My biggest problem with them was that they were blatantly rpped off from the galactic antibodies in Gunbuster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5XaLsSfoWg I couldnt find the specific clips but pretty much all of the Vong vessels show up in the show.

I wish I could enjoy an anime without:

A cast entirely composed of annoying 11 year old girls. An anime about tank commanders? Let's make all of the characters 11 year old girls.

Giant humanoid mech suits. I can tolerate the ones in Blue Gender but that's it.

Magical martial arts. Dragon ball Z, Naruto, etc. These are all so video-gamey.

Fantasy themes. I just hate fantasy in general.

Awful comedy.

There is Ghost in the Shell, Elfen Lied, Blue Gender, and Death Note. These are the animes that I like, and even they have tinges of this.

I mean, the only real purpose of the Vong was "We beat Jedi, the Force sucks against us," and the Force plays no part whatsoever in this game.

Oh, and they're a pathetic attempt to make the original Empire vs. Rebellion more "shades of grey" than black and white (or good and evil) by casting Sheev Palpatine as a "Dark Hero" who started TWO galactic wars, destroyed an ancient religion, and enslaved multiple races because it was what he had to do to fight off the Vong when they invaded in the future.

Do you realize how much that ruins everything that underlies Star Wars, to retcon that Palpatine wasn't evil, just a guy doin' bad things for the greater good?

There were terrorist cells fighting against a united Galaxy (nations) and for some reason the elected leader of that empire is the bad guy? Terrorists attacking a legitimate government and organized military and they get labeled "heroes" or "good guys"?!?!?

If we're talking politics I'm sure he had a lower approval rating but "evil"?!? C'mon. Modern nations enslave other nations all the time as the price of doing business. They wipe out antiquated customs and religions as thier superior culture is just that much better than those back world (water) planets (nations).

Don't believe the rebel propaganda films and books. They just want you to defect and they will radicalize you to thier cause. You'll find yourself in the middle of nowhere and throwing your life away to overthrow "the great evil".

My biggest problem with them was that they were blatantly rpped off from the galactic antibodies in Gunbuster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5XaLsSfoWg I couldnt find the specific clips but pretty much all of the Vong vessels show up in the show.

I wish I could enjoy an anime without:

A cast entirely composed of annoying 11 year old girls. An anime about tank commanders? Let's make all of the characters 11 year old girls.

Giant humanoid mech suits. I can tolerate the ones in Blue Gender but that's it.

Magical martial arts. Dragon ball Z, Naruto, etc. These are all so video-gamey.

Fantasy themes. I just hate fantasy in general.

Awful comedy.

There is Ghost in the Shell, Elfen Lied, Blue Gender, and Death Note. These are the animes that I like, and even they have tinges of this.

There's a great mini series of Gundam series: Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS. No super annoying man cast and it's super impressive in the series if they destroyed an enemy Gundam because they are more or less Tanks and are hard to take down. Highly recommend it.

no IMHO the Vong are wrong..... they ruined the old eu it just wasn't star wars

The vong didn't ruin the EU. The EU, now legends, was already diseased. The vong were a symptom. Legends was rampant with stories about super powerful force user characters who would rush in and save the day. There was no threat to Luke and company.

The vong were created to be a threat to these characters. They were poorly executed, I agree. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the whole pain worshiping thing was only supposed to be something that the first faction of vong encountered did. The writers following the first book decided to apply this trait to every single vong.

I mean... yes, sort of. The Jedi, as written, present a problem: they're incredibly powerful wizard-knights from

space. It's hard to write stories involving physical conflict when your heroes are clairvoyants with laser swords.

So having built the Jedi up into a force (heh) that chokes off a lot of narrative options, the people responsible for the direction of the EU decided to go the least imaginative route: a race of aliens who are specifically immune to the Jedi. Oh, and let's throw in some body-horror, too--that will make them super-icky!

The Vong are a solution to a problem, sure, but that doesn't make them a good solution. It's like painting yourself into a corner and then deciding to handle it by sliding face-first across the wet floor. Neither decision is admirable, y'know?

My biggest problem with them was that they were blatantly rpped off from the galactic antibodies in Gunbuster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5XaLsSfoWg I couldnt find the specific clips but pretty much all of the Vong vessels show up in the show.

I wish I could enjoy an anime without:

A cast entirely composed of annoying 11 year old girls. An anime about tank commanders? Let's make all of the characters 11 year old girls.

Giant humanoid mech suits. I can tolerate the ones in Blue Gender but that's it.

Magical martial arts. Dragon ball Z, Naruto, etc. These are all so video-gamey.

