Or even Desslok.... **** my autocorrect to hell, I could spell so much better before they invented it

He's going to be known as 'Desktop' forever afterwards now.

Also, Mr Penguin seems to have a rating of 5 in the 'derail topic' skill...

I too had trouble getting it across to my players that this game is probably one of the least deadly you could possibly play.

BUT

In regards to death on double WT: I've been contemplating to rule death if you take more than double your WT in a single hit, as in, being blasted by a vehicle grade weapon.

If a tank shell dead on hits you there is not much going to be left afterwards. Sure, depending on the vehicle in question it's going to be difficult to hit a silhouette 1 target but not impossible.

This came to mind when my PCs on more than one occasion managed to get the Nemesis in front their YT-1300 turret laser... You can't really reasonably say that they are still alive when they eat 60 damage.

I'm still not sure wether or not to go ahead with this, but it seems reasonable. Although it can bring on PC death very quickly if you're unlucky wich kind of spits in the face of the rest of the damage mechanics.

It would also deter PCs to ever interact with vehicles on a personal scale, wich may make things less interesting overall.

60 damage is a decent saber swarm combo for an ataru master ;-)

And for sure a lot less than what Dengar or Anakin took and send them right to cyborg hospital.

The 'dead at double wound threshold' is just someone's house rule, and not a great one in my opinion. I personally rule that planetary scale weapons cannot hit lone individuals, only fortifications, ships, vehicles, buildings etc - unless the PC really is jumping up and down in front of a big gun, demanding they 'take their best shot'. In the films, a PC in that situation is usually just caught on the edge of the blast and knocked out.

While I do allow planetary weapons to target individuals, I also require it to make sense, and use narrative effects to apply that sanity.

Vehicles sensors, while all capable of isolating individuals, aren't designed and calibrated to do so passively by default except for vehicles built with that intent/concern and pilots using them for such.

Your average landspeeder sensors for example are rigged for detecting traffic, roads, and navigation. They'll still be able to detect people as part of a pedestrian/animal avoidance system, but they won't track every person in a 50 mile radius by default. Likewise a TIE Fighter is set up for other spacecraft and by extension heavy vehicles and buildings, and navigation. A light freighter is set up for other spacecraft and navigation. So on.

Only something like an AT-PT, designed for direct support of infantry units, will be rigged to automatically alert the pilot if it's sensors pick up something that resembles an armed humanoid. Even then, how sensitive that system is set for can be adjusted by the pilot with some mission and terrain types needing and permitting that sensitivity more than others.

So, if there's a TIE Fighter cruising around while the players are on foot, unless it has a good reason to be actively searching for the party, or the party is doing something that would be highly likely to trip the TIE's sensors, the TIE is going to just keep on flying. Even if the TIE does detect them, unless it has reason to attack it's more likely to just do a closer inspection to determine if the player are indeed a threat and not just a herd of runyips, and then report their position and activities to HQ.

Of course if the Players get in a tangle with some Stormtroopers, and one trooper has a long range comlink, and there's a TIE flying overhead, and the troopers have a way to clearly indicate their position to the the TIE Pilot so he doesn't blast them by mistake... yeah the players should be worried...

You dont necessarily have to be targeted by large scale artillery to be effected - some of those blast craters from WWII guns are quite impressive. The blast radius would be enough to mess up someones day without being directly hit by the shell.

You dont necessarily have to be targeted by large scale artillery to be effected - some of those blast craters from WWII guns are quite impressive. The blast radius would be enough to mess up someones day without being directly hit by the shell.

But the Artillery does need a method of locating you and/or reason to strike your location. It's a little narratively odd to have a battery just up and spot 5 people and drop a dozen shells on em.

Though from an encounter design perspective I think the idea of "The artillery is striking your postion, you need to do something to get clear" would be handled more like an environmental effect rather then a direct attack from vehicle to person.

But the Artillery does need a method of locating you and/or reason to strike your location. It's a little narratively odd to have a battery just up and spot 5 people and drop a dozen shells on em.

True enough - I was speaking from a purely mechanical standpoint.

Although I did see a movie last night - The Battle of Sevastopol, about that woman russian sniper that racked up something like 300+ kills. The Sniper and her spotter were crossing a field to get into position, and the spotter hit a trip-wire that launched a flare. And then seconds later the Nazi artillery just blasted the bajeezeous out of the general area. It was actually a kind of cool "Oh crap" moment for the pair.

