Putting 1 ship and 3 squadrons into space can loose up to 3 deployments. That is huge. I believe that Regional Data shows winning list have the highest amount of deployments. Having an objective take away from the important deloyment sub game seems pretty unfair to the second player, especially considering that Hyperspace requires good play to set up punishment due to being the second player.

I thought it chould change to "Deploy up to 1 Small-Medium ship and 3 squadrons into Hyperspace" rather than "Set Aside".

I think without this change Hyperspace will always be a limited objective. The balance comes from loosing at least 1 ship activation anyway.

Thoughts?

It only has to take 1 away. Does not have to be any more than that.

Its one of those objectives that has the power to completely and utterly swing things...

Even losing a deployment, it hsa the potential to be very powerful... BUT, it also doesn't award any bonus points.

I think its bonus and drawbacks are well balanced in comparison to the other objectives.

Totally up to you to maximise the potential of having it in your objective choices versus the other ones.

I think taking Regional Winners = Most Deployments is a gross simplification of the matter... We'd be seeing more Ackbar Corvettes if that were the case.

Deployments are key, but hyperspace deployments > normal deployments.

It's not having *more* deployments, but deploying well that is most important, I went 8-1 over 2 store champs and a regional (4th at regional but 3-0) with 3 ships and zero squadrons. if you have more ships you can still deploy badly. It's less about more ships and more about smaller ships can better recover from marginally bad deployments due to speed and maneuverability.

Sure that's how most people play it out, 1 useful ship set aside. But if people feel as if they can't play the three squadrons (and noone i have seen does) this points to bad design.

Man, if my opponent picks Hyperspace assault, I'm in heaven...

Yavaris with a couple of B-Wings... Even if I can't activate immediately, I've got them in the backline. Or at least completely advanced - potentially having a small squadron of 3 B-Wings 2/3rds of the way across the table... That potential is undenyable.

You do have to be activitely threatening another ship the turn you come out of Hyperspace, to make the decision hard on wether they move their hyperspace target, or get away....

As a Note:


I am still waiting on confirmation from FFG, on wether you are allowed to *JUST* Put 3 Squadrons into Hyperspace, if your fleet consists otherwise only of LARGE Ships.....

Because that would make a MAJOR change for me on how often I take it!

Man, if my opponent picks Hyperspace assault, I'm in heaven...

Yavaris with a couple of B-Wings... Even if I can't activate immediately, I've got them in the backline. Or at least completely advanced - potentially having a small squadron of 3 B-Wings 2/3rds of the way across the table... That potential is undenyable.

Until thety have Slicer Tools to counter your placement and make that squadron command a engineering.

Wave 3 is going to change everything! I can't wait

Sure. But that's Wave 3.

I'm talking about now.

Now you can't do that.

But soon, sure. I won't be taking Hyperspace anymore because I'm completely invested in Fire Lanes.

I got to play it twice today as Player 1, so I'm much more confident.

Putting 1 ship and 3 squadrons into space can loose up to 3 deployments. That is huge. I believe that Regional Data shows winning list have the highest amount of deployments. Having an objective take away from the important deloyment sub game seems pretty unfair to the second player, especially considering that Hyperspace requires good play to set up punishment due to being the second player.

I thought it chould change to "Deploy up to 1 Small-Medium ship and 3 squadrons into Hyperspace" rather than "Set Aside".

I think without this change Hyperspace will always be a limited objective. The balance comes from loosing at least 1 ship activation anyway.

Thoughts?

Yes you lose deployments, you gain the ability to have a ship of your choosing appear behind your enemys fleet, which I feel more than outweighs any negative from a lost deployment.

I can't even think how you see this as some sort of overall disadvantage, Imperial ships as a general rule of thumb have a monster front arc, so so side arcs, and poor rear arcs, and most of the larger ships cannot move well enough to get turned around to deal with a threat flanking/behind them. So you get to appear in their weakest arcs, haven't had to run the gauntlet of getting past the strongest arcs, and can if placed well harass with impunity. And this is a bad thing?