Fantasy themes. I just hate fantasy in general.

Awful comedy.

There is Ghost in the Shell, Elfen Lied, Blue Gender, and Death Note. These are the animes that I like, and even they have tinges of this.

There's a great mini series of Gundam series: Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS. No super annoying man cast and it's super impressive in the series if they destroyed an enemy Gundam because they are more or less Tanks and are hard to take down. Highly recommend it.

It's essentially Gundam: Vietnam

I read the title as 'I want the Dong.'

That is all.

Y'know, much as I say, "What IS the Star Wars feel, even..?"

It sure ain't a bunch of force-invulnerable fishmeat starship flyin extragalactic sushimen.

Okay, what's the point of the Vong?

To kill in the name of their false Gods.

I mean, the only real purpose of the Vong was "We beat Jedi, the Force sucks against us,"

They reveled later that Darkside / Sith powers work on them, and that Lightside powers can be made to kill them, like Green Lightning / Jade Judgement, something named like that. Also the leader of their race was controlling them with the Force.

and the Force plays no part whatsoever in this game.

Well Vader force chokes people when hes a crew member...

Oh, and they're a pathetic attempt to make the original Empire vs. Rebellion more "shades of grey" than black and white (or good and evil) by casting Sheev Palpatine as a "Dark Hero" who started TWO galactic wars, destroyed an ancient religion, and enslaved multiple races because it was what he had to do to fight off the Vong when they invaded in the future.

The Empire and Rebellion have always been in the gray area, its the people leading them and the Jedi / Sith that where defined as being White and Black / Good and Evil. Even if you made the story arcs nonexistent involving the Vong you would see this in the stories.

Sidious did things that were evil for the Good of his Empire, and Good did come out of his Empire, good people came about because of his Empire. He also didn't do all the things you mentioned just for dealing with the Vong. Some maybe instances where hes killing two birds with one stone.

Do you realize how much that ruins everything that underlies Star Wars, to retcon that Palpatine wasn't evil, just a guy doin' bad things for the greater good?

Only if that point where true, are you getting these points of view from an in-universe source? I do recall a force using faction that believed no mater how evil someone was they would inevitably do good. They believed Sidious was a hero because he inevitably caused good things to happen.

The Vong are also hack writing at its worst, Dragonball Z-esque power-upping: "Well, X lost to Y so there's no more tension there, but Z is stronger than both, so X and Y must combine forces to beat them, yay!"

This is no different than the Neutrals joining forces with the Rebs to fight off the Empire. I think its a bit unfair to call it hack writing for using the style of story telling, your saying they used, which I will point out isn't unique to DBZ, the force was always all powerful. If it weren't Yoda would be telling Luke about what his limits are with the force, the only limit he told Luke about the force was basically his own belief in what he could and couldn't do.

Its not my fav story arc but I think most the people that hate it left it to early before they could see everything that happened in the story.

Okay, what's the point of the Vong?

To kill in the name of their false Gods.

I mean, the only real purpose of the Vong was "We beat Jedi, the Force sucks against us,"

They reveled later that Darkside / Sith powers work on them, and that Lightside powers can be made to kill them, like Green Lightning / Jade Judgement, something named like that. Also the leader of their race was controlling them with the Force.

and the Force plays no part whatsoever in this game.

Well Vader force chokes people when hes a crew member...

Oh, and they're a pathetic attempt to make the original Empire vs. Rebellion more "shades of grey" than black and white (or good and evil) by casting Sheev Palpatine as a "Dark Hero" who started TWO galactic wars, destroyed an ancient religion, and enslaved multiple races because it was what he had to do to fight off the Vong when they invaded in the future.

The Empire and Rebellion have always been in the gray area, its the people leading them and the Jedi / Sith that where defined as being White and Black / Good and Evil. Even if you made the story arcs nonexistent involving the Vong you would see this in the stories.

Sidious did things that were evil for the Good of his Empire, and Good did come out of his Empire, good people came about because of his Empire. He also didn't do all the things you mentioned just for dealing with the Vong. Some maybe instances where hes killing two birds with one stone.

Do you realize how much that ruins everything that underlies Star Wars, to retcon that Palpatine wasn't evil, just a guy doin' bad things for the greater good?

Only if that point where true, are you getting these points of view from an in-universe source? I do recall a force using faction that believed no mater how evil someone was they would inevitably do good. They believed Sidious was a hero because he inevitably caused good things to happen.

The Vong are also hack writing at its worst, Dragonball Z-esque power-upping: "Well, X lost to Y so there's no more tension there, but Z is stronger than both, so X and Y must combine forces to beat them, yay!"