I'll have to steal that for the future, perhaps.

But the Artillery does need a method of locating you and/or reason to strike your location. It's a little narratively odd to have a battery just up and spot 5 people and drop a dozen shells on em.

True enough - I was speaking from a purely mechanical standpoint.

Although I did see a movie last night - The Battle of Sevastopol, about that woman russian sniper that racked up something like 300+ kills. The Sniper and her spotter were crossing a field to get into position, and the spotter hit a trip-wire that launched a flare. And then seconds later the Nazi artillery just blasted the bajeezeous out of the general area. It was actually a kind of cool "Oh crap" moment for the pair.

I'll have to steal that for the future, perhaps.

That IS a fantastic scenario isn't it?

It's Rule of Cool for me. If getting though an enemy barrage is a cool part of the plot, then fine.

But in movies, neither the hero or the villain gets obliterated by targeting him with artillery fire. It's no fun if Darth Vader pops up and is promptly annihilated by an X-Wing squadron.

The Hoth sequence is a good example, where vehicles get blown up, minions bite the bullet and the hero leaps free to bring down the big hulking enemy vehicle with cheese wire and silly string. (And if he'd have put a few more XP into Move, he wouldn't have even needed the tow cable...)

I hope so as Michael back is good at blowing things up in an amusing way, whatever else he may be.

Warning! Warning! Thread going off topic.

Depends - are we talking The Rock and Armageddon era Bay or are we talking Transformers Bay? One is entertaining and fun despite being as stupid as a sack of hammers. The other is a relentlessly overlong slog through unidentifiable robots in a mess of editing and writing, with only slow and lingering shots on Megan Fox's ass being a bright point amongst the disaster.

One I will gleefully watch as a guilty pleasure. The other, I'll avoid like the Black Death.

The Rock. Bad Boys, and Armageddon Michael Bay.

I'm actually partial to The Island...it's about the only Bay movie I've liked.

Starting to turn me off to running, they want to make it DnDish with mechanics or style. Also is death GM descretion? Or based on minion, group, rival nemisis? It can seem to hard to die or live basd on GMs choice on threshold limits or hit by X.

Speak to your group. Say, "This game is NOT DnD, and this works totally differently than DnD. If you want this to work as DnD, then there are better games for you. Do you want to play DnD star wars, or narrative star wars?" Then, depending on their answer, try again, or find a new group. If they want DnD Star Wars, then Saga edition is probably better game for them than FFG Star Wars. AFAIK Saga Edition still is good star wars game. (See end of this post for dew thoughts about your group)

AFAIK FFG SW is full of GM discretion things (IMO because that is only way to achieve the fast paced movie feeling). Anyway, I don't want to kill my players PCs. Sometimes I have wanted my own PC to die, because his story has found its perfect end. And sometimes I have seen it on other PCs. But, everything in FFG Star Wars should be seen through narrative magnifying glass. If PCs story arch is at point where his/her death is the optimal solution, then he/she should die. Alway remember: What is dramatic and entertaining?

I believe that if your players understand the narrative concept of game and they trust that you are GM whose goal is to have a fun game with players, they won't have problems with character death. They know that you won't kill the character just because you can. Also, IMO in narrative systems GM alone should never alone decide a character death, it should always be cooperative decision between GM and player. Players who are in gamistic or simulationistic (see forge GNS theory (and its criticism)) mindset will probably have problems with narrative system. Because they have different expectations and needs at the moment.

Difference between narrative and classical RPG system: in classical systems character dies when his hitpoints go to zero. In narrative systems character die when it's most dramatic.

From those posts you have made I have understood that you have quite a few problems with your group in this game. So I think it is possible they don't like the narrative style of this system (or any narrative system). Maybe that is the root of your problem. If your players expect Pathfinder in space, don't try to give them Edge of the Empire. Find other players who have different expectations, and everyone will be happier. (But remember not to break your friendships with members of your current group.)

And little side rail: What happens when all PCs reach their wound thresholds? Everyone of them is unconscious, so enemy can capture them and lock them up. It would be kind of cool setup. "[continuing playing after a 5 minute break after last player went over his wound threshold] You wake up in a small room. You only have your clothes and some rudimentary first aid stuff on floor so you can give yourselves first aid so you won't bleed to death. You hear the guard behind the door: 'You will be interrogated and tortured tomorrow, don't die before it.' then you hear him walk away. What do you do?" In classical games that would have been TPK, but in this game it is a cool twist.