Instead you think keeping the deployments and getting to hyperspace in is balanced?

I played against a Rebel Ackbar fleet....he put Ackbar into Hyperspace, and he appeared behind my ISD/VSD and I could never get enough dice on his AFMKII to even remotely threaten Ackbars life, he was safe for the rest of the game. Hyperspace assault can be a monstrously powerful objective.

Another consideration to add:

If you are deploying, rather than out of the game, would that mean you could load up with Garm Tokens for Turn One? If your Admiral was Hyperspacing, would he still be "in the game" and thus you could use his rules?

We're getting into the realm of upgrade cards that are going to have an effect at deployment.... With that in mind, we'd need to clarify - under the pretense that you don't lose your deployment because you deploy to hyperspace - wether or not you are "in the game" and indeed, have deployed...

Because if I "deploy" to hyperspace, and then appear next to the Token... I'm not Deploying next to the Hyperspace token... So even if there is a Gravity Well Token on top of the Hyperspace Token, I'm not effected by it...

That seems very odd.

Its simply more straightforward to say you don't deploy until you're placed on the table...

Interdictors can have fun with ships in Hyperspace, after all...

As it stands, how balanced is Hyperspace Assault? Is it.. good? Is it worth it as 2nd palyer, or is it a trap that a 1st player loves.

Next, how often is this one even played? I've literally played 0 competitive level games with it. No one picks it.

As it stands, how balanced is Hyperspace Assault? Is it.. good? Is it worth it as 2nd palyer, or is it a trap that a 1st player loves.

Next, how often is this one even played? I've literally played 0 competitive level games with it. No one picks it.

Depends on your list. Each objective has its place but you as the player needs to have a plan on how to make it work and the experience to do so.

It's a high level skill tester. I imagine most people don't pick it because at that point in the game (in a tournament) you have little to gauge the skill level of your opponent other than they are sitting in a tourney with so many points. It greatly ups the testing permutations and relatively subtle position difference of the tokens can have great effect. All this leads to great uncertainty, a band of tourney players of any game.

Take a 5 activation Reiken list vs Clonisher. The Clonisher player goes first and selects Hyperspace Assault. The assault tokens are placed first, meaning it's highly likely Demolisher gets placed last which is how they want it. However, if the Reiken player knows their stuff, they should know the likely paths for a Demolisher run and where on the board it should happen. Three tokens covers quite the space. Basically, the ship should jump in the turn Demolisher wants to do its run. This forces Demolisher to either move first to avoid the attack in the rear, but then it loses the triple tap. The target ships get to fire after it moves (and engineer) hopefully killing it or severely negating it's run. Or the Demolisher player waits for the Demolisher run hoping the hyperspace ship can't finish or cripple the Demolisher sufficiently. However the Demolisher player doesn't have to run into the trap. Instead speeds in from a different angle or speed and hopefully gets the hyper player to screw up their jump or timing.

In some ways the hyperspace jump is the absolute in Final deployment advantage deploying even after the game has started. As for slicer tools, it doesn't negate Yavaris, Yavaris simply has to bring Wing Commander, an upgrade it will want regardless of hyperspace.

Or Hyper in Yavaris and three B-Wings. . .yeesh. Twelve blue Bomber dice, plus Yavaris' red dice, right in the pooper.

And Hyperspace Assault can also be a great deterrent. If I'm facing a CR90 swarm and my choices are Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault and Superior Positions. . .not sure which one I would pick. Or if you have that Yavaris setup, I'm pretty sure I'm not picking Hyperspace Assault. So you either force your opponent into taking a different objective that you feel you have a better chance with, or they take one that doesn't grant you bonus points, sure, but you also get a huge advantage.

I love hyperspace assault nothing quite like dropping a loaded mc30 behind and along side enemy ships, or a salvation to follow them and put (generally) 5 damage a round in to their back.

I generally like this objective especially as player one. O? You think you've got a ship of yours into my rear. No, you have a ship all by itself surrounded by greater numbers. Let me defeat that small part of your fleet first before moving on to devote the full weight of my fleet against what remains....

