt Corran, for example, you can make assumptions on what his target priority will be and use that to your advantage.

Is it that B is already the prime target due to ability so putting the heavier firepower on C just makes target prioritisation even easier?

Next up the meta threats. Main lists out there seem to be;

Crackswarms. These are either Black squadron Ties with Howl support or some academies mixed in for a 7 ship swarm or the A wings.

Imp aces both Palp and not. I'm going to lump in the likes of Palp- 2 Ace- Omega and the like in here for ease though of course the different lists can be quite different in practice.

U-Boat heavy lists. Either 3 or 2 with a party bus or Zuckus in support.

So how do we approach these?

How I approach these:

Crackswarm: I like to setup diagonally opposite, then swing to joust it, preferably from an angle. Bait and switch targets to force the swarm to split fire - that's how you survive the initial engagement. Don't be afraid to sacrifice shots in order to secure a decent escape angle next turn.

Imperial Aces: Probably your most difficult matchup. But perfectly doable if you play smart. You need to play the long game. Don't commit early. Stay defensive, stay evasive. Wait for your opponent to commit to angles and try to make those angles work for you. When an opportunity presents itself, block with one IG-88 and punish with the other.

Uboats: Joust them. PTL and Advanced Sensors means you're able to control range much better. If you don't end up at Range 1 with a Focus/Evade stack every single engagement, you're doing it wrong. One IG-88 can happily tank a single torpedo at Range 3 no problem. Don't get shot by more than one torpedo on any given turn, and you're laughing.

PS6 Asymetrical PtL / Sensors (Jesper Hills - 2015 Worlds #22)

Bots 101: bots need arc. Self-bumping is a great way to keep those arcs pointed where you want them. This is true for any Bot build, but PtL / Advanced sensors really makes this shine. There's also the obvious advanced sensors boost + segnors loop / K-turn shenanigans. However it's still positionally weak vs Aces and doesn't have the GlitterCrack crutch to bail it out of a tight spot. I honestly would like to see more tape of Jesper play.

If anything, Advanced Sensors means you're positionally stronger against aces. Just because you can't move at higher PS doesn't mean you can't use positioning to your advantage. Key strength with this build is being able to effectively block while still maintaining a high level of defence. That's how you win it. People talk about the double HLC builds being better for this matchup but honestly, double HLC is a crutch. You don't need it. However, I've lately been flying the list at 100pts (adding a 1pt Tractor Beam to IG-88C) in order to leverage more area denial against the ace matchup. Works quite well.

If anyone is interested, here's a battle report of my Double IGs winning the London Regionals:

http://www.186th.org/news/great-shot-kid-that-was-one-in-a-million-london-regionals-2016