This is no different than the Neutrals joining forces with the Rebs to fight off the Empire. I think its a bit unfair to call it hack writing for using the style of story telling, your saying they used, which I will point out isn't unique to DBZ, the force was always all powerful. If it weren't Yoda would be telling Luke about what his limits are with the force, the only limit he told Luke about the force was basically his own belief in what he could and couldn't do.

Its not my fav story arc but I think most the people that hate it left it to early before they could see everything that happened in the story.

If by too early you mean when it became apparent that the Vong sucked and everything in there was an epic asspull, then yes.

Vong apologists are like Twilight fans. They wouldn't know good literature if it hit them in the face.

JADE JUDGEMENT.

That's as bad as SPEAR OF MIDNIGHT BLACK!

No. No Vong. We don't need a hybrid Tyranid-Skorne group of genetics manipulating pain freaks. They were a bad idea in the old EU, and would offer nothing in X-wing.

i dont

There is Ghost in the Shell, Elfen Lied, Blue Gender, and Death Note. These are the animes that I like, and even they have tinges of this.

So I'm not sure why I'm surprised that PGS hates most anime for highly stereotyped reasons (and is not able to appreciate another culture's humor), but somehow - I am.

Though 11 year old girls being EVERYTHING AND EVERYWHERE does annoy me too. In some contexts, it's fine, but Buddha H. Christ, there's an anime this season where (somehow) airplanes were never invented and little girls are in the Coast Guard crewing 60-year old ships. It's such a blatant moe cash-in and a waste of an otherwise decent elseworlds concept.

That said, you might look at Black Lagoon (a salaryman is abducted by a group of violent mercenaries and is drawn into their lives) and the Gate: The JSDF Fought There manga (a fantasy army invades downtown Tokyo and is promptly slaughtered because Apaches > wyverns and M-16s > orcs, and the JSDF goes through the gate to establish a defensive beachhead and is trying very hard NOT to conquer the other side while also dealing with the political implications of having access to a world's worth of resources.)

Don't believe the rebel propaganda films and books. They just want you to defect and they will radicalize you to thier cause. You'll find yourself in the middle of nowhere and throwing your life away to overthrow "the great evil".

In-universe depictions of how the Empire ain't evil is cute and all, but I'm not talking in-universe but in real life. Looking at it as a story, the Empire is evil, Palpatine is the Big Bad Evil Guy, Vader is the Right-Hand Man, and the Rebellion are noble. Don't, uh, get those confused, or else someone might try applying well-known psychiatric techniques.

They revealed later that Darkside / Sith powers work on them, and that Lightside powers can be made to kill them, like Green Lightning / Jade Judgement, something named like that. Also the leader of their race was controlling them with the Force.

Actually, (according to the authors) they were only supposed to be immune to SENSING from the Force, with the standard telekinesis still working just fine - but individual authors kept stepping over their mandate, and we got "I CANNOT BE TOUCHED BY YOUR PUNY FORCE POWERZZ!"

The Empire and Rebellion have always been in the gray area, its the people leading them and the Jedi / Sith that where defined as being White and Black / Good and Evil. Even if you made the story arcs nonexistent involving the Vong you would see this in the stories.

Sidious did things that were evil for the Good of his Empire, and Good did come out of his Empire, good people came about because of his Empire. He also didn't do all the things you mentioned just for dealing with the Vong. Some maybe instances where hes killing two birds with one stone.

The Empire/Rebellion were never grey areas. It has always been clear that one is good (treating all life forms equally, opposing slavery/exploitation, etc), and one is evil. Good people working for evil causes does not magically turn them good - but it does make for a good story, especially when they realize their mistakes and turn away.

Only if that point where true, are you getting these points of view from an in-universe source? I do recall a force using faction that believed no mater how evil someone was they would inevitably do good. They believed Sidious was a hero because he inevitably caused good things to happen.

In-universe and in real life are two different things. Writers have choices to make when writing, and adding moral grey to a conflict like the Rebellion by saying, "Ooh, the evil Emperor wasn't REALLY evil" is about the cheapest cop-out available. It's the sort of thing you expect in bad fanfiction, shortly followed by a phrase like, "Palpatine ran one withered hand down Luke's cheek and softly said, 'I'm not so bad, am I? Age matters not, isn't that what your old master said?'"

This is no different than the Neutrals joining forces with the Rebs to fight off the Empire. I think its a bit unfair to call it hack writing for using the style of story telling, your saying they used, which I will point out isn't unique to DBZ, the force was always all powerful. If it weren't Yoda would be telling Luke about what his limits are with the force, the only limit he told Luke about the force was basically his own belief in what he could and couldn't do.