So I've had good success with this mission against rebels, especially if they have MC80s. Oh cool, I am now in front of your expensive ship with my MC30 and I happen to have both side arcs on your front arc! YAY!

Other than that scenario (also works on assault frigates, but you have to put them pretty perfectly to pin them in, or have another ship to help) it is a hard mission for 2nd player to squeeze a worthy benefit from. Yavaris and B-Wings is nice, but you better be threatening two ships with it, cause one will for sure get out of double tap range, and that's hard to do against someone who knows Yavaris is coming in. I think a Vic II or an AFMKII or a Neb make awesome Hyperspace Assault candidates. They can start in black range behind somthing and still get shots after it moves away.

My problem is Contested and Fire Lanes are much better "all comer" missions.

Salvation and Insidious love hyperspace. You havent lived till youve dropped salv in behind demolisher

I generally like this objective especially as player one. O? You think you've got a ship of yours into my rear. No, you have a ship all by itself surrounded by greater numbers. Let me defeat that small part of your fleet first before moving on to devote the full weight of my fleet against what remains....

This indicates an inexperienced opponent who doesn't know how to play the objective, not a bad objective.

I generally like this objective especially as player one. O? You think you've got a ship of yours into my rear. No, you have a ship all by itself surrounded by greater numbers. Let me defeat that small part of your fleet first before moving on to devote the full weight of my fleet against what remains....

This indicates an inexperienced opponent who doesn't know how to play the objective, not a bad objective.

And it also forced you to change your strategy. Are you keeping ships off of your main line to counter an incoming hyperspace ship? Now you've reduced whatever is facing the remainder of their fleet for an encounter that hasn't even happened yet. If keeping one ship in reserve forces you to alter your deployment significantly, that might be a win anyway. You can only keep three tokens in primary arcs for so long before the ships are circling or have dropped to speed zero. I don't have to bring my ship in until Turn Six. Are you really going to spread your fleet out to cover all three tokens, which I can move, for the entire game? What is going to battle the rest of my fleet?

I generally like this objective especially as player one. O? You think you've got a ship of yours into my rear. No, you have a ship all by itself surrounded by greater numbers. Let me defeat that small part of your fleet first before moving on to devote the full weight of my fleet against what remains....

This indicates an inexperienced opponent who doesn't know how to play the objective, not a bad objective.

And it also forced you to change your strategy. Are you keeping ships off of your main line to counter an incoming hyperspace ship? Now you've reduced whatever is facing the remainder of their fleet for an encounter that hasn't even happened yet. If keeping one ship in reserve forces you to alter your deployment significantly, that might be a win anyway. You can only keep three tokens in primary arcs for so long before the ships are circling or have dropped to speed zero. I don't have to bring my ship in until Turn Six. Are you really going to spread your fleet out to cover all three tokens, which I can move, for the entire game? What is going to battle the rest of my fleet?

That's the fun part of this objective. If they wait till turn 6, then they've been playing without a portion of their fleet for most of the game. Most people don't like to fight with one hand behind their back.

Conversely as player 1, you're playing against someone that is a ship down, you're not. O darn.

The first layer of the onion on this objective is people thinking they've got you because they're behind your "line".

Reacting to "just" that is just that. Reacting. You're playing to the strength of your opponent when you do.

The deeper Zen is realizing they've split their forces which gives you an opportunities.

As it stands, how balanced is Hyperspace Assault? Is it.. good? Is it worth it as 2nd palyer, or is it a trap that a 1st player loves.

Next, how often is this one even played? I've literally played 0 competitive level games with it. No one picks it.

I offer HA frequently, and find it is chosen frequently.

I played 4 matches during the Galactic Civil War tournament (3 of my own and 1 as a sub), and all 4 opponents chose Hyperspace assault. Part of their reasoning may have been that I was running a Garm fleet, so it robs the incoming ship (Yavaris) of the chance to gain 2 free tokens, but I've found it is a popular pick even when I use a different Admiral.