I'm actually partial to The Island...it's about the only Bay movie I've liked.

Shia: Optimus... no... you can't be dead................. this is stupid...THIS IS SO STUPID.

Bay: Not it's not!

Shia: Yes it is! It's stupid!

Bay: Not it's not stupid!

Shia: It is stupid! So Stupid!

Bay: It's only stupid if it doesn't make money!

- Actual argument on the set of Transformers 2.

I'm actually partial to The Island...it's about the only Bay movie I've liked.

Shia: Optimus... no... you can't be dead................. this is stupid...THIS IS SO STUPID.

Bay: Not it's not!

Shia: Yes it is! It's stupid!

Bay: Not it's not stupid!

Shia: It is stupid! So Stupid!

Bay: It's only stupid if it doesn't make money!

- Actual argument on the set of Transformers 2.

I wonder if Michael Bay ever saw the treatment he got on South Park (Imaginationland):

The Government: "We were wondering if you had any ideas we could use to help us figure out the terrorist plot?"

Bay: "How about this? An 18-wheeler spins out of control and it's all, like, craaawww! craasssshhh! boooommmm!"

TG: "?"

Bay: "Okay, how about a giant CG building and it explodes and it's all kapooowww! splooossshh! kaarrraaaannnggg!"

TG: "Those aren't 'ideas', those are special effects."

Bay: "I don't...I don't know the difference."

TG: "We know you don't...get him out of here!"

I'm actually partial to The Island...it's about the only Bay movie I've liked.

The remake of Parts: The Clonus Horror?

I'm still not sure wether or not to go ahead with this, but it seems reasonable. Although it can bring on PC death very quickly if you're unlucky wich kind of spits in the face of the rest of the damage mechanics.

It would also deter PCs to ever interact with vehicles on a personal scale, wich may make things less interesting overall.

When it comes to the deaths of NPCs, that is entirely up to the GM to decide how narrative to be.

If you want your NPCs to die and not even leave behind a pink mist, so there’s no Proof of Death, then feel free to do so.

But the rules you choose to apply to your NPCs do not necessarily have to be applied to the PCs.

For example, if a PC in your game should ever happen to get hit by a vehicle weapon and receive 60 points of personal-scale damage, you could potentially take the player aside and ask them how they want to handle the situation.

You could explain what has happened in the past when NPCs got fried like this, and do they want to have their character just disappear and leave no trace behind, or do you want to give them a GM fiat to “jump out of the main blast at the last moment, thus only being very badly burned all over, but technically still alive”?

Just because something happens one way to NPCs doesn’t necessarily mean that the same event would have to have the same consequences when applied to PCs. You would hope that they would be able to properly role play such a massive event in their life, but it is your choice as to how to handle that.

I'm actually partial to The Island...it's about the only Bay movie I've liked.

Shia: Optimus... no... you can't be dead................. this is stupid...THIS IS SO STUPID.

Bay: Not it's not!

Shia: Yes it is! It's stupid!

Bay: Not it's not stupid!

Shia: It is stupid! So Stupid!

Bay: It's only stupid if it doesn't make money!

- Actual argument on the set of Transformers 2.

I wonder if Michael Bay ever saw the treatment he got on South Park (Imaginationland):

The Government: "We were wondering if you had any ideas we could use to help us figure out the terrorist plot?"

Bay: "How about this? An 18-wheeler spins out of control and it's all, like, craaawww! craasssshhh! boooommmm!"

TG: "?"

Bay: "Okay, how about a giant CG building and it explodes and it's all kapooowww! splooossshh! kaarrraaaannnggg!"

TG: "Those aren't 'ideas', those are special effects."

Bay: "I don't...I don't know the difference."

TG: "We know you don't...get him out of here!"

........... actually.....that was fairly accurate....

When they did the location scout that's basically what happened....

"OK the f**** helicopter can come down and crash here.... oh and we can have the village and s*** over there and just blow all that f**** s**** to f***** hell. Just f**** fire everywhere. And we'll use that road as the place to CG in the beach and the hovercraft can come up and the tanks and s*** can just f**** roll up over all this s*** to there and shoot at all that s**** just crushooom!"

I think he may have cussed more but I'm not far off.