Its not my fav story arc but I think most the people that hate it left it to early before they could see everything that happened in the story.

It was a trainwreck from start to end. Constrained by Lucas's meddling (He saith: You can't kill Luke, you can't kill Jacen, you can't have the bad guys be a group of evil Force-users who aren't the Sith); shallowly conceived by authors who are cheap pulp writers (as much as I love Stackpole's Battletech and some of Salvatore's Forgotten Realms books, they're not deep creatives); and then terribly executed by a string of authors who didn't read the full mandate of what the Vong were actually capable of, and making them stronger and stronger and STRONGER.

There are moments in there which ARE strong, but the overall arc is just... bad. I freely admit that I will watch the Phantom Menace before I pick up another Vong arc book. (though I'll probably cheat by applying the Rifftrax).

I'd advise against GATE though. While the concept is interesting...the execution is so highly japanese nationalist that it borders on NIHON KAIGUN! BANZAI! levels of imperialist Japan.

As in a bunch of JSDF part-timers handily beat US, Russian, and Chinese special operations teams....AT THE SAME TIME. Because Japan Stronk!

It also quickly turns into a harem show.

If by too early you mean when it became apparent that the Vong sucked and everything in there was an epic asspull, then yes.

Vong apologists are like Twilight fans. They wouldn't know good literature if it hit them in the face.

Ascribing good literature to the EU is a dangerous path to go down. I enjoyed the NJO. That is the basic goal of Star Wars media, to entertain.

I haven't read any of the old EU books. Are any of them good or do people only read them because they're Star Whores?

I haven't read any of the old EU books. Are any of them good or do people only read them because they're Star Whores?

Most people I know love the Thrawn Trilogy.

Thrawn trilogy's good.

Almost everything else can bite a fat one.

Problem with EU stuff... For a lot of it it didn't have an adult audience in mind and it is not at all trying to be literature. It is the literary equivalent of junk food. It does nothing for your health but sometimes you really don't care. If you want Star Wars meets Top Gun I always liked Rogue Squadron. The Revan stories were enjoyable for me too. It all depends though, and again what I read I read in grade school... That was a while ago now, and my palette was far less refined.

The X-wing stories are fun.

Mace windu's heart of darkness is a good time

Thrawn Trilogy and X-wing series were the best.

Thrawn Trilogy and X-wing series were the best.

Agreed.

The Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn is good if you want something closer to the main movies. They capture the feeling of the films quite well, and retain the same main characters.

The X-Wing series is great if you want to get a slightly different view of the galaxy. Luke, Han, and the other main characters make appearances, but they take a back seat to the likes of Wedge Antilles, Corran Horn, and Lieutenant Kettch Wes Janson.

True story:

When I went to see The Force Awakens, I kept looking for Wedge Antilles to show up (or at least get mentioned). When he wasn't, I was truly shocked at the exclusion of such a main character!

...until I remembered that outside of the X-Wing series he's a secondary character, and in the strict canon he's a fairly minor character. XD

Thrawn Trilogy and X-wing series were the best.

Agreed.

The Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn is good if you want something closer to the main movies. They capture the feeling of the films quite well, and retain the same main characters.

The X-Wing series is great if you want to get a slightly different view of the galaxy. Luke, Han, and the other main characters make appearances, but they take a back seat to the likes of Wedge Antilles, Corran Horn, and Lieutenant Kettch Wes Janson.

True story:

When I went to see The Force Awakens, I kept looking for Wedge Antilles to show up (or at least get mentioned). When he wasn't, I was truly shocked at the exclusion of such a main character!

...until I remembered that outside of the X-Wing series he's a secondary character, and in the strict canon he's a fairly minor character. XD

Thrawn Trilogy and X-wing series were the best.

Agreed.

The Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn is good if you want something closer to the main movies. They capture the feeling of the films quite well, and retain the same main characters.

The X-Wing series is great if you want to get a slightly different view of the galaxy. Luke, Han, and the other main characters make appearances, but they take a back seat to the likes of Wedge Antilles, Corran Horn, and Lieutenant Kettch Wes Janson.

True story:

When I went to see The Force Awakens, I kept looking for Wedge Antilles to show up (or at least get mentioned). When he wasn't, I was truly shocked at the exclusion of such a main character!

...until I remembered that outside of the X-Wing series he's a secondary character, and in the strict canon he's a fairly minor character. XD

The actor also declined a cameo.

Yeah, but they COULD have kidnapped him and forced him to act if they'd really wanted to. I guess no one's really committed to the story anymore.