It's good if you learn how to deploy well and ensure you always warp in with 2 target options rather than 1. My preference is to set up a V of tokens, with the bottom of the V being just outside my own deployment zone and the two tops of the V being about 5 in from the opponent's edge. The chance of something coming from the front or from behind seems to have much more of an impact on the opponent's nerves than just having 3 tokens behind them - and as it happens, my fleet was built with the idea of having Yavaris and 3 Bwings (or Nym) warp in right in front of the enemy's most deadly and expensive ship so that every gun and squadron in my fleet could hit it at once.

Here is an example of exactly that happening, complete with complimentary game-logs.

Game Over! And what a game it was.

A bold hyperspace assault by Yavaris took the imperials by surprise by warping into the front arc of the ISD, leading to all manner of carnage and a damage-spike sufficient to overcome the healing efforts of 3 Projection Experts.

Vlogs below, but here's a preview of the Yavaris' THIS IS SPARTA moment.

Naturally the Yavaris died very soon afterwards, but with an ISD and Gladiator destroyed and another limping out with 1 hull left after a YT2400 missed it, victory was to the Rebellion.

MVP: Nym for removing the braces from the ISD and 2 Gladiators. Nym + Yavaris + Torynn Farr = $profit$

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtzz9ymv5mrmkz5/GWC_Matt-ShadowlordvsSkyCake.vlog?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s9cvxokmtlwqcpy/GWC_Matt-ShadowlordvsSkyCake%202.vlog?dl=0

Is it a competitive objective? It's not as clear cut as some others, because it has no bonus points and I've seen it hurt player 2 more than player 1 before. However, I won all 4 tournament games where it was picked, and AFAIK have won all local games where an opponent has picked it (it's easier to win with it on a conventional table-top because people are sloppier with their moves and target arcs than on Vassal - me included lol).

It takes practice to get right but is definitely one of my favourites

Thanks that was a realyl insightful opinion. Any other offers?

That's the fun part of this objective. If they wait till turn 6, then they've been playing without a portion of their fleet for most of the game. Most people don't like to fight with one hand behind their back.

Conversely as player 1, you're playing against someone that is a ship down, you're not. O darn.

The first layer of the onion on this objective is people thinking they've got you because they're behind your "line".

Reacting to "just" that is just that. Reacting. You're playing to the strength of your opponent when you do.

The deeper Zen is realizing they've split their forces which gives you an opportunities.

You're kind of contradicting your earlier post, here. You said earlier that:

How can you have a ship "surrounded by greater numbers" if you're ignoring the incoming ship to engage the rest of the enemy fleet? There's not a ship in the game that can deal out serious damage from its rear arc. The best rear arcs are 2 Red, 1 Blue, which is not exactly high-damage material. And bear in mind that the ship can emerge any time between Turn Two or Turn Six. So if you're ignoring the hyperspace ship and barreling forward, expect it to emerge Turn Two and start throwing dice for five turns into rear arcs. If you hold back some ships, then your opponent can hold that hyperspace ship in reserve as long as necessary, because those ships are effectively out of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. You either ignore the hyperspace assault threat and have it harass your fleet the entire game, or hold something back to counter the incoming ship and take part of your force out of the fight. And a savvy opponent will only offer up Hyperspace Assault if they have a ship that can capitalize on it: Insidious, Salvation, Yavaris with Bombers, even a regular VSD or Gunnery Teams Ackbar Assault Frigate. I'm not saying that's been your experience with Hyperspace Assault, I'm just saying that a skilled player can get a lot out of something that seems innocuous.

Here's the thing: HA doesn't cost you any deployments. It gives you the absolute last word in deployments. You get a super-deployment (or up to 2 1/2 of them), with drastically relaxed restraints on timing and location.

It's up to you to build a list to maximally leverage that.

Maybe that means you're able to build a list with fewer deployments than you would normally want, because your red and blue objectives are just so awesome for you that nobody can help but pick HA, which means you'll never be out-deployed, and can concentrate a huge amount of threat and power into that one ship and up to three squadrons, which you can then place anywhere you want at any time you choose.